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8th Edition 'ere we goez!
Changes include unit costs and upkeep, unit sizes, unit stats, weapon stats, and etc. Costs are converted from a unit's Power points.
This mod is meant to be used with Immersive Unit Scale mod. Thank you /u/harbinger for doing the hard work! Don't forget to change mod load order and load this one before the Immersive Unit Scaling mod!
Mod load order like this:
FoG
Immersive Unit Scale
Whatever else you want as long as it does not change unit stats.
For more details on how conversions happen, see below:
The CRUNCH:
Cost and model count:
Costs and upkeep are based on power levels in the codex.
Power * 20 = Ingame cost and upkeep.
Upkeep is 5% of cost as per original game.
Still balancing on which power "target" is fair. Early units should not be useless late game.
We will tweak the target power level until we find one that is balanced since some units have obscene power levels like the fortress of redemption while others are tiny like Tau Pathfinders.
Example:
The target power level of all units is 20.
Ex1: A single unit model costs 10 power. It may add another model to the unit for +5 power.
2 more models are added to bring the power up to 20.
Ex2: A single unit without the ability to add models to the unit costs 10. Another unit is added to it to bring the total cost to 20. (Like Vindicators) While technically not a single unit, you could bring multiple units and keep them grouped together on TableTop. There were often apocalypse formations with multiple units combined such as the 3 vindicator formation.
Ex3: A unit of 15 models cost 18 power. It may add 5 more models for +5 power. It will NOT have the extra 5 models added as that would bring it over 18 and it will NOT have 2 more models added to bring it to 20 because that is not a legal option.
HP and Damage:
The damage tables in 8th changed which meant the damage/health ratio changed as well. It's now effectively linear whereas before it was exponential.
Old formula: Every other toughness level wound was double the health.
Ex: If T4 W1 was 10HP, T6 W1 would be 20HP. T8 W1 would be 40.
This made sense due to the damage tables because having +2S over an opponent's T would result in a 2+ to wound.
New formula: Everything is linear. Toughness * wounds = HP. In 8th, you'd only wound on a 2+ if you had double the strength compared to just +2S in 7th.
Templates and blasts:
Templates and blasts were removed in tabletop in favor of randomized number of attacks in 8th but I decided to keep them in this mod.
I see why they did this because it made games a lot faster but it also destroyed a lot of the flavor in weapon profiles.
For example, a frag grenade is d6 attacks as well as a Battle Cannon when they used to be small blast vs large blast.
It wasn't fun spending 15 minutes to move my 120 boyz each turn while being careful with coherency to minimize what blast weapons could do but we don't have to worry about that in a digital game.
Argument to remove templates:
It's faithful to 8th!
Arguments to keep templates:
Vindicators suddenly becomes the equivalent of d6 lascannon shots regardless of whether you're shooting into 30 boyz or 1 Predator Tank. Loss of flavor and weapons become too similar.
Mortal wounds:
I never liked the idea of mortal wounds because it also removed a lot of flavor from attacks. If a macro-cannon that could shoot space ships out of the sky had a strength, AP and damage value, why not Spore Mines?
There's no easy way to convert mortal wounds to Gladius because everything has to translate to Hitpoints and 1 mortal wound on a T10 creature is not the same as one mortal wound on a T4.
Mortal wounds are currently modeled as S6 AP-4 D1 but I'm considering just digging up 7th edition values for them and translate them as faithfully as possible to 8th. For example, S8 Bombs that are just mortal wounds now would return to S8 dealing 2 wounds (d3 averaged to 2).
Regeneration:
Due to wounds of different toughness being different values, most regeneration was scaled (or are being scaled as this mod is a WIP) to a % of max HP. For example, a Carnifex has 8 wounds. Its regeneration trait on tabletop regenerates 1 wound at the end of every turn or 1/8th of its max health. In Gladius, we ought to translate this to +8% HP a turn.
TODO:
Change costs based on power to points (But this is very time consuming)
Rename a lot of things. A lot of identical weapons/rules got their names changed.
Rework special abilities/Traits. A lot of abilities are still 7th edition. Anything with a damage value were updated.
Isolate weapon effects into traits and discard traits that are no longer used.
8th lost a lot of flavorful traits but kept their effects in the weapon description. For example, Tesla is no longer a trait but all Tesla weapons still have the "Rolling a 6 to hit means you deal 3 attacks instead of 1".
Random small fixes here and there. Proba
Balance problems:
This mod is currently in a very rough state with everything transcribed from Table Top 8th Edition but this has some issues because we're not playing on a table top. There are some mistranslations due to hex grid and game engine of Gladius. For example, on tabletop, you could rarely get more than 15 out of a 30 ork boyz mob to engage in close combat but every single ork boy is able to attack in Gladius (90 melee attacks + 30 pistol attacks!). Being able to stack attacks like that on tabletop would be every ork player's spore dream.
There's also an issue with hero sniping because Heroes occupy a single hex and look-out-sir doesn't exist so when a giant mob of 30 guardsmen point their flashlight at a hero, that hero tends to vaporize.
Changes include unit costs and upkeep, unit sizes, unit stats, weapon stats, and etc. Costs are converted from a unit's Power points.
This mod is meant to be used with Immersive Unit Scale mod. Thank you /u/harbinger for doing the hard work! Don't forget to change mod load order and load this one before the Immersive Unit Scaling mod!
Mod load order like this:
FoG
Immersive Unit Scale
Whatever else you want as long as it does not change unit stats.
For more details on how conversions happen, see below:
The CRUNCH:
Cost and model count:
Costs and upkeep are based on power levels in the codex.
Power * 20 = Ingame cost and upkeep.
Upkeep is 5% of cost as per original game.
Still balancing on which power "target" is fair. Early units should not be useless late game.
We will tweak the target power level until we find one that is balanced since some units have obscene power levels like the fortress of redemption while others are tiny like Tau Pathfinders.
Example:
The target power level of all units is 20.
Ex1: A single unit model costs 10 power. It may add another model to the unit for +5 power.
2 more models are added to bring the power up to 20.
Ex2: A single unit without the ability to add models to the unit costs 10. Another unit is added to it to bring the total cost to 20. (Like Vindicators) While technically not a single unit, you could bring multiple units and keep them grouped together on TableTop. There were often apocalypse formations with multiple units combined such as the 3 vindicator formation.
Ex3: A unit of 15 models cost 18 power. It may add 5 more models for +5 power. It will NOT have the extra 5 models added as that would bring it over 18 and it will NOT have 2 more models added to bring it to 20 because that is not a legal option.
HP and Damage:
The damage tables in 8th changed which meant the damage/health ratio changed as well. It's now effectively linear whereas before it was exponential.
Old formula: Every other toughness level wound was double the health.
Ex: If T4 W1 was 10HP, T6 W1 would be 20HP. T8 W1 would be 40.
This made sense due to the damage tables because having +2S over an opponent's T would result in a 2+ to wound.
New formula: Everything is linear. Toughness * wounds = HP. In 8th, you'd only wound on a 2+ if you had double the strength compared to just +2S in 7th.
Templates and blasts:
Templates and blasts were removed in tabletop in favor of randomized number of attacks in 8th but I decided to keep them in this mod.
I see why they did this because it made games a lot faster but it also destroyed a lot of the flavor in weapon profiles.
For example, a frag grenade is d6 attacks as well as a Battle Cannon when they used to be small blast vs large blast.
It wasn't fun spending 15 minutes to move my 120 boyz each turn while being careful with coherency to minimize what blast weapons could do but we don't have to worry about that in a digital game.
Argument to remove templates:
It's faithful to 8th!
Arguments to keep templates:
Vindicators suddenly becomes the equivalent of d6 lascannon shots regardless of whether you're shooting into 30 boyz or 1 Predator Tank. Loss of flavor and weapons become too similar.
Mortal wounds:
I never liked the idea of mortal wounds because it also removed a lot of flavor from attacks. If a macro-cannon that could shoot space ships out of the sky had a strength, AP and damage value, why not Spore Mines?
There's no easy way to convert mortal wounds to Gladius because everything has to translate to Hitpoints and 1 mortal wound on a T10 creature is not the same as one mortal wound on a T4.
Mortal wounds are currently modeled as S6 AP-4 D1 but I'm considering just digging up 7th edition values for them and translate them as faithfully as possible to 8th. For example, S8 Bombs that are just mortal wounds now would return to S8 dealing 2 wounds (d3 averaged to 2).
Regeneration:
Due to wounds of different toughness being different values, most regeneration was scaled (or are being scaled as this mod is a WIP) to a % of max HP. For example, a Carnifex has 8 wounds. Its regeneration trait on tabletop regenerates 1 wound at the end of every turn or 1/8th of its max health. In Gladius, we ought to translate this to +8% HP a turn.
TODO:
Change costs based on power to points (But this is very time consuming)
Rename a lot of things. A lot of identical weapons/rules got their names changed.
Rework special abilities/Traits. A lot of abilities are still 7th edition. Anything with a damage value were updated.
Isolate weapon effects into traits and discard traits that are no longer used.
8th lost a lot of flavorful traits but kept their effects in the weapon description. For example, Tesla is no longer a trait but all Tesla weapons still have the "Rolling a 6 to hit means you deal 3 attacks instead of 1".
Random small fixes here and there. Proba
Balance problems:
This mod is currently in a very rough state with everything transcribed from Table Top 8th Edition but this has some issues because we're not playing on a table top. There are some mistranslations due to hex grid and game engine of Gladius. For example, on tabletop, you could rarely get more than 15 out of a 30 ork boyz mob to engage in close combat but every single ork boy is able to attack in Gladius (90 melee attacks + 30 pistol attacks!). Being able to stack attacks like that on tabletop would be every ork player's spore dream.
There's also an issue with hero sniping because Heroes occupy a single hex and look-out-sir doesn't exist so when a giant mob of 30 guardsmen point their flashlight at a hero, that hero tends to vaporize.