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wSkeever

About this video

  • Happens on Vanilla Skyrim (with only the test mod installed)
  • Exiting to main menu is not enough
  • Reload on death is the exact same

Here is file if you want to test. coc reloadtestcell to start

Edit: I did some more testing after reading some reddit comments talking about plugin flags:
  • Removing ESL flag from the plugin fixes the issue. There was a previously known bug with ESL flags that prevents other plugins from editing cells defined in ESL plugins, but this seems like another bug that happens even if nothing else edits the cell.
  • ESL + ESM flag does not fix the issue
This at least explains this specific save loading issue.

40 comments

  1. TheKlingonHamlet
    TheKlingonHamlet
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    So does this mean I should restart the game every single time I want to load a save?
  2. 13coins
    13coins
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    • 55 kudos
    Luckily the game is still in beta. 
    1. supremo7
      supremo7
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      What??? It's in beta already? I thought it was still in alpha, early release state... SMH... Hopefully Beth devs fix most of the gamebreaking bugs like this one before the full launch. 🤣
    2. Cecell
      Cecell
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      Just wait, we get to start allll over with Starfield! Yayyyy!!!
    3. megnoeu
      megnoeu
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      ROFLMAO!
      This made my day, thank you! XD
  3. livipup
    livipup
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    • 45 kudos
    So the thing to look out for is any quests in ESL-flagged mods? That's concerning for everything in the Creation Club...
  4. kn1ghtfall
    kn1ghtfall
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    Fear not, wSkeever's fix ready in 3... 2... 1...
    1. BuiltForSin29
      BuiltForSin29
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      Hopefully, It's my Birthday today, maybe we'll get something lol
    2. pondreing
      pondreing
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      happy birthday my sweet friend :)
  5. FRIENDMYFRIEND
    FRIENDMYFRIEND
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    THANK YOU. I WONDERED IF THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN QUITTING TO MENU OR DESKTOP
  6. tattwood
    tattwood
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    • Removing ESL flag from the plugin fixes the issue. There was a previously known bug with ESL flags that prevents other plugins from editing cells defined in ESL plugins, but this seems like another bug that happens even if nothing else edits the cell.
    Hang on a second, i've heard about one of these ESL bugs, which goes something like this....

    "Say you have ESL mod’s “A” and “B”. ESL “A” adds a new cell containing both “persistent” and “temporary” records.  If ESL mod “B” overwrites the cell added byESL “A”, then ESL A’s “temporary” objects don’t show up (i.e. one ESL overwrites another ESL’s CELL records, and causes this problem)."

    ...but your saying its another problem with ESL's, when nothing else edits the cell?
    So, is your recommendation, that if anything adds items which can be picked up (especially quest items), then it should have the ESL flag removed, for safety?
    1. wSkeever
      wSkeever
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      I did some more testing. The easiest way is to remove the ESL flag. That would solve this particular issue. But you obviously lose the benefits of ESL.

      However, this bug doesn't occur for worldspaces, so a more involved way to solve this and keep ESL flag is to move your interior cells to worldspaces.
    2. tattwood
      tattwood
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      Very interesting! 

      If worldspaces are ok, and its just (interior) cells with ESL, it does sound like there is some function in the code which isn't called before loading a save. In fact, it sounds like the cause of this bug is two possible cases;

      1) There is a function which isn't being called which resets the record flags of interior objects prior to loading.

      2) No actual function exists to reset the objects record flags, but the reason why the worldspace works, is because it clears out the memory used by interior cells (and objects) and creates a clean copy of them upon loading that worldspace, which consequently means a fresh set of record flags are copied from the original objects.
    3. wSkeever
      wSkeever
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      seeing how there are other bugs with ESL interior cells, it is probably just bethesda not implementing the interior cell loading for ESLs correctly
    4. tattwood
      tattwood
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      What happens if you pick up the green gem, change cell to an exterior worldspace, then reload a savegame and go back to the interior cell containing the gems? I wonder if the loading of that worldspace clears/resets all the interior cells? If that works, then moving to an exterior cell could be a simple way of resetting everything, without having to reload the whole game?

      By the way, excellent discovery in finding this bug wSkeever! I've frequently seen weird things happen after reloading a savegame, and found things aren't quite the same as they were upon restarting the executable, but I didn't realize what was happening until you showed this video.
    5. wSkeever
      wSkeever
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      Nothing you do short of restarting fixes this
  7. DmitryXYZ
    DmitryXYZ
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    Great work! Really important bug!
  8. TheNerdyNeko
    TheNerdyNeko
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    Weird. Reloading saves helps fix a lot of bugs as well as cause them? ToT
  9. TheManaVault
    TheManaVault
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    This explains several broken quests which don't advance...
    Maybe a silly question, but if you happen to die and the game reloads before you can exit to desktop, does the quest state get baked into your save?
    That's incredibly gamebreaking if it does.
    What I mean is, you die, the game reloads your last save, you then exit to desktop, go back into the game, but the state already got written into your save information? That would mean you'd really have to add something that makes you ctd on death, otherwise you'll eventually end up with broken quests...
    1. tattwood
      tattwood
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      What I mean is, you die, the game reloads your last save, you then exit to desktop, go back into the game, but the state already got written into your save information?
      No, because the bad state wasn't actually "saved". It was just reloaded. So even if the game reloads and puts it in a bad state, nothing is actually "written" back yet, because the load is a "read only process". You should be able to still safely exit the game, reload, and your savegames will be fine.
      Of course, if the load then immediately "saved", and then you tried to continue from that save game, then it could be game breaking. But there would be no point loading that save, because no progress would have been made between the load and the save.
    2. TheManaVault
      TheManaVault
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      Understood, thanks for clarifying. That's a relief.
  10. bientje
    bientje
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    Is that a vanilla Skyrim song in the video?
    1. tattwood
      tattwood
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      Not sure. It sounds like Oblivion music.