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About this mod
MihailMods' Ogre Guards now act like guards and not crazy exes.
I found the fix you m*^&% @$#%$^%!
- Requirements
- Permissions and credits
- Changelogs
Adulate me, my fellow modder mofoos. Were you upset upon discovering MihailMods' Ogre Guards acting like your crazy ex and attacking you as you were doing your normal business with the Orcs? Well, unless you like Ogre Guards acting like psycopathic exes and taking out their anger on you and any and all nearby living things, I have the peace you've soo desperately sought.
Note: to be clear, I use Exes as a gender agnostic term--whatever floats your boat down the river pal :-p
I found a fix for the Berserk Ogre Gaurds in MihailMods' Ogres and Ettins mod and this same fix can be applied to Skyrim Immersive Creatures. This particular mod is only for the Ogres and Ettins mod, version 1.
No more restraining orders needed, download MihailMods' Ogres and Ettins mod now!
1. Ogre AI Default Package List is the cause of the aggression issue
MihailMods added Ogre Guards to Orc strongholds--a clever idea to have a monster both feral and trained in the game. However, folks were experiencing berserk ogre guards in Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur. When the player approached these compounds, the ogre guards would attack the player or the Orc inhabitants. This was also observed in Skyrim Immersive Creatures which had friendly goblin camps that would absorbed into the ogre bloodbath. Mihail pointed out that the AI is correct and other mods were likely at fault.
1.a. How the Ogre AI logic is setup
The Ogres, as defined in the mod, use a DPLT - Default Package List, DefaultPredatorPackageList [FLST:00095F47]
This list comprises two packages:
It's important to note that the DefaultPredatorPackage has the aggro range. When DefaultPredatorPackage is active, the Ogre behaves like a wild bear that you're getting too close to. This is why when you are too close to the Ogre Guard (in their aggro range), or the Orcs are too close to the Ogres, the Ogres frenzy and attack despite being in the same TownMorKhazgurFaction/TownNarzulburFaction factions as the orcs.
1.b. How the Skyrim Engine interprets the Orc Guard AI logic
In-game if you view the NPC details of the Ogre Guards, the Dushnikh Yal Ogre Guards are set to use the DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv, whereas in Mor Khazgur/Narzulbur, the Ogre Guards are set to use the DefaultPredatorPackage.
This is why, with the same default package list, one Ogre group is docile and the other is aggressive. The way the package logic is defined, this default package list should not be used for guards that the Player will be near to as a natural part of the gameplay/story. It's perfect for bears moseying around and guarding their territory though.
1.c How the Skyrim Engine decided which package is active for the Orc Guards
The DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv has no condition whereas DefaultPredatorPackage does. So if the condition for DefaultPredatorPackage is met, DefaultPredatorPackage will be active; if not met, DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv will be active.
DefaultPredatorPackage's condition is if Subject.IsInInterior = 0.000000. So, if the Ogre is not in an interior cell, this package will fire.
I don't get it, but the engine determines that the Dushnikh Yal Orgre Guard's are in an interior cell, whereas the other strongholds' Ogre Guards are not. Perhaps this is due to the placement of the Ogres within and without the stronghold walls? Or the Dushnikh Yal stronghold is considered an interior cell? I didn't bother crawling into this rabbit hole because a sufficient explanation and best practice application was found (namely, give an NPC packages that best matches it's intended behavior under all circumstances).
1.d. My Solution
I removed the Ogre Guard's DPLT - Default Package List entries and set their Packages | PKID - Package #0 to DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv [PACK:0010F587].
This allows the Ogres to mosey about and since they're in the corresponding Orc Town faction and belong to the Orc crime faction, to become aggressive just like the other Orcs as they should.
2. [Nice to Have Fix] Fixed the Ogre NPC TPLT - Template pointers
2.a. the Dushnikh Yal Ogres (mihailogre_NPC_savage_DUSH "Ogre Guard" [NPC_:FE117835]) point to a common Ogre NPC (mihailogre_NPC_savage "Savage Ogre" [NPC_:FE11781D])
2.b. the Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur Ogres however point to the Dushnikh Yal Orgers -> mihailogre_NPC_savage_DUSH "Ogre Guard" [NPC_:FE117835]
2.c. I pointed the Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur Ogre templates to the common Orgre NPC's:
mihailogre_NPC_common "Ogre" [NPC_:FE117820] for mihailogre_NPC_common_MOR
mihailogre_NPC_savage "Savage Ogre" [NPC_:FE11781D] for mihailogre_NPC_savage_MOR and renamed accordingly.
mihailogre_NPC_armored "Ogre Chieftain" [NPC_:FE11782D] for mihailogre_NPC_armored_NARZU and renamed accordingly.
So why this fix necessary? Because it implements what I deduce MihailMods had intended--that the ogre guards had some variety as based upon their EditorID names and not just clones of the savage ogre. I see this as good design practice.
3. [Optional] Orc Town Faction Fix
This is maybe moving too far beyond the Ogre fix, so I have this as an optional plugin.
I noticed that the two of the Orc Stronghold factions did not have self-refences.
TownDushnikhYalFaction [FACT:000284B1] --> has a relationship of Ally to it's own members
TownMorKhazgurFaction [FACT:000284B2] --> no self relation
TownNarzulburFaction [FACT:0002C006] --> no self relation
This fix adds the self-references to the Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur town factions. Good design practice to prevent issues in future.
Installation
This is a FOMOD built installer, so feel fee to Install with MO2 or another mod organizer.
Note: to be clear, I use Exes as a gender agnostic term--whatever floats your boat down the river pal :-p
I found a fix for the Berserk Ogre Gaurds in MihailMods' Ogres and Ettins mod and this same fix can be applied to Skyrim Immersive Creatures. This particular mod is only for the Ogres and Ettins mod, version 1.
No more restraining orders needed, download MihailMods' Ogres and Ettins mod now!
1. Ogre AI Default Package List is the cause of the aggression issue
MihailMods added Ogre Guards to Orc strongholds--a clever idea to have a monster both feral and trained in the game. However, folks were experiencing berserk ogre guards in Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur. When the player approached these compounds, the ogre guards would attack the player or the Orc inhabitants. This was also observed in Skyrim Immersive Creatures which had friendly goblin camps that would absorbed into the ogre bloodbath. Mihail pointed out that the AI is correct and other mods were likely at fault.
1.a. How the Ogre AI logic is setup
The Ogres, as defined in the mod, use a DPLT - Default Package List, DefaultPredatorPackageList [FLST:00095F47]
This list comprises two packages:
- DefaultPredatorPackage [PACK:0006C989]
- DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv [PACK:0010F587]
It's important to note that the DefaultPredatorPackage has the aggro range. When DefaultPredatorPackage is active, the Ogre behaves like a wild bear that you're getting too close to. This is why when you are too close to the Ogre Guard (in their aggro range), or the Orcs are too close to the Ogres, the Ogres frenzy and attack despite being in the same TownMorKhazgurFaction/TownNarzulburFaction factions as the orcs.
1.b. How the Skyrim Engine interprets the Orc Guard AI logic
In-game if you view the NPC details of the Ogre Guards, the Dushnikh Yal Ogre Guards are set to use the DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv, whereas in Mor Khazgur/Narzulbur, the Ogre Guards are set to use the DefaultPredatorPackage.
This is why, with the same default package list, one Ogre group is docile and the other is aggressive. The way the package logic is defined, this default package list should not be used for guards that the Player will be near to as a natural part of the gameplay/story. It's perfect for bears moseying around and guarding their territory though.
1.c How the Skyrim Engine decided which package is active for the Orc Guards
The DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv has no condition whereas DefaultPredatorPackage does. So if the condition for DefaultPredatorPackage is met, DefaultPredatorPackage will be active; if not met, DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv will be active.
DefaultPredatorPackage's condition is if Subject.IsInInterior = 0.000000. So, if the Ogre is not in an interior cell, this package will fire.
I don't get it, but the engine determines that the Dushnikh Yal Orgre Guard's are in an interior cell, whereas the other strongholds' Ogre Guards are not. Perhaps this is due to the placement of the Ogres within and without the stronghold walls? Or the Dushnikh Yal stronghold is considered an interior cell? I didn't bother crawling into this rabbit hole because a sufficient explanation and best practice application was found (namely, give an NPC packages that best matches it's intended behavior under all circumstances).
1.d. My Solution
I removed the Ogre Guard's DPLT - Default Package List entries and set their Packages | PKID - Package #0 to DefaultSandboxEditorLocation1024NoConv [PACK:0010F587].
This allows the Ogres to mosey about and since they're in the corresponding Orc Town faction and belong to the Orc crime faction, to become aggressive just like the other Orcs as they should.
2. [Nice to Have Fix] Fixed the Ogre NPC TPLT - Template pointers
2.a. the Dushnikh Yal Ogres (mihailogre_NPC_savage_DUSH "Ogre Guard" [NPC_:FE117835]) point to a common Ogre NPC (mihailogre_NPC_savage "Savage Ogre" [NPC_:FE11781D])
2.b. the Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur Ogres however point to the Dushnikh Yal Orgers -> mihailogre_NPC_savage_DUSH "Ogre Guard" [NPC_:FE117835]
2.c. I pointed the Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur Ogre templates to the common Orgre NPC's:
mihailogre_NPC_common "Ogre" [NPC_:FE117820] for mihailogre_NPC_common_MOR
mihailogre_NPC_savage "Savage Ogre" [NPC_:FE11781D] for mihailogre_NPC_savage_MOR and renamed accordingly.
mihailogre_NPC_armored "Ogre Chieftain" [NPC_:FE11782D] for mihailogre_NPC_armored_NARZU and renamed accordingly.
So why this fix necessary? Because it implements what I deduce MihailMods had intended--that the ogre guards had some variety as based upon their EditorID names and not just clones of the savage ogre. I see this as good design practice.
3. [Optional] Orc Town Faction Fix
This is maybe moving too far beyond the Ogre fix, so I have this as an optional plugin.
I noticed that the two of the Orc Stronghold factions did not have self-refences.
TownDushnikhYalFaction [FACT:000284B1] --> has a relationship of Ally to it's own members
TownMorKhazgurFaction [FACT:000284B2] --> no self relation
TownNarzulburFaction [FACT:0002C006] --> no self relation
This fix adds the self-references to the Mor Khazgur and Narzulbur town factions. Good design practice to prevent issues in future.
Installation
This is a FOMOD built installer, so feel fee to Install with MO2 or another mod organizer.
- If installing just the AI Package and Template fix, load the fix esp immediately after MihailMods' Ogres and Ettins mod.
- If installing the AI Package, Template and Faction fix, load the fix as low as possible or after any other changes to the Orc Stronghold factions.