An update on Vortex development

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It's time for a Vortex development update!

Since our last news post back in May we have setup a focus group of around 30 individuals who have been given access to an early build alpha of Vortex using a rudimentary design and UX flow. Tannin has been working with these users, taking on their feedback and patching up bugs that have been found over the past couple of months. At this stage, the core functionality is all done and now it's a matter of rounding off any rough edges and patching up any holes the focus group can find.

While Tannin has been working on the overall functionality of the application, our new UX/UI designer, Kit, who officially began her work at the beginning of October has been working on the overall look and feel. Kit's first task has been to work on the design of Vortex, drawing up wireframes and now mock-ups that eventually Tannin will implement into Vortex. The first of these mock-ups were offered to the focus group for consultation and feedback last week while Kit worked on the rest of the screens that Vortex needs.

I've been reliably informed that, today, Kit has run out of screens to mock up, so these final screens will be in the hands of the focus group by the end of today. We will give the focus group most of a week to provide their feedback on these mock ups. Following that, Kit will spend a few days implementing any necessary changes based on this feedback before they are handed over to Tannin as "final".

From there, Tannin will need to spend some time implementing the new design into the current build of Vortex, which is no small task. The focus group will be provided with these builds as and when they're ready for feedback. After that, it's all touching and shoring things up ready for an official public Alpha release.

Tentatively, we're aiming for a January release date for the open Alpha of Vortex. Naturally, that's subject to change as with all development cycles, but we're quietly confident that we will hit that deadline.

While I've juggled with the idea of providing you all with mock up screens of Vortex to tide you over until then, I think without you being able to actually experience the user flow and experience the software fully, a lot of the context will be lost, which will ultimately mean any feedback you could provide would be superficial (and potentially, negative, without any context to back it up). As such, I think it would be better for all of us if we waited until it was actually possible for you to use it. Then the feedback you provide will be far more useful, and relevant, to us.

Not long now!

438 comments

  1. Fujin92
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    Old designe is better !!! ??????? ?????? ??????!! ??? ??????????!!! ?????? ?? ?????, ???????????? ??????????! ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ? ???????? ? ????. ????? ??? ?????((((( ??????????, ?? ????????? ?????? ??????!!!


    this type of comment doesn't help nor is funny
  2. len4ik
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    Old designe is better !!! ??????? ?????? ??????!! ??? ??????????!!! ?????? ?? ?????, ???????????? ??????????! ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ? ???????? ? ????. ????? ??? ?????((((( ??????????, ?? ????????? ?????? ??????!!!
  3. pixelhate
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    Isn't this thread about Vortex development?
    1. Brabbit1987
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      Well, it is still about Vortex. The whole modpack debate has to do with a feature some people want to be a part of Vortex. I mean, at the very least it's related. XD
  4. rmm200
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    Given that we have a large set of mods installed with NMM 0.63.14, hard links and all, how hard is it going to be to switch over to Vortex?
    what about switching back to NMM?
  5. DFiNo
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    Isn't this thread about Vortex development?


    It started out to be, but it appears......is the term hijacked correct?
  6. HeyYou
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    In response to post #57138511.



    Spoiler:  
    Show





    I really don't understand how one could claim it's not practical. Even just downloading a group of recommended mods is more useful than having to download them individually because it saves time. Steam Workshop essentially does this, and it's very practical.

    Let's say a friend has made a load order and you want to play with the same load order. It's a lot easier and far more practical to have a button that would download all the mods in the load order, then have to do it individually. Even if you still needed to know about modding (like if it isn't able to do everything for you), this still makes the task considerably faster and easier. Can you give me a reason why that isn't practical? And how is it more practical to go to each mod individually to download them in such a case?

    Or another good example. The STEP guide. How is it not practical to have a button that would download all the mods you need? All it's doing is saving time. If you can go a step further and make it so it is able to do more than just download the mods where it's a one-click install, then it's even more practical.

    Modded Minecraft does this and it's the most popular way to mod because of literally how practical it is.
     


    Comparing a beth game to Minecraft, is like comparing a model T to a Bugatti veyron. The games are similar only in superficial ways. There is FAR more going on under the hood in beth games. Pretty much apples vs. hand grenades.
    1. Jpwolf69
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      I thought that some mods requires certain other mods in order for it to work properly and also there are mods that requires them to be placed specifically in the Load Order such as either above or below other mods.

      That is why there is a part on the Mod page called Description. This tells what the mod is and what it is used for and some mods use this as to how to install the mod and where to place it the Load Order. They also tell you how to uninstall the mod as well.

      It is always important to read the Description page before downloading the mod. Plus, it is also important to go to the Post page or even the Bug page to read if someone encounters any problem or problems with the mod. Because sometimes either the mod author or other mod authors can give helpful advice on how to resolve any issues.

      Remember, always read the Description Page First and then go to either the Post page or Bug page in case there are any problem or problems other people have encountered.

    2. Brabbit1987
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      The games don't have to be similar to make a point. The modding is complicated in both games, but it ultimately would work the same.

      @Jpwolf69
      Plenty of mods in Minecraft require other mods. It's a mod pack, they include the mods the other mods need. It's not complicated. In fact, the curse/twitch client will download required mods automatically. If you install a mod that requires a library, it will also download that library.

      Load order is also not a problem, it's just a file that tells the client what order to place mods in. It's literally a copy and paste sort of job. Not complicated. I can take all the information one one load order, and all the mods and copy it over to a different computer and it will work fine as long as I am not missing anything that is required.

      There is a lot of ways one can do this and make it work. The biggest difference between Curse and Nexus is Curse keeps all old files, while Nexus allows the mod author to decide if they want to remove it or not. There are several ways to solve this problem.

      1. You no longer allow mod authors to delete old files. This is not a way they want to go about it because it takes away a bit of control. However, it is a way that still exists.
      2. The modpack just installs the latest version of the mod. This can work quite often, at least in the case of Skyrim and Fallout because most updates to mods don't typically break entire games. This is more of a problem with updating during an already existing game, which is something most people who use mod packs likely would not do. Only if there is a game breaking bug that an update is needed.
      3. The best solution besides solution 1 is to use notifications and choices. If a mod authors delete a version of their mod, it will notify anyone who has included it in a mod pack that they made. This will help those who make mod packs keep things up to date, and aware of any possible issues. Then when a person downloads a pack with a version of a mod missing it will give two options. One, download the new version, or two, don't install the mod. In the case of option two the client would check to see if there are any required mods and also not include those unless they are needed for another mod. The load order will be the same just minus those mods. These two options would work the majority of the time for a game like Skyrim and Fallout.

      The only other issue with modpacks is there are a lot of mods that generate unique files. The solution here would be to include those unique files in the mod pack. So the user does not have to generate it themselves. The exception being things like DynDOLOD. I would say that just can't be included in a modpack. Sacrifices will have to be made for those who want to go the modpack route, but to people who never modded before and are not very good at it, I think they wouldn't care all that much.
  7. AGreatWeight
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    The only barriers that exist are the mod authors, Nexus, and those like you who like to make fallacious arguments against it that don't actually hold up to scrutiny.


    The rights of a mod author to allow/disallow redistribution of the content that they've created is not superseded by your (or anyone elses) convenience. Nexus tried it out, put it to the test, and realized that it will just create even more problems for everyone concerned, and ultimately isn't worth it. How ridiculous do you have to be to attempt to blame mod authors who assert their rights, Nexus who respects said rights, or those individuals who point out the dangers inherent in the very concept of modpacks, on the fundamental flaws of modpacks themselves?
    Just from the example with ModDrop, and various Youtubers (who considering their standing in the community, really should have known better) who openly violated mod author rights by illegally redistributing mods, against the wishes of the authors involved, circumventing the entire point of mod authors hosting their mods here at Nexusmods.
    Modding is not some sort of spectator sport, it demands investment of time and energy in order to learn best practices, as well as to get the most out of it. Modpacks actually create a disincentive for users to learn safe practices, by offering everything up in an all-you-can-eat buffet, free from concern. I won't even go into the disaster just waiting to happen regarding mod theft/piracy/illegal redistribution, as we already have those to deal with unfortunately, even at this stage. However, modpacks have the huge potential to encourage this kind of behaviour on a scale not yet seen.
    Modpacks fuel ignorance, and in the long term, this is a very bad idea, that proponents of modpacks seem blissfully unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge. Of all the various forum threads here and in other places, I've not seen a single mention by those who champion modpacks, regarding the negative long-term consequences of implimenting such a plug-n-play system. Besides, we already have such a system in place that offers immediate access and convenience to users with none of the hassle, it's called Creation Club... and a large portion of users actively hate it, and continue to rail against it.
    Right now, as of this very moment, the only barrier to entry regarding using mods is a users knowledge (and willingness to learn) I've yet to see any real compelling argument from those in favour of modpacks that the subsequent problems that they will create, can be steadfastly and safely navigated, without infringing on the rights of others, or damaging the (delicate and fragile) ecosphere of the mod community here.
    1. Brabbit1987
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      I have every right to say what the barriers are whether you like it or not. It's not ridiculous when it's true.
      I also have every right to give my opinion and say they don't know what they are talking about when they say it wouldn't work well.

      ModDrop is only a good example of having it done wrong. The files were stolen and hosted somewhere else without the author's permission. What I am suggesting is a system that remains here on the Nexus. I got news for you, there is no violation of rights occurring if people are not hosting the files somewhere else and they are still receiving it from where their mod author posted it.

      The safe practices crap is only a Nexus / Skyrim elitest sort of excuse. In reality, there is nothing actually wrong with making something easier to use. Even if it does mean people don't learn these "best practices". If they don't need to learn it because it just works, then it doesn't matter. It's the same reason a person can drive a car but not understand how it works.

      Mod theft is not a problem because as I said the files are literally hosted here. It wouldn't be any more of a problem than it is now. The modpacks don't have the literal mods in it, it just has a list and grabs them directly from here. To me, it sounds like you didn't read a whole lot of the conversation that has been going on in here other wsie you would have known that. It also does not encourage it. Because again, the mods are not being redistributed in any way. You want an example of how it works, go to curse forge, download the Twitch client and install a few mods into a game they support. Then download a modpack. It all comes from the same source. The client downloads the files individually, it just has a list to go off of.

      As for modpacks fueling ignorance. I think that is a ridiculous argument. As I said, I don't need to learn how a car works in order to drive it. I don't have to build a car myself in order to have one. Buying a car may "fuel" ignorance, but unless you can explain why that ignorance is bad, it's a pretty terrible argument.

      There are no long time consequences to speak of. Again, go look at curse forge, they been doing for years and only good has come of it. You are just trying to make up crap in order to support your argument. But if it really had long-term consequences, then show me that is the case. Where have you seen these long term consequences, cause I got news for you. I don't see them in communities that have modpacks.

      Creation Club is hated because of very different reasons. Don't try to use that as an argument. They are paid for mods, that is a huge reason all on its own why people dislike it. Stop using fallacious arguments. You know the creation club is hated for other reasons, not because it plug n play .. I mean seriously I can't believe you attempted to use that as a point >.>. Such a dishonest argument.

      There is no damage, there is plenty of mod communities that use modpacks, the community here is just ridiculously uptight.
  8. HeyYou
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    We aren't saying it isn't possible, we are saying it isn't practical.
    1. Brabbit1987
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      I really don't understand how one could claim it's not practical. Even just downloading a group of recommended mods is more useful than having to download them individually because it saves time. Steam Workshop essentially does this, and it's very practical.

      Let's say a friend has made a load order and you want to play with the same load order. It's a lot easier and far more practical to have a button that would download all the mods in the load order, then have to do it individually. Even if you still needed to know about modding (like if it isn't able to do everything for you), this still makes the task considerably faster and easier. Can you give me a reason why that isn't practical? And how is it more practical to go to each mod individually to download them in such a case?

      Or another good example. The STEP guide. How is it not practical to have a button that would download all the mods you need? All it's doing is saving time. If you can go a step further and make it so it is able to do more than just download the mods where it's a one-click install, then it's even more practical.

      Modded Minecraft does this and it's the most popular way to mod because of literally how practical it is.
  9. alt3rn1ty
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    Ookay mea culpa, I am such a horrible person, and stand in fear of your tirade of corrections (apologies if there is anything grammatically wrong here  
    https://xkcd.com/386/
     
    Edit : PS "Calm your tits" was not directed at yourself (hence the dividing line splitting up the response ----- ), but if the cap fits .. 
     
    Any chance of getting back on topic now mister angry ?, or are my questions @Tannin going to go past on yet another page of useless arguing ?
    1. Brabbit1987
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      Lol, that's a pretty funny comic panel.
      And if the "calm your tits" was not directed at me, then sorry. The line didn't necessarily indicate it wasn't directed at me.
  10. alt3rn1ty
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    In response to post #56822411.
     

    ~ The only barriers that exist are the mod authors, Nexus, and those like you who like to make fallacious experienced arguments against it that don't actually hold up to scrutiny.
     


     
    My bold and correction - FTFY . Your scrutiny is selectively biased.
     
    --------------
     
    My my, there are quite a few unnecessarily dramatic responses in this topic.
     
    If Nexus and Tannin think its a worth while addition to implement, they will add it.
     
    Calm your tits, its just a mod manager for games, anyone would think you were arguing Trumps sanity
     
    --------------
     
    @Tannin - Is there any chance Vortex will be able to support Wrye Bash Wizard scripts ?
     
    The reverse is being planned for inclusion in a future version of Wrye Bash (GandaG who did pyfomod is now on the team), in that it may well support mods with FOMod scripting, and so would be able to support any mod on nexus without the need to necro long gone Authors from their peace, and there would no longer need to be authors understanding and incorporating both scripting methods (which we currently do if we wish to ensure our mod can be installed by whatever mod manager is being used).
     
    There are a lot of mods out there that are still one or the other, the most prolific unfortunately being FOMods with a wide variety of ideas on packaging logic (or rather confusing mess for anyone trying to follow the scripting to determine where every file should go and what choices to make where needed for any other mod manager being used instead). Beermotor has been making a sterling effort on conversions recently, but this is not a common practice across all games.
     
    Ideally, all mod managers supporting the two main scripting methods would be great, defaulting to native scripting when both are present in the mod.
     
    I realise this is not insignificant, and would be a low priority.
    1. Brabbit1987
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      Your fix is just plain wrong. You can't just make a claim without backing it up. That is why it's called a fallacious argument. If you want to actually make a decent argument please don't start it with being rude. Back it up with actual evidence like I have. I will do it again and again as much as I have to. Curse is a website that exists with a client that literally does what others are suggesting is not possible here. This is a fact whether you like it or not, and you trying to "correct" what I wrote for me does not change this. If we are talking about experience, there is a massive site called Curse you can go ahead and ask.

      Also, you clearly don't know what selective bias is cause you are using the term wrong. Selective bias is like if you are doing a study but instead of choosing at random to participate in this study, you select individuals that will skew the results more in your favor. Seriously, if you can't even learn to use a dictionary, don't you try to correct me. >.>

      Also, calm your tits is a terrible response. The reason things are getting heated is because of people who come here trying to slap the idea down without any good reason to do so. They come here presenting arguments that really are not very good or are a none issue.

      The other reason is because of rude comments like yours.
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