The CCOR version of this mod no longer requires the Campfire/CCOR patch from Kryptokir's... But what does this mean? - Is that patch still needed? - How should the load order be?
i know this is like a year removed from the most recent activity on this mod but ill put this here in case it helps anyone going forward. It seems to be the understanding that an esl version of this mod and the script fix included do not work... i took pexd and decompiled the script and didn't find any formid references all the calls to the backpacks are through editor id's. If this means nothing to you in plain terms it means the mod can be compacted and any formid changes wont f*#@ with the script (at least to the best of my knowledge). https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ip5w2p/stress_testing_skyrim_why_the_limit_for_esl_files/ Part 4 is kind of what I am talking about here but the whole post is a worthwhile read if you are looking to esl some mods.
I compacted the form id's in xedit and flagged the esp as an esl. After that I booted up the game took an alternate start to the inn in solitude and proceeded to wait 24hrs then go check the Bits and pieces merchant. I did this like 10 times and everytime the backpack variety shuffled and I didnt get a ton of backpacks accruing in the inventory but like i said earlier i could be completely wrong and this is due to something else.
in the meantime tldr i esl'd the mod with the script fix still there and it seems to still work as the script calls editor id's not form id's
Thanks for the heads up. I'll take a look into integrating this if I ever get back into the game.
To clarify for anyone reading this at a glance: At present, you can choose between having a .ESP version of my mod which includes a fix for a minor bug present in the original Campfire, or having an .ESL file of my mod which does not include this particular fix. My recommendation is currently to use the .ESP version unless you have Eremite installed.
My guess would be that you do not have one of the prerequisite mods installed. The CCOR version of this mod requires the Campfire patch from this page.
I have uploaded ESL-flagged plugins the the 'miscellaneous files' section. In order to make them, a certain script-based fix had to be removed. Maybe that's for the best anyways. I will consider making these the main files in updates going forward.
This sounds great But I disagree with the backpack change, if the word backpack comes first it makes it nicer when you filter by name in your inventory, as it then places all your backpacks together
Added an optional file to revert my changes. For those who wish to bask in the glory of simpler sorting and love carrying 13 backpacks inside their backpack.
Some of the breakdown recipes from CCOR (i.e. for bandit/forsworn gear) still give fur plate as they don't seem to be touched by your main CCOR plugin. Wasn't sure if this was an oversight or not (or maybe just an issue on my end). I've edited a few of the breakdown recipes for my own game to remove the fur plate but I figured I should let you know. Thanks for the mod
Good catch! Thanks. For whatever reason, those are the only deconstruction recipes that CCOR has that produces Fur Plates instead of Leather Strips (as far as I can tell). I have no idea why that is; I'm guessing it was just an oversight.
This has been corrected in v1.2. (Please read the changelog as I have isolated all meddling with Fur Plates to it's own seperate .ESP.)
Thanks for the mod. Now not to be a pedant, but given the mod is largely about text editing, seperate should be written as "separate" on the relevant entries.
Lol. Was it like this in the Campfire mod to begin with, or did I mess it up on my side? Thanks for the heads up either way. EDIT: Yep, that was all on me - it was fine to begin with. I've uploaded a new version to fix this. Really, thanks for letting me know!
I'm probably just misreading things, but are there less choices in the menu's now? Based on the before and after pictures, it seems like sometimes there are less choices in the after image.
No worries, it's buried somewhere in the disorganized description.
Sitting at fireplaces is now conditional. They need to be lit first. Similarly, you need to extinguish a campsite first before destroying it. You can't access the skill menu without lighting a fire first. If tried without this mod, it would just print an error message anyways. As for beds, I optionally removed the ability to sit or lie down on them. I found this meshed best with the way beds worked in the vanilla game. My main goal in editing all of this was simply to make Campfire feel less like a mod, if you know what I mean.
However, there is an optional file to revert that last change.
Personally, I'm kinda ambivalent about this particular change -- decreasing the clutter of the menu is really really nice (wish it had a better way of utilizing functionality than a horizontal menu dialog -- something more contextual, maybe? Bleh), but we are losing a bit more than just cosmetics. Sitting or laying down is actually useful if you're not fatigued and freezing in very cold areas in the game, as the tents capture more heat from campfires than just the campfire alone would (Campfire's "You can't seem to get any warmer" or equivalent message about the fire's heat not being trapped or somesuch is the nudge for this) and regaining that body temperature happens much faster than an hour long sleep/wait.
A good place to try this is just outside of Windhelm with Frostfall + Campfire using a fur tent.
Good that there's an optional file to revert it, though.
Why does every single mod on here that has a cool, useable, functional central idea have to have feature creep?
"I've written a mod that rewords the dialogue options in Campfire to be more immersive and consistent with Skyrim."
"Awesome, I'm all over tha-"
"Also, it removes fur plates as a crafting resource. This means that any mods dependant on Campfire that use fur plates are incompatible. It's not like Campfire is made as the core module for a lot of other extensions."
"Okay that's a deal breaker."
"Don't worry, I have a patch for it."
"Right, well, it seems like the backwards way to do things-"
"But the patch may be glitchy, I haven't tested it, and it assumes you have this other mod installed."
"..."
"Oh, and I've removed the option to lie down or toggle the lantern from the dialogues. But there's another patch to add that back in."
This problem isn't unique to you, but my goodness it's annoying. Do your central feature and then make optional add-ons that do more! It's more customisable for players, reduces patchwork coding, and it's less prone to breaking compatibility with other mods.
Within the spoiler is a long-winded response that was supposed to be informative, but upon re-reading, seems to be something dripping with edgy-ness. Most of the suggestions are incorporated in v1.2.
Spoiler:
Show
Hey. I understand the concern, and it's something I considered for a while before posting, but I decided to release the mod as it stands for a few reasons.
I created this mod simply to correct what bothered me about Campfire. I never intended to release it while I was making it (as I'm sure is the case for many creators), but I decided after going through the trouble that there's bound to be others who are bothered by the same things as myself. That lead to a pretty big dilemma however: how do I title my mod?
Ultimately my goal was to make it more similar to the base game. The Campfire mod adds so much to the game just by easing the transition between day and night while exploring the wilderness; it gives you something to do in-character to pass the time, instead of simply touching the 'wait' key and skipping ahead. However, I didn't like how messy some of the menus were, or how the item names differed from everything else, how it introduced crafting recipes that used materials exclusive from any base game recipe. And after taking the hours to fix and test all of that, I realized I had what I wanted, but I didn't really know what to call it. Is it as simple as calling it "Campfire QoL Tweaks", or "Campfire Annoyance Removal", or "Campfire: Vanilla Edition"? I felt that any of those sort of set up the expectation that I meddled with the scripts, or added substantial bug-fixes, or were some sort of clean improvement that EVERYONE needs to have. But this mod is really not that. It's mostly a text edit.
So after posting the mod, I realized that I could take maybe an hour to post some optional files for those who aren't keen on some of the tweaks. I enjoy that aspect most about modding. The main file is my version of the best way to enjoy Campfire, but if you're not keen on it, you can easily remove some of the features I assumed would be controversial.
I really appreciate that you read the description. I did what I could to ensure that everyone downloading this would do so. I mention something about Fur Plates on one of the Main Files so that people will think "What on earth is he talking about?" and go read about it. I hope I've been successful in this regard.
So to actual address what you've said.
The central feature of this mod, in my eyes, is that it makes Campfire more vanilla-like, both in text and function. The latter is optionally removed. I do not understand how having it be the reverse, i.e. making the function an optional add-on, makes my mod substantially "more customisable for players".
I'm not sure what you mean by "patchwork coding". If you just mean that it makes the mod difficult to maintain, I'm inclined to disagree. If you mean that it makes it harder for other authors to make amendments, I'm curious what sort of modifications you have in mind that would benefit from splitting the file into segments.
There is no way, to my knowledge, that I could structure my mod to avoid "breaking compatibility with other mods". If you've been modding for a while, you've probably in-the-know about how conflict-resolution works. For example, in this mod I changed Fur Armor recipes to produce items from the base game. Now say you have a mod that changes this same Fur Armor recipe to need an extra Leather or something. Now, ONLY the lowest-loaded plugin will have an effect on the armor -- without patching, you have pick between the extra Leather or the changed product; not both. The only way to fix this is to create a patch that merges both changes, and to load it after both conflicts. This is an issue with all mods; everything needs a patch. Thankfully, I made my mod work for both the base game and for CCOR. If there's another mod that needs a patch, let me know. I can't pre-emptively patch other mods that I'm not aware of.
Finally, I'm not sure where you're getting the quote: "But the patch may be glitchy, I haven't tested it, and it assumes you have this other mod installed." I'm assuming you're referring to the description of the optional file Restore Fur Plates, which reads: "Not tested or recommended. May have inconsistencies, but despite minor edits, this is largely the original Campfire experience." This tells you two things. The first is that I haven't personally tested this file. You can see that my first attempt at making a Vanilla-Only version of this mod had this disclaimer, but after someone told me about an issue, and I fixed it, I removed the disclaimer from the newest version. To me, this reads as: "Be prudent to test this first before starting a serious game." Secondly, the whole bit about "inconsistencies" refers to problems in the original Campfire mod; not the mod you're about to download. It restores Chesko's original functions: werewolves give less plates than than they arguably should, goat hide might not show up in the crafting menu, and other things I'm sure to have forgotten. Finally, I'm not sure why you're upset that an optional file requires the main file.
Thanks for the feedback. If this mod even expands beyond the scope that it's in, I'll be sure to consider making it more modular. If you're worried about compatibility issues, be sure to install the optional files right after the main file. But I'm not privy to other mods that conflict with my own, so I don't believe the worry is strictly necessary. I'd love to hear other opinions on this, and I'm sure that the description be improved, but I'd need to hear exactly how. I've done the best I can, in my mind, to inform users of what this mod does; and I believe I've also provided optional files that allow whatever customization is desired.
I don't know if this is some kind of a glitch, but '_Camp_RecipeLeatherValeDeerHideDLC1 [COBJ:0A041B46]' (also the Vale sabre cat one) requires one sweetroll to craft lol funnily enough this is an issue in the original Campfire. Thought I'd let you know as it is carried over to your mod, using non-CCOR version
Don't worry, it's not a bug. I noticed it as well and looked into it. (But thank you for asking about it.)
It would seem that the recipe works fine in-game even with this oddity. I'm assuming that Chesko has some sort of script included in Campfire that corrects this while the game is running, and likely did so to ensure that Dawnguard was not a strict requirement. Of course, this would have been implemented back on the Legacy edition of the game that didn't have all of the DLC included. But now that that isn't a problem, I did decide to add a conditional to that recipe so that it only shows up if you have the required materials, as is the case with most other non-DLC recipes.
33 comments
- Is that patch still needed?
- How should the load order be?
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ip5w2p/stress_testing_skyrim_why_the_limit_for_esl_files/
Part 4 is kind of what I am talking about here but the whole post is a worthwhile read if you are looking to esl some mods.
I compacted the form id's in xedit and flagged the esp as an esl. After that I booted up the game took an alternate start to the inn in solitude and proceeded to wait 24hrs then go check the Bits and pieces merchant. I did this like 10 times and everytime the backpack variety shuffled and I didnt get a ton of backpacks accruing in the inventory but like i said earlier i could be completely wrong and this is due to something else.
in the meantime tldr i esl'd the mod with the script fix still there and it seems to still work as the script calls editor id's not form id's
To clarify for anyone reading this at a glance:At present, you can choose between having a .ESP version of my mod which includes a fix for a minor bug present in the original Campfire, or having an .ESL file of my mod which does not include this particular fix. My recommendation is currently to use the .ESP version unless you have Eremite installed.
My guess would be that you do not have one of the prerequisite mods installed. The CCOR version of this mod requires the Campfire patch fromthis page.Edit: This should be fixed in the newest version.
But I disagree with the backpack change, if the word backpack comes first it makes it nicer when you filter by name in your inventory, as it then places all your backpacks together
Thank you :D
This has been corrected in v1.2. (Please read the changelog as I have isolated all meddling with Fur Plates to it's own seperate .ESP.)
EDIT: Yep, that was all on me - it was fine to begin with. I've uploaded a new version to fix this. Really, thanks for letting me know!
Sitting at fireplaces is now conditional. They need to be lit first.
Similarly, you need to extinguish a campsite first before destroying it.
You can't access the skill menu without lighting a fire first. If tried without this mod, it would just print an error message anyways.
As for beds, I optionally removed the ability to sit or lie down on them. I found this meshed best with the way beds worked in the vanilla game. My main goal in editing all of this was simply to make Campfire feel less like a mod, if you know what I mean.
However, there is an optional file to revert that last change.
A good place to try this is just outside of Windhelm with Frostfall + Campfire using a fur tent.
Good that there's an optional file to revert it, though.
"I've written a mod that rewords the dialogue options in Campfire to be more immersive and consistent with Skyrim."
"Awesome, I'm all over tha-"
"Also, it removes fur plates as a crafting resource. This means that any mods dependant on Campfire that use fur plates are incompatible. It's not like Campfire is made as the core module for a lot of other extensions."
"Okay that's a deal breaker."
"Don't worry, I have a patch for it."
"Right, well, it seems like the backwards way to do things-"
"But the patch may be glitchy, I haven't tested it, and it assumes you have this other mod installed."
"..."
"Oh, and I've removed the option to lie down or toggle the lantern from the dialogues. But there's another patch to add that back in."
This problem isn't unique to you, but my goodness it's annoying. Do your central feature and then make optional add-ons that do more! It's more customisable for players, reduces patchwork coding, and it's less prone to breaking compatibility with other mods.
I created this mod simply to correct what bothered me about Campfire. I never intended to release it while I was making it (as I'm sure is the case for many creators), but I decided after going through the trouble that there's bound to be others who are bothered by the same things as myself. That lead to a pretty big dilemma however: how do I title my mod?
Ultimately my goal was to make it more similar to the base game. The Campfire mod adds so much to the game just by easing the transition between day and night while exploring the wilderness; it gives you something to do in-character to pass the time, instead of simply touching the 'wait' key and skipping ahead. However, I didn't like how messy some of the menus were, or how the item names differed from everything else, how it introduced crafting recipes that used materials exclusive from any base game recipe. And after taking the hours to fix and test all of that, I realized I had what I wanted, but I didn't really know what to call it. Is it as simple as calling it "Campfire QoL Tweaks", or "Campfire Annoyance Removal", or "Campfire: Vanilla Edition"? I felt that any of those sort of set up the expectation that I meddled with the scripts, or added substantial bug-fixes, or were some sort of clean improvement that EVERYONE needs to have. But this mod is really not that. It's mostly a text edit.
So after posting the mod, I realized that I could take maybe an hour to post some optional files for those who aren't keen on some of the tweaks. I enjoy that aspect most about modding. The main file is my version of the best way to enjoy Campfire, but if you're not keen on it, you can easily remove some of the features I assumed would be controversial.
I really appreciate that you read the description. I did what I could to ensure that everyone downloading this would do so. I mention something about Fur Plates on one of the Main Files so that people will think "What on earth is he talking about?" and go read about it. I hope I've been successful in this regard.
So to actual address what you've said.
- The central feature of this mod, in my eyes, is that it makes Campfire more vanilla-like, both in text and function. The latter is optionally removed. I do not understand how having it be the reverse, i.e. making the function an optional add-on, makes my mod substantially "more customisable for players".
- I'm not sure what you mean by "patchwork coding". If you just mean that it makes the mod difficult to maintain, I'm inclined to disagree. If you mean that it makes it harder for other authors to make amendments, I'm curious what sort of modifications you have in mind that would benefit from splitting the file into segments.
There is no way, to my knowledge, that I could structure my mod to avoid "breaking compatibility with other mods". If you've been modding for a while, you've probably in-the-know about how conflict-resolution works. For example, in this mod I changed Fur Armor recipes to produce items from the base game. Now say you have a mod that changes this same Fur Armor recipe to need an extra Leather or something. Now, ONLY the lowest-loaded plugin will have an effect on the armor -- without patching, you have pick between the extra Leather or the changed product; not both. The only way to fix this is to create a patch that merges both changes, and to load it after both conflicts. This is an issue with all mods; everything needs a patch. Thankfully, I made my mod work for both the base game and for CCOR. If there's another mod that needs a patch, let me know. I can't pre-emptively patch other mods that I'm not aware of.Finally, I'm not sure where you're getting the quote:
"But the patch may be glitchy, I haven't tested it, and it assumes you have this other mod installed."
I'm assuming you're referring to the description of the optional file Restore Fur Plates, which reads:
"Not tested or recommended. May have inconsistencies, but despite minor edits, this is largely the original Campfire experience."
This tells you two things. The first is that I haven't personally tested this file. You can see that my first attempt at making a Vanilla-Only version of this mod had this disclaimer, but after someone told me about an issue, and I fixed it, I removed the disclaimer from the newest version. To me, this reads as: "Be prudent to test this first before starting a serious game."
Secondly, the whole bit about "inconsistencies" refers to problems in the original Campfire mod; not the mod you're about to download. It restores Chesko's original functions: werewolves give less plates than than they arguably should, goat hide might not show up in the crafting menu, and other things I'm sure to have forgotten.
Finally, I'm not sure why you're upset that an optional file requires the main file.
Thanks for the feedback. If this mod even expands beyond the scope that it's in, I'll be sure to consider making it more modular. If you're worried about compatibility issues, be sure to install the optional files right after the main file. But I'm not privy to other mods that conflict with my own, so I don't believe the worry is strictly necessary. I'd love to hear other opinions on this, and I'm sure that the description be improved, but I'd need to hear exactly how. I've done the best I can, in my mind, to inform users of what this mod does; and I believe I've also provided optional files that allow whatever customization is desired.
It would seem that the recipe works fine in-game even with this oddity. I'm assuming that Chesko has some sort of script included in Campfire that corrects this while the game is running, and likely did so to ensure that Dawnguard was not a strict requirement. Of course, this would have been implemented back on the Legacy edition of the game that didn't have all of the DLC included. But now that that isn't a problem, I did decide to add a conditional to that recipe so that it only shows up if you have the required materials, as is the case with most other non-DLC recipes.