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Arthmoor

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  1. Arthmoor
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    Version 2.0.5

    Corrected a minor issue with the navmesh near Golldir's house.
  2. kranazoli
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    Hi Arthmoor,

    Now, I use all of Villages mods, alongside other mods from you.
    I saw, which village mod got the more endorsed, and that was Ivarstead. So, that's why I wrote my question at here:

    You have 1000x more knowledge about modding, than me.

    Why don't you upload an ESP-FE version of your mods or ESL version?
    (Ok, ESL version could have some issue - about the article ESP-FE and ESL)
    But, what's the reason against ESPFE.

    Sadly, I can't flag your mods as an ESL file, cos they don't get the [FE xxx] version.
    And, sadly all of your mods a minus from the 255 plugin limit.

    I understand that ESP-FE and ESL are "new" idea, solution, etc...

    And, I know you are a so-called old hand person. But don't you plan to upload an alternative version of your mods?
    (which are maybe can't cause any trouble)

    If not, may ask, why? Cos, in that case, I am sure this by reason.

    Thank You!
    1. Arthmoor
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      I don't plan to update them to be ESL flagged because you can't update them on existing saves without breaking things and I have no intention of doing that to people. Especially when about 0.5% of the mod using public heeds the necessary warnings not to use the updates on existing saves. Nobody sane has time enough to deal with the fallout from that.

      I also see no reason why a mod that contains full scale content like one of my villages needs to be ESL flagged when that's better suited for use in compatibility patches and other small scale mods.
    2. kranazoli
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      I see, that majority of people didn't read, and also that in this case the best way to start a new game. That's what I am planning to do.
      (and I guess, I am not the only one)

      "I also see no reason why a mod that contains full scale content like one of my villages needs to be ESL flagged when that's better suited for use in compatibility patches and other small scale mods."

      Sry. I didn't get it.
      The reason is, just count with your villages mods it's cost approx 13 ESP slot, from the 255 limits. Of course, I have flagged every [FE xxx] plugins of main with ESP-FE. And with your other mods it could be approx 20 or more ESP slot.

      I do understand, not to merge. (Partly)

      Shortly, the main reason is, that you can do it, and it would really useful for players like us, how are building a new mod list, and before started to play the game. That's all.

      Sadly, I do not know, how should I make those mods for ESP-FE. My knowledge is a player knowledge, maybe. So very limited I can do against the 255+ plugin limits. I like that new mod and mostly patches came with ESL flag, and an ESP and ESL version as well.

      If there is another issue, like that:

      " you can't update them on existing saves without breaking things"

      So, you know!

      But, of course, I have nothing to do. just accept your decision.

      PS: I do not think that you should take responsibility, how ESP-FE works.
      Pros and Cons always. But, I hope, you get the Pro I tried to point out.

      For a casual player, ATM merging small mods (1 ESP plugins) with zEDIT and flag [FE xxx] plugins the only way to somehow stay below the limit.
      I believe that merging is bad, I believe everything, but if merging is really a bad thing I do think Mator take the effort to zEdit merge module. (?!)
      And merging is a way older solution, than ESL and ESP-FE.

      Thank You!
    3. Arthmoor
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      Merging is and always has been a bad solution for Skyrim mods. There are no reliable tools for that purpose in this game, and I am well aware Mator will insist this isn't true. Just because he thinks that it's fine because this is how it was always done before doesn't mean he's right. He's ignoring the fact that with Oblivion we had a reliable tool for merging mods - Gecko. Oblivion also didn't have to contend with VMAD records from scripts or deal with the massive changes that navmeshes brought to the game.

      So in this case being the older solution also means it's the wrong solution. Skyrim LE can't be helped. IMO that's a lost cause for a number of other reasons besides just the inability to do functional merges. SSE and FO4 however now have a proper solution to the issue of crowding your load order full of stuff. Flag what can be flagged as ESL and there you go. No need to merge. No need to spend days fixing the mess merging makes. Just a few minutes using Wrye Bash or xEdit to set the flags and be done with it.

      Yes, there are mods you can't simply set the flag on. Mine fall into that category because they're already publicly available. Creating a situation where one set of users is just fine but the other is completely screwed is not a good policy. It's also impossible to support and will do nothing to reduce the number of patches people end up making. In fact, it would double that workload unnecessarily.

      So please try and understand that this isn't just me being set in my ways. We mod authors really do know what we're doing and have good reasons for not blindly adopting the latest fads.

      And let's not forget that this is Frankenbryo - "mod greed" isn't going to go away because of the ESL flag. In fact I see it as inadvertently encouraging that. Mod greed leads to unstable load orders due to overloading the game with content. It's a lesson a lot of users refuse to learn. IMO if you're in a position where even ESLifying my stuff isn't going to be enough, you need to stop and seriously consider if you're just trying to use too many mods.
    4. kranazoli
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      Hi,

      From the end:

      "if you're in a position where even ESLifying my stuff isn't going to be enough, you need to stop and seriously consider if you're just trying to use too many mods. "

      No. A little bit misunderstanding, I guess.
      That was just a question, I do not really understand. (Why Arthmoot does not make ESL, ESP-FE alternative mods)
      My main goal is, to use ESL or ESP-FE (flagged myself) mods, to keep pure ESP plugin number as low, as how I can.

      Now, I got your reason. And as I how wrote before, I accept it! Now, I got the proper answer to my question.

      I am a casual player. You are modders (and players, as well) There is a difference between modders and modders, as how I see.
      There are "old" modders and "new" modders. There are differences between how modders handle "liable" about its mod or mods.

      But, I can't decide whether for instance Mator or Arthmmor has the truth about merging plugins. Cos, both of you have way better knowledge.

      That's all.

      "you need to stop and seriously consider if you're just trying to use too many mods. "

      Right! ATM I am building a mod list. At the end, I will drop lot's of useless, mostly ESP mods, and other useless mods.
      I try to follow some guidelines.

      I play TESV, just from Skyrim. It's simple, earlier I just didn't understand how can people play something like "Magic" games. I found it odd.
      I am a big STALKER fun. And somebody wrote me, about Fallout 3. I really like the post-apocalyptic atmosphere. But, Fallout 3 changed my mind about open world games. (STALKER is marvelous, mainly, cos the last version was made from a Hungarian people and team. Yes, I am also from Hungary - but STALKER is not a real open world game)

      After my second favorite game let Fallout 3, why not. I give it a try to Skyrim. Just really liked how it looks like, and I thought it will be very similar to Fallout 3. And yes. More complex! But a 180 percent atmosphere. Odd! But I got used to it, and fall in love after hours, hours...

      But! Without STEP I am sure didn't start it, cos ATM I just don't know lot's of stuff and mods.
      Sadly, for SSE we do not have STEP, it was the base guide for me.

      And, just now started to play, mostly modding SSE version, after Fallout 4.

      Sry, for the long outro and really thanks for your answer!
      And really thanks all of your advice!
    5. kranazoli
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      One more thing Arthmoor.

      "I don't plan to update them to be ESL flagged because you can't update them on existing saves without breaking things and I have no intention of doing that to people."

      I got, and really thanks all of advice.
      As I wrote ATM, I am just building my mod list.

      Follow that instruction:

      Tutorial for converting small mods to the new ESL format!
      https://www.reddit.com/r/FalloutMods/comments/74e892/fo4_psa_tutorial_for_converting_small_mods_to_the/

      Just, to blame myself(!) can I make ESL file for myself?
      The only thing I didn't manage to find out is:

      Unavoidable Necessary Technical Information:
      ESL files have a limit of 2048 forms (and not the ~4000 previously reported). So, only try and convert your smaller mods.


      What mods are smaller mods? I guess not how many MB, are they.

      I will try (just for testing purposes), because I do not have existing saves, and I will test whether will your mods well or not.

      I guess it's so simple. :)
    6. Arthmoor
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      I would strongly advise you not follow anything in the information people on Reddit post. Those guys usually have no clue what they're talking about and their advice leads to breaking things far more often than it does fixing something.

      I'm sorry you think that my mods not being ESLifieid is such a critical issue but you need to come back to reality and realize that not everything can or should be converted just because it's possible. If you insist on going down this road you're on your own and will not be getting any support from me.
  3. Axeface
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    Anyone know of any grass fixes for grass mods for arthmoors towns?
    1. Arthmoor
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      Move the grass mods so they load before the villages. The problem will be solved that way,
    2. Axeface
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      Thanks for the reply Arthmoor, this is with Ivarstead loaded right at the bottom of my order though (after Veydosebrom and Landscape Fixes for Grass Mods), maybe its something specific with Veydosebrom. Im gonna look at how the patches are done and maybe do them myself.
    3. Arthmoor
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      Hmm. If that mod is altering the grass density of the landscape records I'm not sure there's much you can do about it.
    4. Axeface
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      Veydosebrom has a 'Dense Landscape' option that apparently allows grass to grown on no-grass flagged land? I thought that was how all grass mods made grass more dense? It also installs a custom ini. I have no idea what im talking about tbh :) I installed 'Landscape Fixes for Grass Mods' as Veydosebrom instructs and it fixed all the issues except for modded places like your towns or new houses. I'll keep investigating or maybe i'll just bite the bullet and install Veydosebrom with its 'Vanilla Landscape' option (but even with that I still had issues).

      Anyways, thanks again and thanks for your mods :)
    5. Arthmoor
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      Yeah, that kind of thing is simply impractical to go around patching for since every mod with any landscape work at all done would need it and it would bloat everyone's load orders.

      I don't really see any benefit in making non-grass landscape contain grass because it would result in weeds growing even under vanilla locations and would just look terrible.
    6. kranazoli
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      There is. Maybe all of them covered, but there is:

      Landscape Fixes For Grass Mods
      https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/9005?tab=files

      Patches for Arthmoor's Town add-ons
      Patches for Arthmoor's Dragon Bridge, Falkreath, Rorikstead, Shor's Stone and Provincial Courier Service

    7. Arthmoor
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      And that's all still very impractical. There is no logical reason to make non-grass landscape start growing grass. It just causes problems for thousands of mods out there for no good reason.
  4. fiskin1
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    Great work on this Arthmoor as always. Install went fine and I let LOOT deal with the load order per your request. I also installed the Ivarstead General Trader from MrRedMarshmallow and both mods work without a hitch. Now Ivarstead feels more like a town with some life in it. I can see why this got a lot of endorsements. Glad someone breathed some life into this little area. Highly recommended and endorsed.
    1. Leafchip
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      Yoooo maybe this is what I need; a general store. I just wonder if that's a bad thing for me to do -- would a general store still be afloat in a town that's dying from lack of travelers? Everyone seems to be able to provide their own food and such... would they need a store?

      In other words will I see myself as a weakling if I go check this mod out instead of running to whiterun and back?
  5. coorscollector
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    Will the new navmesh cleaning affect the JK's Skyrim patch or is it still safe to use?
    1. Arthmoor
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      That patch will probably need to be reevaluated, as I'm sure the navmeshes in JK's itself will be.
    2. sirjesto
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      Probably should ask at the page the patch comes from.
      But no, it shouldn't.
      EDIT: Ninja'd.
  6. Arthmoor
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    Version 2.0.4

    Navmesh cleaning with new versions of xEdit.
  7. dem1an
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    Forgive me, but I'm just learning SSEEdit. There are some (I think) conflicts with immersive citizens. I'm not clear on how to resolve them. Would they just be considered incompatible?
    1. calfurius
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      Both mods are compatible.
    2. Arthmoor
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      If it's navmeshes, make sure this loads after ICAO. Then there should be no problems.
    3. Khumak
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      Is the same true for the rest of your town overhauls Arthmoor (ICAO compatibility)?
    4. Arthmoor
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      Yes, they should all be treated the same way because of navmesh priority.
    5. Alphast
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      I can confirm that if you load Arthmoor Iverstead before ICAO, it becomes impossible to finish the Klimmek mini quest because Klimmek won't get outside anymore.
    6. Alphast
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      BTW, since a similar problem occurs in Left Hand Mine (that Arthmoor didn't touch in any of his mods, I believe), we'll have to assume that ICAO has some serious bugs...
    7. Arthmoor
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      Yep, which is unfortunate since in most of those cases he didn't even need to touch the navmeshes.
    8. Metaluis90
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      Sorry for necroing, but did you try it out with only both mods installed? I ask this due ICAO web page states that any mod of Ivarstead (and Left Hand Mine) are compatible with ICAO. If that is an incorrect statement it would be specially worrisome.
    9. Arthmoor
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      They are only compatible as long as you load ICAO before them. They cannot be compatible with his navmesh changes if you don't.
    10. cmgogo13
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      do thay have to be after Immersive citizens in the left or the right load order, or both?

      or are thay no longer compatiable?
    11. Arthmoor
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      Left vs Right is an MO2 issue. Load my stuff after ICAO and there won't be an issue. Since I don't use garbage like MO2 you'll have to find out if that means on the left or on the right.
  8. diablos2525
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    Hi Xbox user here, I was wondering if anyone could tell me how compatible the ELFX Exteriors module is with Arthmoors village expansions? Thank you.
  9. Arthmoor
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    Version 2.0.3

    Moved Golldir into an alias controlled by the mod so that other mods don't usurp his AI and cause him to remain stuck at the tomb.
    Removed edits to his NPC record and added dependency on USSEP in order to maintain the necessary unique flag required for the alias to work. This should result in less compatibility issues.
  10. Gibo23
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    Is this compatible with JK's Skyrim? Nice mod btw :)
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