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  1. SamanthaSays
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    I'm working on forwarding the changes from this mod to the Rare Curios creation. I don't expect you to make a patch for it, as much as I'd love to have one, but I would like to have some insight on how you'd go about bringing the ingredients and effects into line.

    For most of the ingredients, I've gone with your logic of having the harder to obtain ingredients being a little bit more powerful. It is called RARE Curios after all, and a lot of the ingredients would be hard to gather even in their native regions.

    The new effects added are Cure Poison, Light, Night Eye, and Spell Absorption. For Cure Poison, I've just been copying the % chance effect from this mod because that's a great feature. I noticed that it doesn't have a buffed magnitude on rare ingredients, so I've raised it from 6.66 to 8 on suitable ingredients to see what that's like. For Light I've left the duration at 60 seconds to keep it similar to the game's spells of the same effect, and kept the effect cost pretty low. I don't see much reason for an adventurer to spend a lot of gold on Light potions instead of just bringing a trusty torch or two. I did pretty much the opposite for Night Eye, bumping up its effect cost but also keeping it at 60 seconds.

    Spell Absorption is where I'm struggling to think of how to balance it in my head. With a default base effect cost of 0.1, it gives 50% spell absorption for 60 seconds, bringing the cost up to 53. I feel like this needs a nerf, but first I want to actually INCREASE its duration to 120 seconds to match all the other combat buff potions. For now I'm greatly lowering the effect cost and halving its magnitude to see how that goes in general gameplay, but I'd love to hear how you'd consider changing this and the others.


    Thanks for the great mod! Been a wonderful addition to my modlist (alongside your economy overhaul, which is in my opinion the best economy mod available!)

    Edit: It occurs to me that I'm modding at nearly 5am at night so if you notice I've misunderstood any of the values like effect cost or what a good magnitude should be please point them out. Being new to the creation kit and being sleepy is not a good combination.

    Edit 2: Modding at 5am was a bad idea, haha. Gonna have to put some more research and experimentation into the values.
    1. skepmanmods
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      1: If you come up with a finalized patch, please consider passing it along to me so I can take a look and upload it.

      2: 8 is fine for cure poison but high level alchemist will be able to make potions with more than 100% chance to cure. No big deal though.

      3: Light/night eye: ingredient magnitude are multiplied by 4 when you make a potion (setting fAlchemyIngredientInitMult), so if you want 60 seconds duration you need to put 15 seconds on ingredients. And if the effect scales with duration which I imagine it does for light and night eye, perks and skill multipliers will also multiply that value. But it makes sense to me that a potion of light would last longer than a spell.

      4: For spell absorption, I would recommend making the effect scale with magnitude instead of duration. So you can put 120 seconds in ingredients and it will always be that value no matter what. I suggest you put the magnitude at something around 5, absorption chance would go from 20% to 75% chance to absorb depending on skill and perks.

      5: For values, if you're working with the CK you can see the effect value on each of the four effects of every ingredient, which depends on base effect cost, magnitude and duration. To be consistent with my mod, normal ingredient effect should be around 10 (each) (a bit lower for effects you consider cheap, a bit higher for effects you consider valuable) and around 15 for rare ingredients.
    2. SamanthaSays
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      Thanks a lot for the input, I'll message you about a few final things and send it your way :D
  2. Kulharin
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    Has anyone tried this alongside Ordinator with any issues to report? How bout the new Vokrii perk overhaul? https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/26176

    Do many new lands/new quest mods add new ingredients?
    1. skepmanmods
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      Ordinator and Vokrii: I don't have any personal experience to share. They should be compatible, but I can't speak for the balance. If some has played with either and my mod, feel free to chime in.

      New lands/quests: yes, big mods tend to add new ingredients. To be sure, load your complete load order with SSEEdit and look for new records in the ingredient category.
      Those new ingredients may cause some consistency issues with my mod (different effects and potencies) and ideally every mod that add those should be patched.
    2. Kulharin
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      Thanks for the info... would this work with the alchemist compendium?
    3. skepmanmods
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      Yes it will work, with the exception that a couple of ingredients have one of their effect changed by my mod (to integrate the Cure Poison and Waterwalking effects) and because Alchemist Compendium book is not dynamic, those changes won't be reflected in the book. But it's only 6 ingredients so no big deal.
      I'll maybe make a patch with the next update since that mod seems pretty popular.
      You may also be interested by Pick Your Poison which is similar to Alchemist Compendium but dynamic, so my changes are taken into account. It's a bit harder to install though.
    4. Kulharin
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      BTW do you know if a patch would be needed for Bruma and or Wyrmstooth for consistency? Any chance you could have a look at these seem to be the most popular new lands/quests mods.

      Thx again
    5. skepmanmods
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      I'm not sure, depends if they add new ingredients/potions or not.
      Anyway, I just can't make patches on request anymore, it takes me too much time every time I want to make an update.
      I can give you some guidance if you want to make patch for yourself though.
    6. Kulharin
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      Fair enough. I can try to have a look. I know Bruma does add custom potions and ingredients, I would say out of any new lands/quest mod that'd be the most important patch for consistency sake due to it's scale and popularity. Not sure about Wyrmstooth
    7. skepmanmods
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      Here is a quick rundown:

      New ingredients, no new effect: for each of the four effects, look for ingredient with the same effect and copy magnitude and duration. (Careful that some ingredients are 1.5x more potent than other with my mod). You can do it with xEdit but the CK is better because it will also update the ingredient effects value.

      New potions, no new effect: open them with the CK (and click OK to close the potion window) so the price is updated.

      New effect: with the CK, adjust the base cost of the effect so ingredients effect value is about 10 per effect, lowest tier potion about 50, highest tier about 200 (open the record with the CK will update their value.). Also, potions potency should be adjusted so highest tier is about 4 times the lowest tier. Ingredient effect should be lowest tier potion magnitude/duration * 0.25. You can see which of the two (magnitude or duration) scales by looking at the magic effect window. The value that does not scale should always be the same.
    8. Kulharin
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      Hi, is there an easy way to search for new potions, new ingredients and new effects added by other mods?

      I've only ever used xEdit, but I can try to get familiar with the ck
    9. skepmanmods
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      Not with the CK. xEdit is the only tool that clearly indicates what an .esp adds. New potions are in the "Ingestible" category, new ingredients in "Ingredient", new effects in "Magic Effect", but not all new magic effects are alchemy related.
    10. Kulharin
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      is any mod that adds ingredients also something that should be considered? Or is it really just food and potions that are the important ones?
    11. AEscraed
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      I've been playing with Vokrii and APFA for a long time now. Mostly very well balanced, a bit harder than Vokrii on its own. That being said, the Slow Metabolism perk becomes even better, since it also increases the duration of restore health/stamina/magicka potions, while keeping the same restoration per second.
    12. Kulharin
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      Does it really cause issues if I don't patch every mod that adds new ingredients, potions and food? Or will they function normally, they just wont be modified in the same way that this modifies vanilla stuff?
    13. skepmanmods
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      No game breaking issue, it's just about balance and consistency.
    14. Kulharin
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      I'll look at wyrmstooth and see if I can make a patch for that if one is needed; if so I'll send it to you.... Though could you possibly consider at least looking into Bruma? The reason this one specifically is Cooking In Skyrim - (A Food and Cooking Overhaul) https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/9070

      recommends your mod as a companion mod to it. (the no food version of your mod) and he does offer a Bruma patch for his mod, so it'd be great to run these two side by side with the same consistency for Bruma.
    15. skepmanmods
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      You're not the first to ask so yes, I'll take a look at Bruma for a patch. :)
  3. Kulharin
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    I was curious... would a zEdit patcher be a potential solution to load order compatibility? I never realized the amount of mods that add new ingredients, food or potions. I'd like to achieve consistency but it would be a time consuming task.

    EDIT: mator says it's possible "as long as the changes are rule-based, there's no reason why it couldn't be extended with a zEdit patcher"

    Here is the discord link. https://discordapp.com/channels/311211937650180097/327199886099349504
    1. skepmanmods
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      I'm really unfamiliar with zedit patchers, so I can't help you on this.
      Generally when I need to make changes to a lot of records I use Automation Tools Quickchange script.
  4. Mebantiza
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    Hi, a technical question for you, something I noticed.

    In > Ingredients category, items have two sets of 'values'

    There is
    DATA -DATA
    --Value
    and
    ENIT - EFFECT DATA
    --Ingredient Value.

    But Ingestibles is different

    I ask because Ingestibles completely lacks DATA -DATA -- Value field and its price is governed solely by the ENIT value. But, in Ingredients, the situation is rather different. Stuck me as little odd and I was wonder, if ENIT governs the price in potions and whatnot, what is this value doing for Ingredients as there are two, seemingly? competing fields that may, or may not, be doing.....something?
    1. skepmanmods
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      For ingredients:
      "DATA- DATA\Value": It's the gold value.
      "ENIT - Effect Data\Ingredient Value": That value determines which ingredient has priority if you craft a potion from ingredients with different magnitude/duration (higher value means higher priority). Without the "No auto-calculation" flag, value will be the cumulative effect cost of the four effects. Has no influence on gold value.

      For Indigestibles:
      "ENIT - Effect Data\Value": It's the gold value. Without the "No Auto-Calc" flag, it's the cumulative effect cost of all the effects of the potion.
    2. Mebantiza
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      Just a case of a somewhat poor choice of words to name that field then.
  5. zerreurk
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    Your mod is awesome.

    The poison system in Skyrim is ridiculous when the poisons last only for a single hit.
    Can your mod fix it to make the poison should last at least a couple of hits ?
    or do you have recommendation for other mod that can do that ?
    1. Mebantiza
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      I generally tend to agree that poisons should be classed as a DOT effects, and not direct damage. It makes sense when say, a shock or cold attack, applies all its damage at one time. It is somewhat harder to justify poison attacks dumping all their damage onto a target instantaneously. Fast acting poisons do exist of course to be point you could conside them direct damage, but they are rather rare and break down quickly. Same thing could said of disease based effects as well.
    2. AEscraed
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      Vokrii is a perk overhaul (made by the author of Ordinator) and, amongst its perks it has one that increases the number of hits a poison will last for.
    3. skepmanmods
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      Can your mod fix it to make the poison should last at least a couple of hits ?

      Making something like that would also mean changing poison magnitude otherwise you break balance (because detrimental effects stack).
      Say you want poison to apply for 5 hits, you also need to make the poison 5 time weaker otherwise you just multiplied the poison potency by 5.
      I think it can technically be done with perks but I there might be some complication for the poison description.
      Hitting a target multiple times for the full effect of the poison to apply is an interesting concept, I'll think about it as an option for future updates down the line.
    4. axz2
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      Re: "Say you want poison to apply for 5 hits, you also need to make the poison 5 time weaker otherwise you just multiplied the poison potency by 5".

      Probably somewhat less than 5 times weaker since its a weapon causing X damage all at once is more powerful and more useful against tough targets (and against weak targets who needs to use the poison?). And also in Skyrim if you can pause the game in the middle of battle to redose your weapon, so it would be better to have 1/5th as many hits with 5 times the damage. Still it should be weaker per hit. Maybe 1/3rd or 1/4th of the effect, but not just 1/5th.
    5. skepmanmods
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      I agree.
    6. zerreurk
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      that's awesome, hopefully you can implement it.
      Thank you so much for the response. endorse
  6. wcpaeb
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    Hi and thank you for all your mods.
    I just downloaded both Alchemy potions & Enchanting Adjustments a few minutes ago as there was an updated file version.
    But i saw that you upload the files again. Is there anything new or any changes made? Because Changelogs are the same.

    EDIT: Nevermind, i figured out. You just updated the version number for the FOMOD installers, right? So, MO can show the correct one.

    Anyways, thank you again for all your mods!!
    1. skepmanmods
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      Yes, it was just the FOMOD version number :)
  7. Kulharin
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    BTW it looks like your WACCF patch conflicts with your lighter potions patch, whichever loads after overwrites the changes in the other... You may want to add a merged patch to your fomod
    1. skepmanmods
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      Yes it was indicated in the FOMOD and the description, anyway I made merged patches for the lightweight potions addon in V2.2. WACCF patch and Awesome Potions patches still conflict though. I don't have the time to do every single combination.
    2. Kulharin
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      Hi, which patch do I choose then during install, both of them? As they still seem to only offer the individual patches? Also would it conflict with alchemist compendium patch? Thanks!
    3. skepmanmods
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      WACCF patch should loaded after Awesome Potions patch. Because of a couple of conflicts, some potions will be reverted to their original mesh. To fix this you'de have to manually fix the patch in SSEEdit.
      And Alchemist Compendium patch does not conflict.
  8. Rozzeno
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    When updating the mod, the correct one is to override or replace the mod? I ask because I saw that the patch names have been changed, overwriting two patches in the folder that I believe are the same thing. Is this intentional?
    1. skepmanmods
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      Replace.
      I don't think I changed names of already existing patches, but I added merged patches for the lightweight potions addon. So the installer choose those patches if you selected that addon.
  9. Erik3003
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    Would you mind making a patch for Zim's Fortify Enchantments? It's not much work, I made a patch myself for personal usage. ZFE fixes the alchemy-enchanting loop by making the fortify enchanting potions/effect into a fortify weapon enchantments effect. I think such a change could also be implemented directly into APFA, as it fits the theme of fixing alchemy. Maybe make it an optional addon and replace to fortify alchemy enchantment with a fortify potion effects enchantment for better consistency.
    1. skepmanmods
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      I'm not making additional patches or addons for the moment because I'd like to concentrate on other mods.
      The fortify enchanting - alchemy loop has an increasingly diminishing return on investment so it can't be exploited indefinitely. So personally I don't really want to remove it, maybe just nerf it a bit. I'm probably going to remove the fortify alchemy enchantments on rings with Enchanting Adjustments next update. (It already nerfs fortify alchemy effects by half.)
  10. Giboss
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    Hello skepmanmods...

    I have a huge problem and only you can help me.

    I installed this mod, as well as "Haladoon's Bugs SE" and "83Willows 101BugsHD Butterfly Dragonfly Luna-Moth Torchbug" (this mod was convincing on Skyrim SE - I could give you a link to download mod). Everything works well, but ...
    Thanks to the components of these mods, I can do GOD and very expensive (13,000, 45,000, ... 600,000, 1800000 septims) potions:

    - a paralyzing mixture for 200 seconds
    - mixture receiving 2600 health points per second for 120 seconds
    - mixture increasing carry weihgt by 300
    - mixture adding 4900 magic points for 300 seconds

    https://zapodaj.net/498cd77702503.jpg.html

    ... and many others.

    Could you create a patch limiting this healing?

    Thanks to your mods, Skyrim is finally well balanced, but by the two mods, which are great - again loses the balance.
    1. skepmanmods
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      Hi,
      so yes my mod is not compatible with mod that add new ingredients. I do not have time to make patches for those at the moment. If you want to do it yourself, it's pretty simple. Open my mod and new ingredients mods with SSEEdit, for each new ingredient and for each of the 4 effects, look for ingredient in my mod with the same effect, copy magnitude and duration and change the new ingredient so it match my own modifications.

      If you're not familiar with xedit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQi7vnqXySc
    2. Giboss
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      Hi...

      Very simple is something only if you can do it :) For me, physics is easy, as well as breaking boards, but for others it is something very difficult or even impossible to achieve :))

      I understand that you do not have time now, but is there a chance that you will find time later?
      Maybe you could only convert one mod (patch) ;)

      Regards
    3. skepmanmods
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      I'm getting back to you a bit late on this.
      The problem is that the more patches I make, the more work it is every time I want to update the mod. There are other mods I want to publish but can barely find the time to maintain what I already have released so I'm not making new patches on request anymore, sorry.
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