This mod has become a massive help given the other mods I'm using which makes my game both smarter, harder to kill, and you get the idea. The mod though been very helpful to deal with the better-equipped super mutants and behemoths.
A generally well concieved mod which is in dire need of some QoL changes to allow it to become the main way that players engage with the game.
Among the biggest concerns is that the pricing and effectiveness of the vanilla mod makes the non-lethal option extremely expensive to maintain as the price of Gas Grenades, Gas Mines and Stun Grenades are prohibitively costly despite NPCs requiring multiple applications in order to cause a KO. This is largely due to all NPCs having 100 fatigue and each of these consumables doing less than 50 fatigue damage. That means if you're not heavily invested into Bartering then it will cost you beyond 1500 caps to KO a single NPC with Grenades or Mines.
The Tranq Dartgun is equally as ineffective as it takes multiple hits to KO a target and has a lengthy reload time meaning the Stun Gun is the only viable option but since it does only 5 fatigue damage per hit you need to land quite a few hits for it to achieve a KO which can often result in the death of weaker NPCs before that happens.
Finally, it appears that reverse pick pocketing grenades does not cause any KO effects which is quite disappointing.
But, if you're happy to enough to open GECK here's some suggestions for improving the feel of the equipment. Load up the STUN.esp as the Active File and filter by "STUN" and selected *All. On the sorting columns order by Form Type to easily fine the following files. Look for the following ENCH forms:
Since all NPCs have 100 fatigue which regenerates at a fixed rate this will make the game ungodly easy since STUN was never designed to modify the fatigue damaged by anything like Level or SPECIAL or NPC stats. Consequently everything from a Behemoth to a Radroach will take the same amount of Fatigue damage in order to KO. Not ideal. I dunno if the author is considering an update but a more robust method of calculating fatigue damage would be advisable. In any event the logic behind these changes is that chemimal themed weapons will KO for longer compared to concussive or energy based ones. However the latter will KO faster but for a shorter duration while the chemical themed ones are a DoT with longer KO duration. This makes the Stun weaponry useful for faster take downs when a threat is serious while Chemical weapons are better suited for ambushes.
Set the following properties: STUNpBaseEffectDamageFatigueScriptRandom10 to Magnitude 2 for all ENCH forms
STUNpEnchTranquilizer - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 20, Duration 10 STUNpEnchStunProd - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 30, Duration 0 STUNpEnchStunGun - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 20, Duration 0 STUNpEnchStunGrenade - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 110, Duration 0 STUNpEnchEther - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 15, Duration 14
What these will do is generally make the KO duration more determinisitic and will result in a roughly 120s KO for Gas and Tranqulisers but a 60s KO for stun gun, grenade and prod. So if you want to keep them down for longer you'll need to zap them some more while they're KOd. You could also modify the price of the gear and weights but I think thats more of a personal choice while these suggested changes really do help STUN to have a little more character and viability.
So I knocked out a slaver with stun baton and then tied it up with a handcuff. Out of curiosity I untied it to see if it'll stand up and attack me. It started talking right away but remained in the tied up position. I waited around for a couple minutes but it still remained in the same position. Would it have eventually got up if I waited long enough? Like hours?
I believe I encountered this bug, whereas tied NPCs won't stand up and resume their normal behavior after being untied. It only happens in Fallout 3 (never had it in New Vegas), and I don't think waiting would fix it. I couldn't find an obvious solution at the time, but, since the issue wasn't critical and not always reproducable, I decided to release v0.3 without fixing it.
I'm still planning to release v1.0 for Fallout 3 (after it's released for New Vegas), and I'll use that opportunity to look into this bug closer.
Is there news about the new 1.0 version for Fallout 3 about this mod? I actually find it funny to use and wanted to use it but when I read it causes bugs with people not doing their stuff after they're getting tied up and free again I felt I just wait for the update. Are there any news about fixes or some release? I really appreciate your work and would like to use the mod.
Waiting won't fix it...but reloading the game at a state where the npc is still tied fixed that issue for me. Mayb loading game set some parameters back to normal functioning state/value .(if so, looking into this might solve this bug)
i'd steer clear of this mod. not sure why but with it install none of the menu options show up and your cursor vanishes making it impossible to go past the main menu
I have been running experiments of my own with success along different lines.
J3x had created Enclave Commander which featured an ability to capture hostiles (humans), if their health became too low. But it was unfinished and prisoners became hostile after a certain period of time and unkillable in some instances.This type of thing might be of interest to you in your mod as you ductape your adversaries, what next to do with them? What will the game eventually do with them?
I edited Enclave Commander and added an interrogation feature which removes the actor from the game world when the interrogation is complete to get around this issue.:
Enclave Commander 90 No Free Ride http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/15462/?
To get factions to be not hostile against the player (used in case of a mistake), also includes a "weapon" to get wrongfully irate persons friendly again:
The De-Enemyifier by Drayk Cannon http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/7635/?
Of course that mod leads to some interesting possibilities, which the following mod does in offering a percentage of failure or success in getting hostiles friendly, hence the "conversion" possibility. Hostiles converted will not attack the player and initially opening their inventory, a "donation," allowing for a more pacifist type game based around Gospel Christianity, (other modders can develop that template in various other directions); the point being another option not to having to slay all in the Wasteland.
Arwen has also tackled the fatigue aspect in her realism tweaks No sure of the exact details but using her mod it is possible to lower a hostiles fatigue to the point they drop then one can effect (loot ?) and escape without killing that enemy.
I really, really, really want to use this mod but it seems to be causing CTDs for me :( I'm using FOOK2, Real Injuries and Marts Monster Mod and Fallout Re-Animated as well as some other misc mods and when I run FO3 Edit it's not showing any conflicts at all. Any idea what it could be?
Welp, upon further inspection it was actually Marts' Mutant Mod. And no matter what I do I can't get it, FOOK2, Real Injuries and Better Living Through Chems to work in harmony so I'm playing without MMM for now. Sorry about that.
I love this, because I can enslave people one at a time with the STUN feature (don't worry, only raiders). But the duct tape doesn't work, the stun gun is WOEFULLY underpowered for anything but a one on one encounter as unlike normal fighting you need to fire, close distance tie up while risking damage the whole time and before companions kill the target. I downloaded a mod called the pacifier with is a laser pistol with 50 points of stun, but it's still hardly game breaking when I'm playing with FWE on very hard. You die from two gunshots, it's a challenge, but I want a realistic retrofuture.
There is one major thing that really, really needs to be patched. Operation Anchorage cannot be completed without killing Chinese Troops. I modded in the gear to tie them up anyway but it messed up some of the scripts and slowed the computer down. Moreover, you need to kill the Outcast traitors at the end to get McGraw and Odin to not be in combat. If you wanted to include a non-violent talk down to Sibley, and that would reset their patterns before you entered the machine and they'd talk about joining Talon Company and such, that would be awesome too. No voice would be fine. You need to make a version of Stun that takes the Chinese troops and list them as non-humans (it is after all a simulation). Anchorage is NOT fun on a pacifist run
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Among the biggest concerns is that the pricing and effectiveness of the vanilla mod makes the non-lethal option extremely expensive to maintain as the price of Gas Grenades, Gas Mines and Stun Grenades are prohibitively costly despite NPCs requiring multiple applications in order to cause a KO. This is largely due to all NPCs having 100 fatigue and each of these consumables doing less than 50 fatigue damage. That means if you're not heavily invested into Bartering then it will cost you beyond 1500 caps to KO a single NPC with Grenades or Mines.
The Tranq Dartgun is equally as ineffective as it takes multiple hits to KO a target and has a lengthy reload time meaning the Stun Gun is the only viable option but since it does only 5 fatigue damage per hit you need to land quite a few hits for it to achieve a KO which can often result in the death of weaker NPCs before that happens.
Finally, it appears that reverse pick pocketing grenades does not cause any KO effects which is quite disappointing.
But, if you're happy to enough to open GECK here's some suggestions for improving the feel of the equipment. Load up the STUN.esp as the Active File and filter by "STUN" and selected *All. On the sorting columns order by Form Type to easily fine the following files. Look for the following ENCH forms:
STUNpEnchTranquilizer
STUNpEnchStunProd
STUNpEnchStunGun
STUNpEnchStunGrenade
STUNpEnchEther
Since all NPCs have 100 fatigue which regenerates at a fixed rate this will make the game ungodly easy since STUN was never designed to modify the fatigue damaged by anything like Level or SPECIAL or NPC stats. Consequently everything from a Behemoth to a Radroach will take the same amount of Fatigue damage in order to KO. Not ideal. I dunno if the author is considering an update but a more robust method of calculating fatigue damage would be advisable. In any event the logic behind these changes is that chemimal themed weapons will KO for longer compared to concussive or energy based ones. However the latter will KO faster but for a shorter duration while the chemical themed ones are a DoT with longer KO duration. This makes the Stun weaponry useful for faster take downs when a threat is serious while Chemical weapons are better suited for ambushes.
Set the following properties:
STUNpBaseEffectDamageFatigueScriptRandom10 to Magnitude 2 for all ENCH forms
STUNpEnchTranquilizer - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 20, Duration 10
STUNpEnchStunProd - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 30, Duration 0
STUNpEnchStunGun - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 20, Duration 0
STUNpEnchStunGrenade - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 110, Duration 0
STUNpEnchEther - Fatigue Damage (Posion) to Magnitude 15, Duration 14
What these will do is generally make the KO duration more determinisitic and will result in a roughly 120s KO for Gas and Tranqulisers but a 60s KO for stun gun, grenade and prod. So if you want to keep them down for longer you'll need to zap them some more while they're KOd. You could also modify the price of the gear and weights but I think thats more of a personal choice while these suggested changes really do help STUN to have a little more character and viability.
I'm still planning to release v1.0 for Fallout 3 (after it's released for New Vegas), and I'll use that opportunity to look into this bug closer.
Mayb loading game set some parameters back to normal functioning state/value .(if so, looking into this might solve this bug)
Do you have a template script like to add fatigue reducers to say a simple police baton, which may KO an actor without killing them?
The problem was being discussed here, I cannot locate the result of that
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1481639-knockout-and-loot-no-more-death/?hl=%2Bfatigue#entry23218418
-----
errata
I have been running experiments of my own with success along different lines.
J3x had created Enclave Commander which featured an ability to capture hostiles (humans), if their health became too low. But it was unfinished and prisoners became hostile after a certain period of time and unkillable in some instances.This type of thing might be of interest to you in your mod as you ductape your adversaries, what next to do with them? What will the game eventually do with them?
I edited Enclave Commander and added an interrogation feature which removes the actor from the game world when the interrogation is complete to get around this issue.:
Enclave Commander 90 No Free Ride
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/15462/?
To get factions to be not hostile against the player (used in case of a mistake), also includes a "weapon" to get wrongfully irate persons friendly again:
The De-Enemyifier by Drayk Cannon
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/7635/?
Of course that mod leads to some interesting possibilities, which the following mod does in offering a percentage of failure or success in getting hostiles friendly, hence the "conversion" possibility. Hostiles converted will not attack the player and initially opening their inventory, a "donation," allowing for a more pacifist type game based around Gospel Christianity, (other modders can develop that template in various other directions); the point being another option not to having to slay all in the Wasteland.
TheWord v12
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/18846
Arwen has also tackled the fatigue aspect in her realism tweaks
No sure of the exact details but using her mod it is possible to lower a hostiles fatigue to the point they drop then one can effect (loot ?) and escape without killing that enemy.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/7565/?
I'm using FOOK2, Real Injuries and Marts Monster Mod and Fallout Re-Animated as well as some other misc mods and when I run FO3 Edit it's not showing any conflicts at all. Any idea what it could be?
There is one major thing that really, really needs to be patched. Operation Anchorage cannot be completed without killing Chinese Troops. I modded in the gear to tie them up anyway but it messed up some of the scripts and slowed the computer down. Moreover, you need to kill the Outcast traitors at the end to get McGraw and Odin to not be in combat. If you wanted to include a non-violent talk down to Sibley, and that would reset their patterns before you entered the machine and they'd talk about joining Talon Company and such, that would be awesome too. No voice would be fine. You need to make a version of Stun that takes the Chinese troops and list them as non-humans (it is after all a simulation). Anchorage is NOT fun on a pacifist run