Version 1.5 of this mod is in testing. It adds an alternative way to complete the Crown of Barenziah quest chain without going through the Thieves Guild, using a royal jeweller NPC added to the Blue Palace. Once that is working, I will be producing a stability release that corrects all the short-cuts I took with scripting and reduces problems like a quest being able to be repeated by by rereading the same note.
EDIT: Version 1.5 now uploaded. It adds Barenziah which is tested at least partially and also some scripts which were overlooked from the original version.
EDIT: Version 1.6 now uploaded. Adds yet more scripts (Hopefully nothing is missing now) and makes most quests safer by making it so the scripts can only be triggered once. Unless I hear about any bugs, I plan this to be the last version for a while.
EDIT: Version 1.8 added. Contains a temporary means to get the Arch-Mage key without theft until I get a quest put in place to do this. Also fixes the exit to the Madness Cave and adds a couple of useful items to said cave.
EDIT: Version 1.9 added. Some people find Maerven Rahal has a little bit too much wanderlust. So I have put a necklace, which when when equipped, summons her to the entrance of the Blue Palace, in the Control chest in Madness.
EDIT: Version 2.0 added. This adds a barrel that triggers if you select the Destroy Dark Brotherhood quest, giving you access to some of the rewards you would otherwise miss out on. It also fixes a small problem with the dialog when you have all 24 Barenziah gems.
The new ways to obtain the objects, if you don't want to discover for yourself
Spoiler:
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Ring of Namira Eola is now the Champion of Namira. If you attack and kill her you can recover the Ring from her corpse. Reasoning: Clearly Namira has active worship going and Namira seems to be the lead. Since the Ring is something only of use to an active cannibal, it makes sense that of anyone that she would initially possess it.
Staff of Magnus Go to the Septimus Signus outpost. There you will find a key on his shelves (it is usually concealed by books). This unlocks a small chest that is beside the bookshelves. Take the note from the chest and read it. Note that this starts the quest as normal and all previous quests in the Winterhold chain will be marked as complete and you will receive any rewards from them. You can take the torc (spare copy in chest just in case) and go to Labyrinthian and obtain the Staff as normal. You can then complete the quest as normal or just leave it hanging if you do not want to be Arch-Mage. Should you need access to the college for other quests, you may have to fight magical anomalies, and/or use the Staff of Magnus on the barrier to enter, but after that you should be able to operate normally without getting further involved in the quest. Reasoning: Septimus is a former mage from Winterhold. Before he went mad and became obsessive, it is quite possible he was pursuing other avenues of research. Equally it is feasible that an older colleague, nearing the end of their life might have given him their researches into a topic like the Staff of Magnus.I have put the note in a locked chest where you have to hunt for the key to ensure that you cannot accidentally read the note and start the quest.
Ebony Mail When you talk to the Priestess at the Saracellum of Boethiah, first ask about Boethiah then when she says that you need purpose, then take the final option - forget the games I will fight her Champion. The quest then runs as normal. Go to Knifepoint mine and kill the Champion. Put on mail and complete quest in usual way. Reasoning:Boethiah is already tired of her current Champion as dialog shows. Whilst she may enjoy the show of watching people sacrificed, if someone defeats her Champion it is unlikely she would deny them.
Rueful Axe Offer to hand in the axe and reunite Barbas and Clavicus Vile. When you complete you will have gained the Masque but still have the axe. Reasoning: The stats on the Axe reveal that it is hardly the super-powerful item that Vile describes it as. I think he neither needs it to perform the reunification nor does he want it as a plaything. He just wants to see if the Dragonborn will kill Barbus. Once the deal is refused therefore he loses interest and has no reason to remove the Axe.
Savior's Hide Go to Rimerock Burrow. On the same altar as the Rueful Axe you will find a set of notes. Read them. This starts a new quest for the Saviors Hide. Go a little deeper into the Burrow and you will find a chest with the Hide in it. Reasoning: Since the Hide exists in other Elder Scrolls games it is unlikely it can only be made from Sinding. It could already therefore be in existence. Lort is a good person to possess it or be seeking it, given his interest in Werewolves. It explains his being at the Burrow. Having a new quest is simply a handling mechanism, there is no real sense in which you are searching for the Hide, it is pretty much in the next room but this lets me award the Hide without messing with the original quest at all. I think by the time you have reached Lort you have probably fought enough foes to feel it isn't simply being handed to you.
Skull of Corruption When you talk to Erandur, tell him that you do not trust him and that you would rather kill Vaermina's Champion on your own. Head into Nightcaller Temple. The Champion is just inside. Fight them and take the staff off their body. Reasoning: Whilst the original inhabitants of the Temple were trapped inside, it is unlikely they were the only worshippers of Vaermina in the world. Moreover whilst the quest text makes it sounds like the Skull is working passively, once the Dragonborn possesses it, the enchantment upon it shows it does not function this way. Someone must be using it to feed on the dreams of the people of Dawnstar. Since it seems that Erandur has not ventured very deep into the Temple it is possible he is not aware of this or the presence of the Champion.
Sanguine Rose Undertake the drinking contest as normal. When you wake in the Temple of Dibella, take the bottle of mead, entitled "Hair of the Dog" mead, which activates a new quest. Head to Morvuskar where you will find a Champion of Sanguine there. Fight and kill them then take the staff from their body. Reasoning: Given the phonetic pronunciation of Sam's name, it is more than likely that someone intelligent will realize who he is. Rather than play his games and undertake a series of annoying tasks, if you want the Rose, it makes sense to go and take it from his current Champion.
Wabbajack Go to the Blue Palace in Solitude. Just inside you will find a madness box on a shelf. Inside is a set of notes called "Key to Madness". Read this and be teleported to a fantasy place. Fight the Champion of Sheogorath and take the staff of his body. Reasoning: Honestly, slight. I just wanted rid of this quest. It is my intention to ultimately tie the Madness notes better to a plotline and make the Madness realm more interesting
The Crown of Barenziah When you pick up the first unusual gem, head to Solitude and find Maerven Rahal, a Redguard woman who is the royal jeweler. She walks through the streets and sleeps in the Blue Palace. After this follow through the quest as normal but speak to her whenever the quest directs you to Vex normally. Reasoning: I wanted to offer a way to do this quest and avoid the Thieves Guild altogether. It seemed to me sensible that the monarch of Skyrim would have someone to look after their crowns and other jewelery and this person would therefore be an expert in gems. She would therefore readily recognize gems from the Crown of Barenziah. However because the crown is irevocably linked to the Thieves Guild, and it is a paragon for them, it makes sense to me that Maven Black-Briar, with her Thieves Guild links, would be the purchaser. Currently you do not get any money for the crown, just the prowler's profit bonus. I do intend you to be paid for selling it. However I am loathing scripting linked with dialog rather than objects and not achieving much through it.. So this is a future objective though the current dialog says it happens.
Emperor's Robes Chose the Destroy Dark Brotherhood version of the quest and a barrel will activate within the Sanctum which contains them Reasoning: Whilst without you, the Brotherhood do not have access to the Night Mother, in the end they seem to learn about most contracts, so it is possible Amaund Motierre would still have made contact. Equally that he might help the Brotherhood by providing copies of what the Emperor and his guards would be wearing to help them train for the assassination and recognize their target. Since organization does not seem to be the Brotherhood's strong point, if the rest of the Sanctuary is anything to go by, it is quite possible these might get lumped together with other random items in a storage barrel.
Goals: - Allow consistent and realistic gameplay appropriate to the style of character chosen - Reduce the number of linear quest paths forced upon the player - Reopen dungeons linked to specific quest chains if the player chooses not to do those quests - Permit alternative way to obtain quest rewards otherwise limited to particular chains or choices - Make choices made in quests be more meaningful by not letting other quests contradict them - Enable player to make various quality-of-life improvements to gameworld that better suits the way they want to play
Differences from Quest Alternatives: 1) Modular - Choose what you want to activate rather than accept my choices - Core module is aware of the other modules and reacts to the choices you make, shutting off inconsistent or contradictory choices, reducing danger of breaking quests - Easier to update and much more efficient 2) Even lighter touch applied to the changes made to game - No new locations or NPCs - Makes heavy use of the radiant quest system to relocate objects, meaning every playthrough will be different - Can take advantage of other landmass mods installed such as Bruma. 3) Wider scope and goals - Avoid major quest chains entirely and still have access to their rewards and locations - Add new quest choices, eg betray Dark Brotherhood after joining them - Tweak the game according to your preferences (eg no puzzle doors)
Questing Freedom is a new project. It should be largely compatible with this mod but will make different choices and will ultimately include its own options for everything this mod covers. Currently some 40 modules are planned but I am happy to receive suggestions for others, so feel free to post about changes you would like to be able to make to the game's quests.
Testers are welcomed but you should know, or be willing to learn, how to clean scripts.
This looks like a really interesting mod; I just downloaded for a new playthrough. Since the spirit of the mod is to allow options, would you consider adding an alternative to a few miscellaneous or side quests that you, as the character, are essentially railroaded into taking once you talk to someone? I'm specifically thinking of the Lights Out quest in Solitude, where Jaree-Ra stands around heckling everyone one until the player starts the quest, and once it's started, you can't even report him to the guards, as well as the beggar Degaine in Markarth deciding you have to steal a statue from the Dibella temple. Actually, in some ways that one is worse, since the "Steal the statue" quest is the precursor/alternate of the "Heart of Dibella" quest.
If those are beyond what you consider the scope of this, or if you don't feel like addressing them, then thank you for what you have already accomplished here.
I think this is beyond the scope of what I intended for this mod. It might however be within that of the project I am currently working on which is entitled Questing Freedom and is about tweaking your game to allow you the kind of experience that suits your style of gameplay and is consistent with the character you have chosen. Essentially you are presented with a chest of books near the start of the game. Each one that you read makes one change, sometimes a major one like getting rid of the Dark Brotherhood questline, sometimes a minor one, like removing an annoying loud-mouthed character in Whiterun. I already have a lot of things planned but allowing you to remove Jaree-Ra is an easy one to add. The Markath quest might be harder as that may involve some quest editing which I am largely trying to avoid. I will add it to my list.
Thank you for this. It's nice to see alternatives to certain quests. Especially that gem one, since I've always avoided touching anything that has to do with the Thieves guild.
Thank you for the comment. It is a pleasure and if there are any quests that people would like alternatives to, let me know and I will work them into future revisions. I returned recently to Skyrim (now SSE) after a four month absence thanks to a hard drive failure. My previous character was a stealth mage and the first one I ever did the Barenziah chain on because he fitted in well with the Thieves Guild. However I was getting frustrated on my new character amassing a collection of undroppable gems that there was nothing I could do with as I had no intention of joining the Guild so that spurred me to provide an alternative means of completing the quest.
So it was this quest that ultimately inspired the mod though it was not the first I actually changed. I started small, as I had forgotten a lot of things since I produced my last mod and it provided an opportunity to relearn the Creation Kit. Each quest I provided an alternative to led me to another and within two days I had a long list. I really did all this for myself which is why my initial documentation was so scrappy and why early versions of this mod had problems as I did not make a good list of scripts I had amended and how. It was only afterwards that I considered some other people might find some of the changes of use and to make it available publicly
If people do find bugs, just let me know and I will work on correcting them. Right now this really is a proof of concept and a lot of things will be developed over time but I wanted to find what was possible and what was not quickly. For instance I would love to add a way to purchase the stones as whilst the game may not class it as such, I do consider creeping into someone's room at night and taking a gem from them, is theft and so not appropriate to many of my characters. So I would like to be able to legitimately buy them off their owners. Right now that has defeated my coding ability but as I get more familiar with the Creation kit once more, it may become possible. So this mod is under active development but no specific timescale is planned. I will however respond quickly to notification of bugs or feature requests. Whilst this was developed initially as a private mod, I very much appreciate the players who try it and will do my best to support them.
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EDIT: Version 1.5 now uploaded. It adds Barenziah which is tested at least partially and also some scripts which were overlooked from the original version.
EDIT: Version 1.6 now uploaded. Adds yet more scripts (Hopefully nothing is missing now) and makes most quests safer by making it so the scripts can only be triggered once. Unless I hear about any bugs, I plan this to be the last version for a while.
EDIT: Version 1.8 added. Contains a temporary means to get the Arch-Mage key without theft until I get a quest put in place to do this. Also fixes the exit to the Madness Cave and adds a couple of useful items to said cave.
EDIT: Version 1.9 added. Some people find Maerven Rahal has a little bit too much wanderlust. So I have put a necklace, which when when equipped, summons her to the entrance of the Blue Palace, in the Control chest in Madness.
EDIT: Version 2.0 added. This adds a barrel that triggers if you select the Destroy Dark Brotherhood quest, giving you access to some of the rewards you would otherwise miss out on. It also fixes a small problem with the dialog when you have all 24 Barenziah gems.
Eola is now the Champion of Namira. If you attack and kill her you can recover the Ring from her corpse.
Reasoning: Clearly Namira has active worship going and Namira seems to be the lead. Since the Ring is something only of use to an active cannibal, it makes sense that of anyone that she would initially possess it.
Staff of Magnus
Go to the Septimus Signus outpost. There you will find a key on his shelves (it is usually concealed by books). This unlocks a small chest that is beside the bookshelves. Take the note from the chest and read it. Note that this starts the quest as normal and all previous quests in the Winterhold chain will be marked as complete and you will receive any rewards from them. You can take the torc (spare copy in chest just in case) and go to Labyrinthian and obtain the Staff as normal. You can then complete the quest as normal or just leave it hanging if you do not want to be Arch-Mage. Should you need access to the college for other quests, you may have to fight magical anomalies, and/or use the Staff of Magnus on the barrier to enter, but after that you should be able to operate normally without getting further involved in the quest.
Reasoning: Septimus is a former mage from Winterhold. Before he went mad and became obsessive, it is quite possible he was pursuing other avenues of research. Equally it is feasible that an older colleague, nearing the end of their life might have given him their researches into a topic like the Staff of Magnus.I have put the note in a locked chest where you have to hunt for the key to ensure that you cannot accidentally read the note and start the quest.
Ebony Mail
When you talk to the Priestess at the Saracellum of Boethiah, first ask about Boethiah then when she says that you need purpose, then take the final option - forget the games I will fight her Champion. The quest then runs as normal. Go to Knifepoint mine and kill the Champion. Put on mail and complete quest in usual way.
Reasoning:Boethiah is already tired of her current Champion as dialog shows. Whilst she may enjoy the show of watching people sacrificed, if someone defeats her Champion it is unlikely she would deny them.
Rueful Axe
Offer to hand in the axe and reunite Barbas and Clavicus Vile. When you complete you will have gained the Masque but still have the axe.
Reasoning: The stats on the Axe reveal that it is hardly the super-powerful item that Vile describes it as. I think he neither needs it to perform the reunification nor does he want it as a plaything. He just wants to see if the Dragonborn will kill Barbus. Once the deal is refused therefore he loses interest and has no reason to remove the Axe.
Savior's Hide
Go to Rimerock Burrow. On the same altar as the Rueful Axe you will find a set of notes. Read them. This starts a new quest for the Saviors Hide. Go a little deeper into the Burrow and you will find a chest with the Hide in it.
Reasoning: Since the Hide exists in other Elder Scrolls games it is unlikely it can only be made from Sinding. It could already therefore be in existence. Lort is a good person to possess it or be seeking it, given his interest in Werewolves. It explains his being at the Burrow. Having a new quest is simply a handling mechanism, there is no real sense in which you are searching for the Hide, it is pretty much in the next room but this lets me award the Hide without messing with the original quest at all. I think by the time you have reached Lort you have probably fought enough foes to feel it isn't simply being handed to you.
Skull of Corruption
When you talk to Erandur, tell him that you do not trust him and that you would rather kill Vaermina's Champion on your own. Head into Nightcaller Temple. The Champion is just inside. Fight them and take the staff off their body.
Reasoning: Whilst the original inhabitants of the Temple were trapped inside, it is unlikely they were the only worshippers of Vaermina in the world. Moreover whilst the quest text makes it sounds like the Skull is working passively, once the Dragonborn possesses it, the enchantment upon it shows it does not function this way. Someone must be using it to feed on the dreams of the people of Dawnstar. Since it seems that Erandur has not ventured very deep into the Temple it is possible he is not aware of this or the presence of the Champion.
Sanguine Rose
Undertake the drinking contest as normal. When you wake in the Temple of Dibella, take the bottle of mead, entitled "Hair of the Dog" mead, which activates a new quest. Head to Morvuskar where you will find a Champion of Sanguine there. Fight and kill them then take the staff from their body.
Reasoning: Given the phonetic pronunciation of Sam's name, it is more than likely that someone intelligent will realize who he is. Rather than play his games and undertake a series of annoying tasks, if you want the Rose, it makes sense to go and take it from his current Champion.
Wabbajack
Go to the Blue Palace in Solitude. Just inside you will find a madness box on a shelf. Inside is a set of notes called "Key to Madness". Read this and be teleported to a fantasy place. Fight the Champion of Sheogorath and take the staff of his body.
Reasoning: Honestly, slight. I just wanted rid of this quest. It is my intention to ultimately tie the Madness notes better to a plotline and make the Madness realm more interesting
The Crown of Barenziah
When you pick up the first unusual gem, head to Solitude and find Maerven Rahal, a Redguard woman who is the royal jeweler. She walks through the streets and sleeps in the Blue Palace. After this follow through the quest as normal but speak to her whenever the quest directs you to Vex normally.
Reasoning: I wanted to offer a way to do this quest and avoid the Thieves Guild altogether. It seemed to me sensible that the monarch of Skyrim would have someone to look after their crowns and other jewelery and this person would therefore be an expert in gems. She would therefore readily recognize gems from the Crown of Barenziah. However because the crown is irevocably linked to the Thieves Guild, and it is a paragon for them, it makes sense to me that Maven Black-Briar, with her Thieves Guild links, would be the purchaser. Currently you do not get any money for the crown, just the prowler's profit bonus. I do intend you to be paid for selling it. However I am loathing scripting linked with dialog rather than objects and not achieving much through it.. So this is a future objective though the current dialog says it happens.
Emperor's Robes
Chose the Destroy Dark Brotherhood version of the quest and a barrel will activate within the Sanctum which contains them
Reasoning: Whilst without you, the Brotherhood do not have access to the Night Mother, in the end they seem to learn about most contracts, so it is possible Amaund Motierre would still have made contact. Equally that he might help the Brotherhood by providing copies of what the Emperor and his guards would be wearing to help them train for the assassination and recognize their target. Since organization does not seem to be the Brotherhood's strong point, if the rest of the Sanctuary is anything to go by, it is quite possible these might get lumped together with other random items in a storage barrel.
Goals:
- Allow consistent and realistic gameplay appropriate to the style of character chosen
- Reduce the number of linear quest paths forced upon the player
- Reopen dungeons linked to specific quest chains if the player chooses not to do those quests
- Permit alternative way to obtain quest rewards otherwise limited to particular chains or choices
- Make choices made in quests be more meaningful by not letting other quests contradict them
- Enable player to make various quality-of-life improvements to gameworld that better suits the way they want to play
Differences from Quest Alternatives:
1) Modular
- Choose what you want to activate rather than accept my choices
- Core module is aware of the other modules and reacts to the choices you make, shutting off inconsistent or contradictory choices, reducing danger of breaking quests
- Easier to update and much more efficient
2) Even lighter touch applied to the changes made to game
- No new locations or NPCs
- Makes heavy use of the radiant quest system to relocate objects, meaning every playthrough will be different
- Can take advantage of other landmass mods installed such as Bruma.
3) Wider scope and goals
- Avoid major quest chains entirely and still have access to their rewards and locations
- Add new quest choices, eg betray Dark Brotherhood after joining them
- Tweak the game according to your preferences (eg no puzzle doors)
Questing Freedom is a new project. It should be largely compatible with this mod but will make different choices and will ultimately include its own options for everything this mod covers. Currently some 40 modules are planned but I am happy to receive suggestions for others, so feel free to post about changes you would like to be able to make to the game's quests.
Testers are welcomed but you should know, or be willing to learn, how to clean scripts.
This looks like a really interesting mod; I just downloaded for a new playthrough. Since the spirit of the mod is to allow options, would you consider adding an alternative to a few miscellaneous or side quests that you, as the character, are essentially railroaded into taking once you talk to someone? I'm specifically thinking of the Lights Out quest in Solitude, where Jaree-Ra stands around heckling everyone one until the player starts the quest, and once it's started, you can't even report him to the guards, as well as the beggar Degaine in Markarth deciding you have to steal a statue from the Dibella temple. Actually, in some ways that one is worse, since the "Steal the statue" quest is the precursor/alternate of the "Heart of Dibella" quest.
If those are beyond what you consider the scope of this, or if you don't feel like addressing them, then thank you for what you have already accomplished here.
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So it was this quest that ultimately inspired the mod though it was not the first I actually changed. I started small, as I had forgotten a lot of things since I produced my last mod and it provided an opportunity to relearn the Creation Kit. Each quest I provided an alternative to led me to another and within two days I had a long list. I really did all this for myself which is why my initial documentation was so scrappy and why early versions of this mod had problems as I did not make a good list of scripts I had amended and how. It was only afterwards that I considered some other people might find some of the changes of use and to make it available publicly
If people do find bugs, just let me know and I will work on correcting them. Right now this really is a proof of concept and a lot of things will be developed over time but I wanted to find what was possible and what was not quickly. For instance I would love to add a way to purchase the stones as whilst the game may not class it as such, I do consider creeping into someone's room at night and taking a gem from them, is theft and so not appropriate to many of my characters. So I would like to be able to legitimately buy them off their owners. Right now that has defeated my coding ability but as I get more familiar with the Creation kit once more, it may become possible. So this mod is under active development but no specific timescale is planned. I will however respond quickly to notification of bugs or feature requests. Whilst this was developed initially as a private mod, I very much appreciate the players who try it and will do my best to support them.