Early 2023 review: Decent new location for testing your arsenal and gear. This raider bridge town reminded me about very similar (in design and gameplay structure) Raider Bridge and Raider Stronghold mods by Bounty055. But in this case, I didn't have any significant fps drops or problems with unoptimized location. In Bridge Town everything worked as intended and flawlessly. It's another mod which was also used by streetyson and where he had "unplayable" experience, but I absolutely can't agree with this "fact" (previously we have very different playthroughs with this mod). So, I'm starting to think that It's really a problem on his part with low spec-setup, these authors can't optimize their projects for every possible weak or strong PC setup. In some way, this new place feels like "What If" moment from alternative universe, if Arefu settlement was ruled by raiders at some point in time. Don't expect any narrative or background note/logs storytelling, just pure combat experience for people who want to shoot more raiders. Around 10-15 raiders with different weapons (from melee to explosive) and few containers with good loot as a reward for your "wiping the slate clean" mission. Funny observation from me: every interior of raiders houses have very nice design and "cleaned-up" feeling (cleaner than my own apartment while I was on quarantine back in 2020, for sure) which didn't give any sense of "raiders style". It's like some girl from their gang prefered to clean every shack at least few days in a week, huh. It's also even more "polished" than all major towns in the Capital Wasteland. I understand that raiders just occupied this place after killing original inhabitants, but still (to make more sense) either you visit this place right after "invasion" or they really have a maid in their group. Overall, it's good for any potential player, stable and bug-free experience for around 15-20 minutes total (depending on your pace and style of playthrough). Should you try this mod in 2023? Yes, if you liked Bounty055 mods and need new location for combat gameplay. Endorsement from me. Now it's time to finally play WilliamSea's "Nightmare Realm" which was waiting in my active load-out backlog for many months. Review will be posted after completion in the comment section, as always.
I kept getting stutter whenever I got anywhere in the area. Closest I ever got was those vanilla mini car fort things that overlook the bridge, but by then the stutter got horrible, unplayable. Can't see what the problem is. I'm not running any FWE/FOOK/MM or any unusual mod etc. Uninstalled.
I went over this with a fine tooth comb in xEdit out of curiosity. There isn't an excess of fire barrels or lighting fx, but what may be causing stutter is a sheer number of raiders concentrated in one location on this new POI. I'm going to delete half of the raider spawns and see how things play out.
// 24 raiders and 5 wastelanders added to one spot -__- m'kay
Yes they can, without issues. I have not kept up with FO3 cleaners, but If I change the master navmesh, that is a 'identical to master' navmesh change.
If you really want to see if something was changed that should not have been, look at the 'details' tab on the mod selection screen. You can sort the columns by clicking on that column. Then look to see if vanilla game objects have been changed. I try to keep those pretty clean.
Removing: [NAVM:000CA675] (for CarFort [CELL:00000EFE] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -24,19)) Removing: [NAVM:000CA677] (for CarFort [CELL:00000EFE] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -24,19)) Removing: [NAVM:000CA67A] (for CarFort [CELL:00000EFE] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -24,19)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3C02] (for [CELL:00000F0A] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,18)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3C04] (for [CELL:00000F0A] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,18)) Removing: [NAVM:0007732D] (for [CELL:00000F09] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -25,18)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF8] (for [CELL:00000F01] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,19)) Removing: [NAVM:000C7235] (for [CELL:00000F00] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,19)) Removing: [NAVM:000C7237] (for [CELL:00000F00] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,19)) Removing: [NAVM:00077330] (for [CELL:00000EFF] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -25,19)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF5] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF4] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF3] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF2] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF0] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20)) Removing: [REFR:00072D1D] (places RockCanyon13rad82 [STAT:00047A61] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20)) Removing: [NAVM:00075A83] (for [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20)) Removing: [NAVM:00075A84] (for [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20)) Removing: [NAVM:00075A8D] (for [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20)) Removing: [REFR:0006F412] (places OverpassSection01 [STAT:00020159] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20)) Removing: [NAVM:000707F5] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:000707FD] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:0007081C] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:00070821] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:00070822] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:00070825] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:00070826] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:00070827] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:00070828] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21)) Removing: [NAVM:000C3BE8] (for [CELL:00000EF0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,21))
Its navmesh, and most likely where I attached my new navmeshes to the existing, so yes, they would appear to be exactly the same. But you do what-ever makes you happy, just don't complain if the raiders have trouble moving outside the navmeshes I made.
The fact is that the game doesnt need to load the same record twice. The first time it loads is enough for your new navmeshes. I will play with it cleaned, will be back to report.
Removing Navmesh changes would not cause CTD or surprises. When I attach my navmesh to an existing navmesh, the only change is my connection point, so it would appear the same. The only issue you might see is the pathing the bandits take. With the connections removed, they may have trouble going from my new navmesh to the existing navmesh grids. Something you may not see unless you sit and watch them a while, see if they leave the bridge area or not.
Have you ever tried to find an object, let along a navmesh, by its hex numbers? Its unknown which ones are involved. But all of those are around the bridge, so I recommend leaving the changes in. As I stated before and to save you arguing more with me, you can do what-ever you wish with the mod once you download it.
Damn this Maese dude hella condescending.... Acting like the pro of all pro mod makers lol... Jus clean the mod if you want an shut up about it, the author said its intentional...
I'm reinstalling FO3, setting up an over-the-top mod load. And I find myself coming back to this thread.
I just ran LOOT. It threw up NO error warnings regarding ITMs or deleted navmeshes NOR did it flag the mod as dirty.
Here's the thing. Mr. Atorrante there was ARGUING with the creator of the mod about what to clean and what to fix. And that pisses in the face of all modding logic. The modder most likely set things up for a reason. If they are, in fact, a "hack fraud" the community will eventually call them out. More than likely, though, there is some level of competence behind setting up an entire structure complete with hostiles.
It boggles the mind that someone comes along and says "this needs cleaning because I feel it in my bones".
The rule of thumb if you aren't comfortable with someone's mod: it has to be THEIR way, and if you don't like THEIR way you can take the HIGHWAY.
Had to rant there. Sorry. I see this BS plastered all over the Fallout 3 comment sections with nonsense "cleaning reports" and heated debates rooted in ignorance. I just wanted to get that off my chest while I was in the moment.
This is one of those mods that should have more endorsements, There should be more places like this dotted around as this is truly what a large raider settlement would look and feel like
Look at medeviel castles, they were always on a hill. There is a saying in the military, take the high ground. The high ground is always the most defensible and you can see an enemy coming from much further. Try racing up a hill to attack a town and you will be exhausted before you get there. Bullets also travel further downhill than uphill due to gravity, friction and elevation.
37 comments
This raider bridge town reminded me about very similar (in design and gameplay structure) Raider Bridge and Raider Stronghold mods by Bounty055. But in this case, I didn't have any significant fps drops or problems with unoptimized location. In Bridge Town everything worked as intended and flawlessly.
It's another mod which was also used by streetyson and where he had "unplayable" experience, but I absolutely can't agree with this "fact" (previously we have very different playthroughs with this mod). So, I'm starting to think that It's really a problem on his part with low spec-setup, these authors can't optimize their projects for every possible weak or strong PC setup.
In some way, this new place feels like "What If" moment from alternative universe, if Arefu settlement was ruled by raiders at some point in time.
Don't expect any narrative or background note/logs storytelling, just pure combat experience for people who want to shoot more raiders. Around 10-15 raiders with different weapons (from melee to explosive) and few containers with good loot as a reward for your "wiping the slate clean" mission.
Funny observation from me: every interior of raiders houses have very nice design and "cleaned-up" feeling (cleaner than my own apartment while I was on quarantine back in 2020, for sure) which didn't give any sense of "raiders style". It's like some girl from their gang prefered to clean every shack at least few days in a week, huh. It's also even more "polished" than all major towns in the Capital Wasteland. I understand that raiders just occupied this place after killing original inhabitants, but still (to make more sense) either you visit this place right after "invasion" or they really have a maid in their group.
Overall, it's good for any potential player, stable and bug-free experience for around 15-20 minutes total (depending on your pace and style of playthrough).
Should you try this mod in 2023? Yes, if you liked Bounty055 mods and need new location for combat gameplay.
Endorsement from me.
Now it's time to finally play WilliamSea's "Nightmare Realm" which was waiting in my active load-out backlog for many months. Review will be posted after completion in the comment section, as always.
Thank you🙂
Uninstalled.
// 24 raiders and 5 wastelanders added to one spot -__- m'kay
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 899, Removed Records: 30, Elapsed Time: 00:00
If you really want to see if something was changed that should not have been, look at the 'details' tab on the mod selection screen. You can sort the columns by clicking on that column. Then look to see if vanilla game objects have been changed. I try to keep those pretty clean.
Removing: [NAVM:000CA675] (for CarFort [CELL:00000EFE] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -24,19))
Removing: [NAVM:000CA677] (for CarFort [CELL:00000EFE] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -24,19))
Removing: [NAVM:000CA67A] (for CarFort [CELL:00000EFE] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -24,19))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3C02] (for [CELL:00000F0A] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,18))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3C04] (for [CELL:00000F0A] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,18))
Removing: [NAVM:0007732D] (for [CELL:00000F09] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -25,18))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF8] (for [CELL:00000F01] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,19))
Removing: [NAVM:000C7235] (for [CELL:00000F00] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,19))
Removing: [NAVM:000C7237] (for [CELL:00000F00] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,19))
Removing: [NAVM:00077330] (for [CELL:00000EFF] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -25,19))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF5] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF4] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF3] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF2] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BF0] (for [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20))
Removing: [REFR:00072D1D] (places RockCanyon13rad82 [STAT:00047A61] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000EF8] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,20))
Removing: [NAVM:00075A83] (for [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20))
Removing: [NAVM:00075A84] (for [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20))
Removing: [NAVM:00075A8D] (for [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20))
Removing: [REFR:0006F412] (places OverpassSection01 [STAT:00020159] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:00000EF7] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -26,20))
Removing: [NAVM:000707F5] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:000707FD] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:0007081C] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:00070821] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:00070822] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:00070825] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:00070826] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:00070827] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:00070828] (for [CELL:00000EF1] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -28,21))
Removing: [NAVM:000C3BE8] (for [CELL:00000EF0] (in Wasteland "Wasteland" [WRLD:0000003C] at -27,21))
Im looking
The second one is also identical. Has to be removed.
The same with the 3.
I finished them all. All are identical, exactly the same. The mod must be cleaned.
The only issue you might see is the pathing the bandits take. With the connections removed, they may have trouble going from my new navmesh to the existing navmesh grids. Something you may not see unless you sit and watch them a while, see if they leave the bridge area or not.
I just ran LOOT. It threw up NO error warnings regarding ITMs or deleted navmeshes NOR did it flag the mod as dirty.
Here's the thing. Mr. Atorrante there was ARGUING with the creator of the mod about what to clean and what to fix. And that pisses in the face of all modding logic. The modder most likely set things up for a reason. If they are, in fact, a "hack fraud" the community will eventually call them out. More than likely, though, there is some level of competence behind setting up an entire structure complete with hostiles.
It boggles the mind that someone comes along and says "this needs cleaning because I feel it in my bones".
The rule of thumb if you aren't comfortable with someone's mod: it has to be THEIR way, and if you don't like THEIR way you can take the HIGHWAY.
Had to rant there. Sorry. I see this BS plastered all over the Fallout 3 comment sections with nonsense "cleaning reports" and heated debates rooted in ignorance. I just wanted to get that off my chest while I was in the moment.
Look at medeviel castles, they were always on a hill. There is a saying in the military, take the high ground. The high ground is always the most defensible and you can see an enemy coming from much further. Try racing up a hill to attack a town and you will be exhausted before you get there. Bullets also travel further downhill than uphill due to gravity, friction and elevation.