Hello! :3 Would you consider making a patch for Stormcrown? And possibly adding the skeletons that have hoods on to the list of things it works on? Thank you for reading!
Between this and the JS's it is just pure aesthetic difference and nothing else. Both are great mods!!! Kudos ! I like this one, pure classic comical drop of the skeletons, it is kind of dark too. so yeah I love this one more.
Great mod, thanks! Almost deleted it by accident when reviewing my mod list and saw soskeleton.esp -- for a second I thought I'd made a dumb newbie error and accidentally added the skeleton from SOS. Kudos for the work!
I'm all for the cleaner approach, I applaud you for that. I can even learn from it. However, you could have done without the scaremongering for the purpose of "selling", wSkeever.
"JS's mod distributes a spell to all skeletons" Not all Skeletons, only 5 races. These are the only 5 races that are physically capable of collapsing into parts on death.
"Many mods will also use cloak spells to distribute magic effects to NPCs" Including this one.
"OnHit is called very often..." Irrelevant in this case. The skeletons die on the first hit via Unrelenting Force and within 10 hits of regular attacks.
"There is no way to filter for specific OnHit events." "OnMagicHit" exists via Papyrus Extender. Though granted I only found it yesterday. No need for it now ;)
"Having too many event scripts executing at once can lead to the game exceeding the papyrus thread limit, causing script executions to be canceled, leading to serious bugs." This is the kind of line that makes every new modder panic whenever they see the word "script". In relation to the mod, you would need a scenario where there are double to triple figure amounts of Skeletons on screen, all getting hit at exactly the same time. This doesn't occur in the vanilla game and unless a third party mod adds in literal armies of Skeletons, it's never going to be an issue.
"It is probably fine performance-wise" There is no probably about it, unless of course you spawn in a crazy number of Skeletons and decide to kill them all in one go. You'll experience severe performance issues regardless due to the strain on Havok. This affects your implmentation too.
Not all Skeletons, only 5 races. These are the only 5 races that are physically capable of collapsing into parts on death.
Seems a bit pedantic
"Many mods will also use cloak spells to distribute magic effects to NPCs" Including this one.
wat
Irrelevant in this case. The skeletons die on the first hit via Unrelenting Force and within 10 hits of regular attacks.
I think you are confused here. All spells and attacks will cause onhit for skeletons, whether the skeleton dies or not.
This is the kind of line that makes every new modder panic whenever they see the word "script". In relation to the mod, you would need a scenario where there are double to triple figure amounts of Skeletons on screen, all getting hit at exactly the same time. This doesn't occur in the vanilla game and unless a third party mod adds in literal armies of Skeletons, it's never going to be an issue.
Mods using OnHit extensively are actually "script heavy" and should be avoided. This is why we have OnHitEx in po3 papyrus extender and mods that removes vanilla OnHit events such as vanilla script enhancements
There is no probably about it, unless of course you spawn in a crazy number of Skeletons and decide to kill them all in one go. You'll experience severe performance issues regardless due to the strain on Havok. This affects your implmentation too.
You don't have to kill the skeletons, all you need is a few mods using cloak spells to trigger OnHit for all skeletons in a cell. To Quote vanilla script enhancements: "Honestly, if your playing the vanilla game with a small amount of mods, you probably don't need this. If you use a lot of mods, particularly mods that have invisible cloak spells (Vokrii, Adamant, Footprints, etc.) you may notice that certain NPCs' presence (Saadia, Nirya, Alduin, etc.) gives you script lag."
JS, there are best practices, and using OnHit for something that doesn't need scripts at all isn't one of them. You often criticize other modders when they make suboptimal meshes: heavy use of OnHit is suboptimal too.
Don't get me wrong. Best practice is a good thing but why didn't you just dmed JS and told him that instead of creating your own mod with an original idea of someone else? Wouldn't that be much more productive?
The fact that JS's version has closed permissions (and doesn't even include the script source, come on...) and wSkeever's version has open permissions is in itself already a major plus, on top of this wskeever's implementation is cleaner. What's not to love here?
Thanks for replying, wSkeever. I read everything you said and it feels counter-productive to refute some of the things you've said, so I'll just reply to the part that actually matters:
"JS, there are best practices, and using OnHit for something that doesn't need scripts at all isn't one of them. You often criticize other modders when they make suboptimal meshes: heavy use of OnHit is suboptimal too." The original request on reddit wanted a mod that split apart Skeletons and pushed their bones away. With my limited amount of papyrus knowledge (as you know, my field is 3D) the only way to do that is by sending a havok impulse immediately after they die (which I'm assuming your mod doesn't do?). I can fully appreciate that your revision is a cleaner approach and I've definitely learned from it (If we're not constantly learning, what's the point right?) I cannot know something unless it is pointed out and while it would have been easier to inform me last week, I completely understand that under no circumstance are you obligated to reach out and assist me. At the end of the day, the entire purpose was to fill a simple request with a simple mod. Nothing more.
I'll probably update my version with po3's hit events and leave it as is. Thanks again.
From their respective preview, and considering it is a mod to complement unrelenting force, JS's version looks better thanks to the force added to the bones while this version makes the skeleton simply fall apart to the ground without force. I think the script is needed in this situation to add that havok reaction. If you want to fight hundreds of skeletons with multiple shouting follower, wS's version is probably slightly better. Someone with a powerful pc would have to compare, but I don't expect a difference in fps with JS's revised version. It will be an aesthetic choice in the end.
I'm not on anyone's side. I just wanted to chime in to say that I appreciate the civilised discussion between two of my favourite modders on Nexus.
I think both mods have something to offer, and there's no one better than wSkeever to optimise the sh*t out of a mod idea. That being said, JS deserves massive props for thinking of it and implementing it in the first place. There's nothing wrong with a bit of competition so long as it remains healthy.
Love both of your work, and I for one will be sure to endorse both mods! :)
What is it with people enjoying "drama" of other people and even looking to create or promote it. Ugh, average humans with garbage self reflection are so appalling.
I just want to applaud both of you (JS and Skeever) for having a proper, respectful and level headed discussion about different practices rather than just flaming each other like some other authors would, it makes me as the end user trust the quality of both your work more than I already did knowing it's being made by actual professional adults.
80 comments
"JS's mod distributes a spell to all skeletons"
Not all Skeletons, only 5 races. These are the only 5 races that are physically capable of collapsing into parts on death.
"Many mods will also use cloak spells to distribute magic effects to NPCs"
Including this one.
"OnHit is called very often..."
Irrelevant in this case. The skeletons die on the first hit via Unrelenting Force and within 10 hits of regular attacks.
"There is no way to filter for specific OnHit events."
"OnMagicHit" exists via Papyrus Extender. Though granted I only found it yesterday. No need for it now ;)
"Having too many event scripts executing at once can lead to the game exceeding the papyrus thread limit, causing script executions to be canceled, leading to serious bugs."
This is the kind of line that makes every new modder panic whenever they see the word "script". In relation to the mod, you would need a scenario where there are double to triple figure amounts of Skeletons on screen, all getting hit at exactly the same time. This doesn't occur in the vanilla game and unless a third party mod adds in literal armies of Skeletons, it's never going to be an issue.
"It is probably fine performance-wise"
There is no probably about it, unless of course you spawn in a crazy number of Skeletons and decide to kill them all in one go. You'll experience severe performance issues regardless due to the strain on Havok. This affects your implmentation too.
Best of luck!
JS, there are best practices, and using OnHit for something that doesn't need scripts at all isn't one of them. You often criticize other modders when they make suboptimal meshes: heavy use of OnHit is suboptimal too.
"JS, there are best practices, and using OnHit for something that doesn't need scripts at all isn't one of them. You often criticize other modders when they make suboptimal meshes: heavy use of OnHit is suboptimal too."
The original request on reddit wanted a mod that split apart Skeletons and pushed their bones away. With my limited amount of papyrus knowledge (as you know, my field is 3D) the only way to do that is by sending a havok impulse immediately after they die (which I'm assuming your mod doesn't do?). I can fully appreciate that your revision is a cleaner approach and I've definitely learned from it (If we're not constantly learning, what's the point right?) I cannot know something unless it is pointed out and while it would have been easier to inform me last week, I completely understand that under no circumstance are you obligated to reach out and assist me. At the end of the day, the entire purpose was to fill a simple request with a simple mod. Nothing more.
I'll probably update my version with po3's hit events and leave it as is. Thanks again.
Leave it be man...
If you want to fight hundreds of skeletons with multiple shouting follower, wS's version is probably slightly better.
Someone with a powerful pc would have to compare, but I don't expect a difference in fps with JS's revised version.
It will be an aesthetic choice in the end.
I think both mods have something to offer, and there's no one better than wSkeever to optimise the sh*t out of a mod idea. That being said, JS deserves massive props for thinking of it and implementing it in the first place. There's nothing wrong with a bit of competition so long as it remains healthy.
Love both of your work, and I for one will be sure to endorse both mods! :)
"Your reputation as a good-natured friend of the community manages to outshine your dark side."
Please pardon the new vegas joke :p
yes