Since this mod represents races on average, it is weird to take the approach that females are as tall or taller as their male counterparts. This simply doesn't exist in any country in the world, even countries where the average height is high, males are on average 10 to 15 cm taller than females so it would make sense this applies to the races in Skyrim since they follow a semi-realistic representation of humans and other races. The reality is females from all races in elder scrolls wouldn't be taller than 170 cm in general because this is what tends to happen in real life.
You are free to dive into all the lore behind the races in ES. However, they are not based on real life. It's a fantasy world with fantasy races and lore around those races. All the changes within this mod are based from lore as best as I could find from my research. If you don't like the mod, you do not have to use it, or you can adjust the heights to your liking within your own setup; doing so is just a couple value changes in xEdit.
Just a heads up for people using child overhaul mods (I use Realistic RS Children): I got compatibility issues (missing textures, meshes etc.) with the kids using this mod and load order changes did nothing. You might not experience this, but I did. Using xEdit to delete the child races in the Lore esp reverted the children to look the way I expected them to, with the downside of not getting the Lore child height changes. But in my mind I can attribute that to the children just growing at different paces while also enjoying the adult height changes this mod provides.
The only Mer who are associated with being tall are the high elves. Height isn't really any indication of elven heritage in TES, the exception of course being Altmer. Pointed ears and an affinity for magic are the main association that Elves have in TES lore.
Also you say that according to the lore, you see no reason as to why dunmer and bosmer were made so short....but the issue with that is in-game representation of races IS part of the lore. In fact, it's the most important part when it comes to visual representation. Why would writers of a game write in-game books books detailing the heights of each race when they could just visually show us?
The only time when you should really take book lore over game lore is when it comes to scale. For example, we know that Whiterun isn't literally just 20 people.
Bosmer are short, and this is consistent across the entire TES franchise in their portrayal. Dunmer have always been at an average height. Nords and Orcs have always been the larger races, and while it has been somewhat inconsistent, Nords have always been portrayed as towering over most races (barring the Altmer).
Also Orcs aren't goblins. They're associated with them, but they're really just another variation of Mer which evolved in a different manner. Their likeness to Goblins is because they worship the same god, Malacath, and they are also often pariahs from civilized society. Ogres, Orcs, and Goblins, don't really share a common ancestry, but they do share a common religion.
I would like to see something saying this or that other than race records from the games. There is usually text for such things when "world building", but I couldn't find any. If you could point me toward some or those books you mention (not Fandom), I'd be glad to review it. I used the following for my references:
That's what I'm saying, there is no text establishing the height of races. Bethesda never bothered to do so. The only thing we have is whatever consistency that has existed within in-game race heights from Morrowind to ESO.
So far as I can tell, the order heights have always been this:
High Elf -> Orc/Nord -> Beast Races/Redguards -> Dark Elf/Imperial -> Breton/Wood Elves
If we look to Oblivion race heights, I feel as if they're the most consistent.
Interesting tidbit about Bosmer, the females are actually taller than the males. This is fairly consistent in every game.
An easy way to remember racial heights is to think about their culture. High Elves being taller then all men is an exception. Of course their height advantage may be a contributing reason (among many others) as to why they're culturally inclined to having a superiority complex to other races.
Nords and Orcs are portrayed as being the second tallest is because they're a full on warrior race and they're heavily associated with martial combat.
Beast races heights are somewhat inconsistent because their biology is inconsistent. Argonian and Khajiit biology can vary greatly based upon the factors of their birth.
Redguards are also a warrior culture, but they aren't as "barbaric" as say the Orcs or Nords.
Imperials and Dunmer have always been the standard "realistic medieval" average height. Imperials are the romans of TES. They conquered tamriel thanks to their legions clad in heavy, but mobile, armor. They're not as physically imposing as the Redguards or Nords, but they can hold their own in a fight.They had to be in order to successfully conquer Tamriel.
Breton and Wood Elves are the races that have always consistently been the shortest. Wood elf females are the height of your typical imperial or redguard female. But the males are always the shortest race.
Bretons, despite having mer blood, have always consistently been fairly short. Which, given their culture, makes sense. Bretons are by far the most magically inclined of the human races. No need to be large and strong if your culture's speciality is lobbying fireballs at their enemies.
Thanks of that information. I agree with your analysis taking mainly the games race heights into account. It for that reason, I linked to the alternative mod in my description...bc I knew others wouldn't be looking for what I'm doing here.
Basically, I'm taking the games' values into account last for this mod. I've gathered as much lore as I could find and paraphrased it on the description for reach race. This is only gathered from available text. Given only that information, I logically deduce what the height of race would be. Only after I've done that do I take into account what the games have traditionally done and adjust my figures up or down.
I'll have a more final version out in a bit, but it's still a deviate from vanilla, as it's meant to be.
Every time I start a playthrough a race-height altering mod is a must have, especially one with heights that are as close as possible to lore(considering there's a limit to the lore mentioning specific sizes). Thanks.
Would anyone happen to please have links to tutorial videos on xEdit and creating patches?
This would really help people like me so if anyone has some really great links in their Favorites for creating either Bashed/Smashed Patches and creating patches through xEdit. Thank you if you want you can also DM me too and leave the links there.
the great thing about TES5edit is that it hasn't fundamentally changed at all since it was made. tutorials from years ago still apply now.
Honestly I'd say download this mod and whatever race mod you use and open it up in TES5edit. It should be fairly intuitive as to where the conflicts are. That video will just teach you how to make a new file and patch.
The one calfurius posted is good. There is also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSZviB4jqE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgay-wM_NZk
Ignore what they say about dragging the forwards into other mod records. This should never be done because when the mods update, you'll have to redo the work every time and most users forget. Just create a new plugin for your patch and all your patching can be placed in the same patch so you don't end up with 20 different plugins patching small conflicts.
Do you mean 1.01 for the female Redguard? Also, if you feel like some heights already offer correct values in other games, I wouldn't change them any more just because of a pattern with other edits.
44 comments
Just a heads up for people using child overhaul mods (I use Realistic RS Children): I got compatibility issues (missing textures, meshes etc.) with the kids using this mod and load order changes did nothing. You might not experience this, but I did. Using xEdit to delete the child races in the Lore esp reverted the children to look the way I expected them to, with the downside of not getting the Lore child height changes. But in my mind I can attribute that to the children just growing at different paces while also enjoying the adult height changes this mod provides.
Also you say that according to the lore, you see no reason as to why dunmer and bosmer were made so short....but the issue with that is in-game representation of races IS part of the lore. In fact, it's the most important part when it comes to visual representation. Why would writers of a game write in-game books books detailing the heights of each race when they could just visually show us?
The only time when you should really take book lore over game lore is when it comes to scale. For example, we know that Whiterun isn't literally just 20 people.
Bosmer are short, and this is consistent across the entire TES franchise in their portrayal. Dunmer have always been at an average height. Nords and Orcs have always been the larger races, and while it has been somewhat inconsistent, Nords have always been portrayed as towering over most races (barring the Altmer).
Also Orcs aren't goblins. They're associated with them, but they're really just another variation of Mer which evolved in a different manner. Their likeness to Goblins is because they worship the same god, Malacath, and they are also often pariahs from civilized society. Ogres, Orcs, and Goblins, don't really share a common ancestry, but they do share a common religion.
So far as I can tell, the order heights have always been this:
High Elf -> Orc/Nord -> Beast Races/Redguards -> Dark Elf/Imperial -> Breton/Wood Elves
If we look to Oblivion race heights, I feel as if they're the most consistent.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races
ESO races comparison
https://imgur.com/3AbXYiv
Interesting tidbit about Bosmer, the females are actually taller than the males. This is fairly consistent in every game.
An easy way to remember racial heights is to think about their culture. High Elves being taller then all men is an exception. Of course their height advantage may be a contributing reason (among many others) as to why they're culturally inclined to having a superiority complex to other races.
Nords and Orcs are portrayed as being the second tallest is because they're a full on warrior race and they're heavily associated with martial combat.
Beast races heights are somewhat inconsistent because their biology is inconsistent. Argonian and Khajiit biology can vary greatly based upon the factors of their birth.
Redguards are also a warrior culture, but they aren't as "barbaric" as say the Orcs or Nords.
Imperials and Dunmer have always been the standard "realistic medieval" average height. Imperials are the romans of TES. They conquered tamriel thanks to their legions clad in heavy, but mobile, armor. They're not as physically imposing as the Redguards or Nords, but they can hold their own in a fight.They had to be in order to successfully conquer Tamriel.
Breton and Wood Elves are the races that have always consistently been the shortest. Wood elf females are the height of your typical imperial or redguard female. But the males are always the shortest race.
Bretons, despite having mer blood, have always consistently been fairly short. Which, given their culture, makes sense. Bretons are by far the most magically inclined of the human races. No need to be large and strong if your culture's speciality is lobbying fireballs at their enemies.
Basically, I'm taking the games' values into account last for this mod. I've gathered as much lore as I could find and paraphrased it on the description for reach race. This is only gathered from available text. Given only that information, I logically deduce what the height of race would be. Only after I've done that do I take into account what the games have traditionally done and adjust my figures up or down.
I'll have a more final version out in a bit, but it's still a deviate from vanilla, as it's meant to be.
This would really help people like me so if anyone has some really great links in their Favorites for creating either Bashed/Smashed Patches and creating patches through xEdit. Thank you if you want you can also DM me too and leave the links there.
Thank you.
Endorsed!
the great thing about TES5edit is that it hasn't fundamentally changed at all since it was made. tutorials from years ago still apply now.
Honestly I'd say download this mod and whatever race mod you use and open it up in TES5edit. It should be fairly intuitive as to where the conflicts are. That video will just teach you how to make a new file and patch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSZviB4jqE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgay-wM_NZk
Ignore what they say about dragging the forwards into other mod records. This should never be done because when the mods update, you'll have to redo the work every time and most users forget. Just create a new plugin for your patch and all your patching can be placed in the same patch so you don't end up with 20 different plugins patching small conflicts.
Thank you TechAngel and calfurius.
Do you mean 1.01 for the female Redguard? Also, if you feel like some heights already offer correct values in other games, I wouldn't change them any more just because of a pattern with other edits.
Yes, 1.01.