I made this comment over here, but it's really more applicable to this mod so here it is. "... I haven't touched the throwing stuff in a year, but I'd love to see it better implemented. I'm guessing off of memory but as far as I'm aware damage was only calculated using base item damage, temper value, enchants, and applied poisons (maybe there was a skill thing but it was set in the script and couldn't be adjusted by players who may be using any number of perk mods). I feel like that's an entirely inadequate system because it doesn't account for any other buffs that might be from potions, magic effects, or perks the player has (that might not be vanilla anyways), and got to the point in my playthroughs where I dealt half a health bar when using the item like a normal melee weapon and very little when throwing it. I don't know if it's possible, but it would probably be better to grab the damage value listed when the player sees the item in their inventory.
Now that I'm thinking about things more. I usually play with wildcat, which I think applies some kind of multiplier to melee damage. Variations for combat overhauls that add multipliers based on what the specific overhaul does to ranged/melee damage might be a good idea, or making an ini/mcm that lets a player input a multiplier might be a good idea, but I don't know that that's possible with standard papyrus scripting.
If you're reading this and actually want me to do this you should probably say something. I've not released so many things because I couldn't be bothered to ask permissions or polish things up enough for release because nobody seems to care. It dies when I loose interest. My load order gets about 20 mods shorter when I remove what I've made(I do a lot more than skyrim), and as you can see I've uploaded 0 of those."
If I do release anything It will require all used assets as dependencies and/or the permission of everyone who's asset I used.
The issue you're describing is caused by an indirect conflict of other mods using other modifiers to the damage. In your case, Wildcat might be inflating the melee damage of the throwable item.
The way the damage is calculated is through a script and there's no easy way to take into consideration all potential mods that might modify damage.
There are already damage multiplier globals (see customization) for weapons, shields and torches.
You have my permission though to release your edits.
My solution would be trying to grab the damage value off of whatever value is displayed in the inventory. I'd assume that if that was easy you'd have done it though instead of calculating temper values. Multipliers exist :P pranked by time and memory and maybe not reading it right last year. One thing i disliked about your scripts is that the throwing stuff is for archery. I looked into throwing in order to not use archery. Maybe I'll try to add a command that allows you to select archery, one-handed, or two-handed, and add a damage multiplier for that skill's level. (it's not perfect but it can be used to approximate features already present in other mods and perk investments.)
I don't remember, but if it's not there I'll add a thing that checks for silver material keyword and applies a 15% multiplier if the target is undead.
My solution would be trying to grab the damage value off of whatever value is displayed in the inventory.
Good luck. I've tried it, but there are no papyrus functions by default that allow for this. (unless you make an SKSE plugin) There's only one for base damage, which I use, and then I use a formula to calculate tempered damage. In addition, I also look at the different AV multipliers. Even for Vanilla, it isn't that straightforward. Add in mods like Wildcat and whatnot, which change the inherent damage formulas, and the damage will be either way too low or way too high.
One thing i disliked about your scripts is that the throwing stuff is for archery.
I don't see that skill as merely for "bows and arrows", but for all kinds of ranged weaponry, including slingshots, crossbows, guns, throwing weapons, etc. That's why I made it scale with those.
I haven't opened your mod in a year, but i have opened it. I know it isn't straight forward.
...if that was easy you'd have done it...
I've seen the code and once upon a time understood it. It's been a year and I'm yappin. I understand that IF I do somehow find a way to pull that number, it's going to be the most convoluted roundabout way of doing it ever (also possibly the only way). I have nothing but respect for you, I couldn't come close to doing this from the ground up.
This is if you are still up for it. There is a mod called 45KO Bucklers is there anyway you think you can make a compatibility mod for it where you have small shields instead the big ones?
This and Animated Armory whips are the two weapons I hope someone makes a ADXP MCO moveset for. For the Boomerangs and the shields you should only need to make one animation and a duel wield animation. Maybe take the Glenmori throw animation and convert it from a casting animation to a moveset for keyword boomerang weapon types as a quick fix.
I encountered an interesting bug. I'm unable to throw any boomerang if I have too many active effects from equipped items, even after trying the toggle. As soon as I unequip any enchanted piece of armor (or replace it with an unenchanted version) it works again. I should note that I'm using the bandolier and cape mods and have two enchantments on my regular armor.
Anyway, after a bit of testing I managed to pinpoint the source of the problem to "The Forgotten City" mod, it starts right after leaping down the hole at the very start of that mod. Any clue how to fix it?
Turns out it's something else, I did a bit more testing and managed to get it to work consistently, but only after using the Paraglider (from the mod by the same name). It tends to eventually revert to melee attacks unless I start unequipping enchanted armor or spamming the paraglider again. Whether it's a conflict with that mod or some other script hiccup, I got my overly attached boomerangs to "just work" so I'm happy.
For future reference, in case anyone is using both mods, it's indeed a conflict with Paraglider. Activating it serves as a toggle for the throwing items; removing the paraglider from your inventory gets them working again.
Adding keywords won't solve this. If it did, and it was that easy, I would have made these patches a long time ago.
As I said, these weapons aren't technically ranged weapons and no "archery" damage is being dealt. It's all done via a script, which has a very long formula to simulate the damage being dealt to create the illusion it's actually a ranged weapon. To make this work for custom perks from other overhauls, the script would need to be expanded to take all relevant archery perks in consideration.
Doing this for a massive perk overhaul like Ordinator would be a long and arduous process, let alone for doing this for all perk overhauls on Nexus, such as Adamant, Vokrii, SPERG, etc. Add in stuff like Vokriinator and Vokriinator Black for an endless cycle of patches. And heaven forbid any of them have an update, meaning, I would need to redo the entire script, aka "patching hell". As such, I haven't bothered making any patches.
Okay, it being spelled out like that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the replies. I like the mod a lot as is. So the only way to boost the damage would be to fortify the archery/sneak skill through enchantments then correct?
Sweet mod. I was in need of a batarang, of sorts, for my "Batman" playthrough. I went ahead and removed them from leveled lists for myself, but aside from that, just what I was looking for!
217 comments
"... I haven't touched the throwing stuff in a year, but I'd love to see it better implemented. I'm guessing off of memory but as far as I'm aware damage was only calculated using base item damage, temper value, enchants, and applied poisons (maybe there was a skill thing but it was set in the script and couldn't be adjusted by players who may be using any number of perk mods). I feel like that's an entirely inadequate system because it doesn't account for any other buffs that might be from potions, magic effects, or perks the player has (that might not be vanilla anyways), and got to the point in my playthroughs where I dealt half a health bar when using the item like a normal melee weapon and very little when throwing it. I don't know if it's possible, but it would probably be better to grab the damage value listed when the player sees the item in their inventory.
Now that I'm thinking about things more. I usually play with wildcat, which I think applies some kind of multiplier to melee damage. Variations for combat overhauls that add multipliers based on what the specific overhaul does to ranged/melee damage might be a good idea, or making an ini/mcm that lets a player input a multiplier might be a good idea, but I don't know that that's possible with standard papyrus scripting.
If you're reading this and actually want me to do this you should probably say something. I've not released so many things because I couldn't be bothered to ask permissions or polish things up enough for release because nobody seems to care. It dies when I loose interest. My load order gets about 20 mods shorter when I remove what I've made(I do a lot more than skyrim), and as you can see I've uploaded 0 of those."
If I do release anything It will require all used assets as dependencies and/or the permission of everyone who's asset I used.
The way the damage is calculated is through a script and there's no easy way to take into consideration all potential mods that might modify damage.
There are already damage multiplier globals (see customization) for weapons, shields and torches.
You have my permission though to release your edits.
I don't remember, but if it's not there I'll add a thing that checks for silver material keyword and applies a 15% multiplier if the target is undead.
I REALLY wanna see it before downloading, I don't NEED to see it to do so, but I'd prefer to.
He privated it, as he left the Skyrim modding community.
That is in addition to my upcoming Captain Americat run. :D
Anyway, after a bit of testing I managed to pinpoint the source of the problem to "The Forgotten City" mod, it starts right after leaping down the hole at the very start of that mod. Any clue how to fix it?As I said, these weapons aren't technically ranged weapons and no "archery" damage is being dealt. It's all done via a script, which has a very long formula to simulate the damage being dealt to create the illusion it's actually a ranged weapon. To make this work for custom perks from other overhauls, the script would need to be expanded to take all relevant archery perks in consideration.
Doing this for a massive perk overhaul like Ordinator would be a long and arduous process, let alone for doing this for all perk overhauls on Nexus, such as Adamant, Vokrii, SPERG, etc. Add in stuff like Vokriinator and Vokriinator Black for an endless cycle of patches. And heaven forbid any of them have an update, meaning, I would need to redo the entire script, aka "patching hell". As such, I haven't bothered making any patches.