Seriously... This is worth the read. Watch as Swordmaster3000 goes from heavy FPS dips and CTD's entering the Institute to stability and happiness.
Spoiler:
Show
Unique NPC's post/problems Thirdstorm Sent 21 May 2017 - 03:03 PM @Swordmaster3000, No Annoyance at all, got flooded with PM's, posts and Discord messages, mod this large, plagued with some download issues was overwhelming. I tried building the FAQ to help and keep adding, so if I pushed towards that, it's why.
It looks like this got straightened out, but if you've not got it sorted and still willing to try post a new bug report. Regardless PM'ed and Kudo's send for sticking with it. Thirdstorm There was an issue with 4 of the second round of BA2's uploaded, seemed to effect some people, and not others, but it seems resolved now.
Download links:
Swordmaster3000 Sent 23 May 2017 - 08:32 AM Oh, that's really nice, thank you! No, the problem wasn't solved before this conversation, I deinstalled the mod and my plan was to wait, until a new version comes out... Well anyway thank you again (can't thank you enough), I will try these versions right away and give you a detailed report if something happens.
Edit: I forgot to mention something (May have already mentioned it, but to be sure): I get serious framedrops when walking through the ruins of Boston. I think the raiders cause these framedrops. I only used the 2k (normal, not the performance one) version that should be fine with my PC setup. I even use the Optimized Textures Mod. This issue is not as bad as the original bug (Institute CTD), but it's very annoying. I may also just be mistaken and my graphics card is really to weak, but soon I'll get a new one so I can test out if this problem is really one of my setup. I will test out all the versions provided carefully, but I currently have quite some real life s*** to do so I'd say until Friday I should have made some usable results Thirdstorm If you wait a couple days (PM me if you don't see a new message) I'm finishing of a new set of standard texture packs, including a 1k, 1k performance, 2k, 2k performance... etc..
And I get bad FPS dips in Downtown even with my mod disabled, next time you’re in Downtown w/ Unique installed make a save, walk in a straight line to a building then Quit, disable Unique and see what the FPS difference when you start back up doing the same thing, good "baseline" and I do that allot to test texture packs.
Swordmaster3000 Sent 23 May 2017 - 11:34 AM Hmmm... I'll try that right away, but first I want to see if the Institute is still buggy. As said, my time is sadly quite limited right now and I had no time to test that until now.
Thirdstorm Sent 23 May 2017 - 03:02 PM not a problem at all Swordmaster3000 Ok, the institute CTD is sitll there... I wish I could tell you more but... you know, classic CTD, no error messages, nothing. Could I send you some log files that can help you help me?
I had exceptional performance in the wastelands though. Even in Sanctuary, where my 19 "Settlers" dwell nothing but stable and smooth 60 FPS (synced to my screen) Ah, nearly forgot to mention that I'm currently using the console plus.
Thirdstorm Sent 23 May 2017 - 05:48 PM did you disable the texture pack only? (move, rename, delete?)A Are your settlers named or "Settler"? How are you entering / exiting the institute? mind giving load order and PC specs?
Swordmaster3000 Oh damn, sry for not replying so long... Fallout is working quite fine WITH your mod installed. As said, I'm using the console plus right now and the framedrops in the downtown are there, but they don't happen as often, as with the 2k normal Version. And that's acceptable for me right now.
Yes, I disabled the textures and went to sanctuary and yes their skins where pink. I tried this two times now, but what I also tried is traveling to the Institute without the textures activated and the CTD still happened, so I guess it's not a file corruption issue of the ba2.
The settlers are not named "Settler" when your mod is active, they get thier unique Names just as it should be.
So I played WITHOUT Unique NPCs until I got into the Institute. After I finished everything in there I went out and installed your mod, so I don't have to go back into the Institute so soon. The way I tried to get in is via fast travel. I click on the map icon of the Institute the loading screen pops up and then it crashes. It doesn't matter what your location was before traveling into the Institute. PC Specs:
I'm using Mod Organizer which is using LOOT to sort the plugins (as you probably might already know, but to be sure)
So my guess is that there is one or more mods in my loadorder that are conflicting with Unique NPCs.
Swordmaster3000 Sent 26 May 2017 - 05:07 AM Ah, a new version, I'll run some tests right away!
Test Results: Used textures: 1k Normal
It looks like the 2k really was to much for my setup, got sweet and smooth FPS in the downtown now. The lags/Framedrops are rare, which is acceptable for now, for I'll upgrade my hardware soon.
The Institute CTD is sadly still persistent, and I'm asking you to please tell me what to do now...
Thirdstorm Sent 26 May 2017 - 10:55 PM Glad the new Texture set is smooth!
Question, where are you entering and Exiting the Institute, and mind posting your load order? (any Institute mods?)
None of my testers (or Joe or I) have been able to reproduce the institute thing
Swordmaster3000 Sent 27 May 2017 - 03:33 AM Ok, well, most times I tested this, I traveled form Sanctuary, but also from other various locations, to make sure it has nothing to do with the location you travel from. Load Order
So, I will not change anything with my loadorder or mods and not install new ones until this issue is solved.
Thirdstorm Sent 27 May 2017 - 05:00 PM 1) please don't take offense, your load order needs some TLC
Take a look @ the stuff below, and after you read the Gambit sticky and the mod page let me know what question you have., Load order (Copied from Raider Overhaul)
Questions about load order and patches?
Spoiler:
Show
Don't take this personally, a couple people have before. This is Seriously just a PSA.
LOOT does not sort load orders Properly, PERIOD!! This is an often debated issue, but it's a fact, people have posted dozens of Load orders during bug reports or help posts proving it.
It will "broad brush" normally put them in an order that resolves Master / Dependency, but it should not be considered a "resolver of all conflicts".
Everyone should take the time, if you have more than 10 mods, to understand and learn the basics of load orders.
Two great resources below: 1)FO4 Load order and enhanced performance by Cybertard Good tutorial, it's one of the resources I used to learn the game. 2)Armorsmith Extended by Gambit77 I don't care if you use Armorsmith or not, check out the 5th post, stickied with spoilers. Gambit77 updates his posted load order frequently, and he is a Master at sorting.
Swordmaster3000 Sent 28 May 2017 - 11:24 AM Well, thanks... I'll defnetly stick to that! In the end it's always the user who is causing the problem, isn't it? In this case it was my lack of knowledge about loadorders... It's a shame LOOT doesn't sort esps... In Skyrim it did sort the esps and I thought it would also do that in FO4 So... Ähm... Is there some tool that is able to sort the esps or do I really have to do that myselt... That would be s shitload of work... And I don't even have that many mods, how do you sort them? I don't think you sorted them one by one... I think you mentioned somewhere that you have about 500 plugins. Now that would be a real shitload of work sort non automatic. Again I can't thank you enough for your patience and help
Edit: Just found out that Wyre Bash is available for FO4, too! I hope it works with MO... If not, I will switch to Wyre Bash
Thirdstorm Sent 28 May 2017 - 01:03 PM
In the end it's always the user who is causing the problem, isn't it? In this case it was my lack of knowledge about loadorders... It's a shame LOOT doesn't sort esps... In Skyrim it did sort the esps and I thought it would also do that in FO4
Lol not always, in fact someone posted a legit bug I am running down, and I don't mean to offend, it's just some aspects of modding are awesome, others are less fun (load order management) but so critical for everything to work well together.
Regarding Load order, check out the 2 links in the spoiler one reply ago from me, the Gambit77's stickied post give a great "example" and "FO4 Load order and enhanced performance by Cybertard" is awesome, great example, tutorial / explanation.
Swordmaster3000 Sent 28 May 2017 - 01:08 PM Yes, yes, I checked that out, but as said a huge load of work sorting all that plugins by hand... I'll test out what Wrye Bash does to my loadorder Ah, and I'm currently switching back to NMM
Edit: Wrye Bash doesn't sort plugins... Great... Time to sort some plugins according to the guides you posted... Why is there no tool that can do that correctly... I found out that LOOT is accualy able to sort the esps, maybe it was just the MO version that didn't work... I also took a look at the masterlist of the latest LOOT thread and it seems rather short compared to the Skyrim masterlist...
I'm working on that messy load order of mine right now and I would like to know where I should put your mod... What mods should load before/after?
PS: You don't need to write something about offending me in every reply. I'm not so easily offended...
Thirdstorm Sent 28 May 2017 - 11:24 PM
PS: You don't need to write something about offending me in every reply. I'm not so easily offended...
Lol... I have had a couple people loose their (*@(@ over load orders, one threatened to report me, so it seems to be a hot button issue with some people... Trying to error on the side of not driving people away!
Regarding Load orders generally... Ok LOOT is a good basis, let it sort and do it's thing....
I would then check out the Gambit/LO Enhanced thing, while having your plugin list copied into a NotePad++ or Word Document.
The first few times I hand sorted I made "breaks" for each section to help me visualize it, moved the mods into those groups, then sorted the groups themselves (small chunks).. Take a while the first time, but gets fast!
Swordmaster3000 Sent 29 May 2017 - 02:48 AM Ah... Well, didn't expect people go crazy because of load orders... I did sort them yesterday and it roughly needed two hours of "work"... I can imagine that for some people that IS much, but to be honest that's nothing for me. I set contless hours into dust to get the old Skyrim, not the SE Skyrim, to "run" and even then it was more stumbling than running... I ended up playing around with the mods more than accualy plaing the game... Ok, enough I'm brabbling.
Well, I did not only sort my load order, but also sorted my install order (It made things easier in fact). Now it does run faster, especially in the looks menu, the loading times are sadly the same, and until now it also seems to have fixed my random CTD which I sometimes got, but that needs more in game hours to be tested...
Well the Institute CTD is sadly still there... and I have no clue why the hell this is happening New Load order:
Edit: Should I ask Gambit77 about load orders? I'm unexperienced with them and I'm quite certain that I made some mistakes when sorting my plugins
Thirdstorm Sent Yesterday, 09:14 PM First really glad its faster.... Didn't do Skyrim but seriously addicted to FO4 for understand that! Would not be shocked if your CTD's are down by 90% (for me it seems directly proportional to load time, higher the load time, the more random CTD's)
Second mind trying Unique @ the bottom, or right above RRTV Condo?
Third if it's still present after that mind testing with just Unique and CBBE for one entrance into the Institute?
Thanks again for helping me try to to help you
PS. Only load order changes I would suggest: Build items near top under Sims *FunctionalDisplays-Collectibles.esp *FunctionalDisplays.esp *FunctionalDisplays-AID-Vanilla.esp *FunctionalDisplays-MISC-Vanilla.esp *FunctionalDisplays-Patch-DLC-ALL.esp Overhauls near bottom: CombatZoneRestored.esp etc.
NPC Mods under hair/face mods: DRHNPCsAreNotCartoonsAIO.esp etc.
Swordmaster3000 Sent Today, 02:30 AM Now, now, That is what I call a helpful reply! I applied your suggested changes to my load order and tested it out aaaaand ta-daa. I can happily report that the Institute CTD has been fixed due to load order sorting! I humbly suggest that you include the made experiences in this conversation in the FAQ section. To make it as clear as possible I did EXACTLY sort my load order as you suggested above. I did not test just CBBE and Unique NPCs because it wasn't necessary, but if you want it tested anyway, I could do that for you, just tell me in the next reply.
I also ran an extensive test in the downtown again. The results were satisfying, but not perfect. There were still some lags and framedrops, but I'm now quite sure that these only happen when the game is loading new mobs or NPCs because after some seconds of of running around in the same area the framerate gets as smooth as it can get. And that was during a thundersorm with a bunch of raiders and super mutants nearby.
Thirdstorm Sent Today, 07:56 PM Gosh I wish I could give you another Kudos! Seriously thanks for taking the time to get this sorted, I don't often help people this much, but you were clearly invested and it made it easy to keep trying!
Thanks, I think I will do Exactly that, great suggestion!
Kudo's to SwordMaster3000, both for taking the time, and suggesting sharing this, I have tried helping countless DOZENS who refuse to budge on Loard Orders, one trying to convince me changing Load orders (not removal but moving order) causes save corrupting.
I support several other large mods, and in the end, the root of 19/20+ problems comes down to load order and conflict resolution.
I have been over and over this. and I am still getting CTDs while fast traveling to the institute. one apparent thing that I am not clear on is, I notice quite a lot of conflicts between RaiderOverhaul12.4 and uniqueNPCs in FO4Edit, along with bettersettlers2.0replacer FOMOD; but aside from that, I have moved everything around to where I think they should be most efficient and cause the least number of conflicts, or at the very least, end up with the mod I want as the last conflict. But I'm still getting CTDs when fast traveling to the institute. can someone maybe help push me in the right direction?
and here is where I am now after 3 hrs in FO4Edit, but my game still CTDs when fast traveling to the institute and I can not figure this issue out. I have tried to minimize conflicts (red) and multiple overwrites wherever possible, but I am still very new to this and the issue could very well be staring me in the face and I'm just not seeing it?
It's more like a tool for making a magic gun. LOOT is a great way to MANUALLY assign load order priorities, within LOOT, so that you can do it with one click, later. And it does learn some basic stuff from other users' experience. It's a lot of work - more than without LOOT imho - I think it's worth it, but it's probably not for everyone.
(BTW I love LOOT to pieces for other games, but I can't get it to work right with MO2 - it just scrambles my load order. And TBH it's easier to just do it manually in MO anyway.)
Much more important than LOOT: FO4Edit (xEdit) FO4Edit shows you exactly what's overwriting what with what, and makes it easy for you to decide what's what. (Wait, what?)
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Here is the load order I started with:
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp=1
ArmorKeywords.esm=1
SimSettlements.esm=1
TrueStormsFO4.esm=1
four_play_resources.esm=1
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarbor.esp=1
TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp=1
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarborExtraRads.esp=1
ImmersiveScrapping_SeasonPass.esp=1
dD-Enhanced Blood.esp=1
Faster Terminal Displays (20x).esp=1
Reverb and Ambiance Overhaul.esp=1
Smoke-able Cigars.esp=1
Animated Drinking.esp=1
AA Better Companions - No Conflicts.esp=1
More Smarter Companions Mod.esp=1
Dogmeat behavior reflagged.esp=1
Pet - Call -Feed Dogmeat.esp=1
CompanionsGoHome_A.esp=1
EFF.esp=1
BrighterSettlementLights.esp=1
Give Me That Bottle.esp=1
Passthrough.esp=1
DarkerNights.esp=1
DarkerNightsDetection.esp=1
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp=1
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp=1
FAR.esp=1
RainofBrassPetals.esp=1
LongRangeBulletHoles.esp=1
NightPerson_NoNightVision-FarHarbor.esp=1
Radiant Clouds and Fogs.esp=1
Grasslands - Unhealthy.esp=1
ITPCC.esp=1
AtomCatGarage.esp=1
CrimeTown.esp=1
DeadAirplane.esp=1
Diamond City Enhanced.esp=1
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp=1
PlaneWreck.esp=1
TrainBar.esp=1
BTInteriors_Project.esp=1
ImmersiveVendors.esp=1
CBBE.esp=1
Unique NPCs.esp=1
Unique NPCs-LMSE Equipment.esp=1
BetterSettlers.esp=1
BS NS BFS Merged Patch.esp=0
BetterSettlersMortalPack.esp=1
BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp=1
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp=1
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp=1
BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp=1
KSHairdos.esp=1
Unique NPCs-Stm_DiamondCity.esp=1
FO4 NPCs Travel.esp=1
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp=1
SkjAlert_All_DLC.esp=1
dD-Realistic Ragdoll Force.esp=1
DeadBodyCollision.esp=1
Ammo.esp=1
chem redux.esp=1
Realistic Roads 2.0 Black.esp=1
UniquePlayer.esp=1
UniqueFollowers.esp=1
keke-bu All-in-one Pack_1.1.7.esp=1
THBrows.esp=1
LovingPiper-TrueReporterSE.esp=1
LovingCait.esp=1
GhastlyHancock.esp=1
Edit_Hancock.esp=1
Mama Murphy blind fresh eyebr..esp=1
Mama Murphys Chair Redone.esp=1
Pretty Scarlett.esp=1
RaiderOverhaul.esp=1
ImmersiveGenericDialogues.esp=1
BetterModDescriptions.esp=1
3dscopes.esp=1
3dscopes-AddToSpawnList.esp=1
3dscopes-framework.esp=1
3dscopes-FarHarbor.esp=1
3dscopes-NukaWorld.esp=1
K9TacticalHarness.esp=1
NukaRadBans.esp=1
WBO.esp=1
PAMS.esp=1
FO4_AnimationsByLeito.esp=1
FP_VanillaFudge.esp=1
four_play.esp=1
and here is where I am now after 3 hrs in FO4Edit, but my game still CTDs when fast traveling to the institute and I can not figure this issue out. I have tried to minimize conflicts (red) and multiple overwrites wherever possible, but I am still very new to this and the issue could very well be staring me in the face and I'm just not seeing it?
DLCRobot.esm=1
DLCworkshop01.esm=1
DLCCoast.esm=1
DLCworkshop02.esm=1
DLCworkshop03.esm=1
DLCNukaWorld.esm=1
Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp=1
ArmorKeywords.esm=1
SimSettlements.esm=1
TrueStormsFO4.esm=1
four_play_resources.esm=1
3dscopes.esp=1
3dscopes-AddToSpawnList.esp=1
3dscopes-framework.esp=1
3dscopes-FarHarbor.esp=1
3dscopes-NukaWorld.esp=1
ImmersiveScrapping_SeasonPass.esp=1
NightPerson_NoNightVision-FarHarbor.esp=1
ITPCC.esp=1
dD-Enhanced Blood.esp=1
dD-Realistic Ragdoll Force.esp=1
DeadBodyCollision.esp=1
BetterModDescriptions.esp=1
PAMS.esp=1
Faster Terminal Displays (20x).esp=1
Give Me That Bottle.esp=1
Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp=1
TrainBar.esp=1
four_play.esp=1
BTInteriors_Project.esp=1
More Smarter Companions Mod.esp=1
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp=1
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp=1
BrighterSettlementLights.esp=1
FAR.esp=1
RainofBrassPetals.esp=1
LongRangeBulletHoles.esp=1
Passthrough.esp=1
ImmersiveGenericDialogues.esp=1
ImmersiveVendors.esp=1
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp=1
THBrows.esp=1
KSHairdos.esp=1
AA Better Companions - No Conflicts.esp=1
Dogmeat behavior reflagged.esp=1
Pet - Call -Feed Dogmeat.esp=1
CompanionsGoHome_A.esp=1
EFF.esp=1
Reverb and Ambiance Overhaul.esp=1
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarbor.esp=1
TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp=1
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarborExtraRads.esp=1
Radiant Clouds and Fogs.esp=1
DarkerNights.esp=1
DarkerNightsDetection.esp=1
Realistic Roads 2.0 Black.esp=1
Grasslands - Unhealthy.esp=1
AtomCatGarage.esp=1
CrimeTown.esp=1
DeadAirplane.esp=1
Diamond City Enhanced.esp=1
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp=1
Unique NPCs-Stm_DiamondCity.esp=1
PlaneWreck.esp=1
SkjAlert_All_DLC.esp=1
Animated Drinking.esp=1
Smoke-able Cigars.esp=1
FP_VanillaFudge.esp=1
FO4_AnimationsByLeito.esp=1
CBBE.esp=1
UniquePlayer.esp=1
UniqueFollowers.esp=1
keke-bu All-in-one Pack_1.1.7.esp=1
RaiderOverhaul.esp=1
Unique NPCs.esp=1
BetterSettlers.esp=1
Unique NPCs-LMSE Equipment.esp=1
BS NS BFS Merged Patch.esp=0
BetterSettlersMortalPack.esp=1
BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp=1
BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp=1
BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp=1
FO4 NPCs Travel.esp=1
Ammo.esp=1
chem redux.esp=1
Pretty Scarlett.esp=1
LovingPiper-TrueReporterSE.esp=1
LovingCait.esp=1
GhastlyHancock.esp=1
Edit_Hancock.esp=1
Mama Murphy blind fresh eyebr..esp=1
Mama Murphys Chair Redone.esp=1
K9TacticalHarness.esp=1
NukaRadBans.esp=1
WBO.esp=1
It's more like a tool for making a magic gun. LOOT is a great way to MANUALLY assign load order priorities, within LOOT, so that you can do it with one click, later. And it does learn some basic stuff from other users' experience. It's a lot of work - more than without LOOT imho - I think it's worth it, but it's probably not for everyone.
(BTW I love LOOT to pieces for other games, but I can't get it to work right with MO2 - it just scrambles my load order. And TBH it's easier to just do it manually in MO anyway.)
Much more important than LOOT: FO4Edit (xEdit)
FO4Edit shows you exactly what's overwriting what with what, and makes it easy for you to decide what's what. (Wait, what?)