Welcome to the second shop overhaul in the JK's Whiterun interiors series for the SSE. Now go explore, there's a little more to see than shown in the images! The ESP have been cleaned with the SSEEdit auto clean feature and flagged as an ESL, so it doesn't count towards the ESP limit. Big kudos to Teabag86 for the testing and ideas.
I love JKs mods, I got them all. But ever since I got this one Belethor, bless his heart. Is suddenly, quite mean. He calls me a discriminating customer and other times he tells me to get out and that im not wanted. AFTER we done business. Its okay, Ill just pretend hes going through tough times at home, as I was headed out of the shop anyways.
Love your mods! I use just about every single interior overhaul. Quick question since I can't seem to find it here: Is there any reason why Belethor's shop decorations won't respawn? I didn't steal anything, I bought him out of a lot of supplies that takes away from the displayed inventory around the shop and even after re-installing, reloading, waiting 2 days and exiting/re-entering his shop, all his shelves remain empty :/ Could another mod be conflicting with his shop inventory respawning displayed goods?
Thank you JK for making such a great interior overhaul series for Whiterun. Unfortunately, I am running into a minor, reproducible problem with both this mod, as well as your Arcadia's Cauldron overhaul. When entering either interior and standing at the entrance door, their respective owners (Belethor and Arcadia) leave from behind their counter to come slightly closer to the player, and then they just stand there, watching the player. This looks like it's the same behavior that NPCs normally do when the player enters their private rooms, like their bedrooms. But with the interior overhauls installed, this usually happens (90% of the time) right at the entrance. They just don't seem to like staying behind their counters anymore, and instead keep following and watching the player.
Is it possible for you to look into it? I wonder if this is an isolated issue only applying to my loadorder.
Edit: Happens to Ulfberth War-Bear with the newly released JK's Warmaiden's as well.
This mod doesn't change Belethor, his AI package, the building size or the navmesh at all. He has the default SandboxAndKeepEyeOn [PACK:0006C872] AI package which isn't touched by this mod.
Thank you for your response Teabag. I'm aware that this mod doesn't touch merchant NPC records nor their AI packages, but I nonetheless keep encountering this issue even on a completely new MO2 profile (and a completely fresh save) with nothing enabled but: - Engine Fixes - USSEP - SkyUI - SkyUI widescreen fix - Alternate Start - JK's Arcadia's Cauldron, JK's Belethor's General Goods, JK's Warmaiden's
As soon as I disable JK's mods, the issue vanishes. It's very odd. I've since opened a detailed bug report on JK's Warmaiden's Nexus page and hope that this issue is reproducible for other users than purplis and me. It's not game-breaking because the NPCs can still be interacted with, but their behavior gets pretty awkward, as described. Looks like their regular behavior gets interrupted by something, and then they just keep watching the player character as they leave from behind the counter.
THe same happens with me. It's similar behaviour to how shopkeepers will come and follow you if you go into the backs of their shops or bedrooms or anywhere they think you aren't supposed to be. Maybe they no longer recognize that boundary?
I could be talking out of my ass but it might be a problem with visibility. In oblivion, if you went behind an object and out of the shopkeepers view, they would reposition themselves so they could see you no matter where you are in the store. I think this might be the same thing in Skyrim.
So the problem could be a wall/beam/object blocking the shopkeepers view to you.
What spycakeman said. I think it's an issue with visibility. If you stand directly in front of his line of site, he's okay. Once you move say a little to the left or right, he gets nervous and practically runs around the corner, watching every little thing you do.
It's visibility. The packages weren't touched at all. I checked in the ck as well as xEdit.It's the posts and line of site. If you stand straight in the center, they stay behind the counter. Once you move a little to the left or right, even though it seems like they can see you, the posts and archways block their view (To them it's as if the posts and certain objects are just a solid wall) so they walk around and start to follow. Vanilla behavior and can't be fixed unless the author redoes the interior and takes them out.
I know with Belethor's, when you walk, he stays where he is. In that store, there's a display in the middle of the room. If you were to just go around the display even a little bit, he can't see you and starts to follow. Same if you start to walk up, if you approach at a slight angle than the window, they can't see you and run around to get you in their line of site.It may be that the mesh for those weren't designed to be scaled down so small for NPC's to see through. Initially, those posts and arches are the large ones you see in whiterun and the great hall for dragonsreach. Anyhow, hope this helps some people who are having that experience.
Happy gaming,
-Mush-
Edit - I ran a modded patch with the posts and archways removed, went in game, and belethor didn't follow. only time he started to move around the counter was when I walked around the center display. so, confirmed, it's line of site. No bug, it's how the game is supposed to be.
To the author: I say, leave it as is. I'm loving these interior mods. Thank you for this. Major kudos and keep up the great work.
So this is still an "issue"? :( It's just weird to see you make these lovely little counters for them to stand behind but the moment you enter any of the 4 interiors the owners come running up as if you entered their private homes.
This happens to me on a clean install of Skyrim with zero other mods except USSEP... *and* AI Overhaul.
When I disable AI Overhaul, Belethor does not follow me at all, even with his line of sight being blocked by the displays. Im too noob to know what's going on, but the current AI Overhaul patch for JK's Belethors only corrects an idle marker. I tested on the modlist Althro's Dev Tools, so these are genuinely the only plugins I have installed.
It does seem to be a line of sight issue somehow, but that line of sight issue, for me, does not exist when AI Overhaul is removed. But obviously we want AI Overhaul. :shrug: idk
It's not something I've encountered, but I can say the new clutter JK added is set up the same way as the vanilla clutter, with ownership assigned to ServicesWhiterunBelethorsGoods "Belethor's Goods" [FACT:0009CAF5]. So if it's all disappearing when Belethor is killed, that's either vanilla functionality (made more obvious by all the additional clutter), or there's another mod responsible.
For an in-game explanation, Belethor had massive gambling debts, which his goods all went to service.
Generally, if you're using a specific modlist it's best to try to get support from the list itself - if it's consistent across people on the list, they'll want to know, and if it's not, it's indicative that you either went off-list somewhere (in which case folks familiar with the list could help you depending on what you've done, since they know how things "should" be), or maybe messed up installing one step (in which case folks familiar with the list might have seen it before and can help point you in the right direction).
Individual mod authors can't really help you, especially with general "hey, I'm crashing" issues and no additional info.
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I have a slight problem everything works but Belethor rests with his arms at the default location in the air to the right when you enter and i dont know what could have caused this since it was that way when i first installed it (including needed patches when required)
108 comments
Welcome to the second shop overhaul in the JK's Whiterun interiors series for the SSE. Now go explore, there's a little more to see than shown in the images!
The ESP have been cleaned with the SSEEdit auto clean feature and flagged as an ESL, so it doesn't count towards the ESP limit.
Big kudos to Teabag86 for the testing and ideas.
Its okay, Ill just pretend hes going through tough times at home, as I was headed out of the shop anyways.
Thank you JK for making such a great interior overhaul series for Whiterun. Unfortunately, I am running into a minor, reproducible problem with both this mod, as well as your Arcadia's Cauldron overhaul. When entering either interior and standing at the entrance door, their respective owners (Belethor and Arcadia) leave from behind their counter to come slightly closer to the player, and then they just stand there, watching the player. This looks like it's the same behavior that NPCs normally do when the player enters their private rooms, like their bedrooms. But with the interior overhauls installed, this usually happens (90% of the time) right at the entrance. They just don't seem to like staying behind their counters anymore, and instead keep following and watching the player.
Is it possible for you to look into it? I wonder if this is an isolated issue only applying to my loadorder.
Edit: Happens to Ulfberth War-Bear with the newly released JK's Warmaiden's as well.
I'm aware that this mod doesn't touch merchant NPC records nor their AI packages, but I nonetheless keep encountering this issue even on a completely new MO2 profile (and a completely fresh save) with nothing enabled but:
- Engine Fixes
- USSEP
- SkyUI
- SkyUI widescreen fix
- Alternate Start
- JK's Arcadia's Cauldron, JK's Belethor's General Goods, JK's Warmaiden's
As soon as I disable JK's mods, the issue vanishes. It's very odd. I've since opened a detailed bug report on JK's Warmaiden's Nexus page and hope that this issue is reproducible for other users than purplis and me. It's not game-breaking because the NPCs can still be interacted with, but their behavior gets pretty awkward, as described. Looks like their regular behavior gets interrupted by something, and then they just keep watching the player character as they leave from behind the counter.
In oblivion, if you went behind an object and out of the shopkeepers view, they would reposition themselves so they could see you no matter where you are in the store.
I think this might be the same thing in Skyrim.
So the problem could be a wall/beam/object blocking the shopkeepers view to you.
I know with Belethor's, when you walk, he stays where he is. In that store, there's a display in the middle of the room. If you were to just go around the display even a little bit, he can't see you and starts to follow. Same if you start to walk up, if you approach at a slight angle than the window, they can't see you and run around to get you in their line of site.It may be that the mesh for those weren't designed to be scaled down so small for NPC's to see through. Initially, those posts and arches are the large ones you see in whiterun and the great hall for dragonsreach.
Anyhow, hope this helps some people who are having that experience.
Happy gaming,
-Mush-
Edit - I ran a modded patch with the posts and archways removed, went in game, and belethor didn't follow. only time he started to move around the counter was when I walked around the center display. so, confirmed, it's line of site. No bug, it's how the game is supposed to be.
To the author: I say, leave it as is. I'm loving these interior mods. Thank you for this. Major kudos and keep up the great work.
When I disable AI Overhaul, Belethor does not follow me at all, even with his line of sight being blocked by the displays. Im too noob to know what's going on, but the current AI Overhaul patch for JK's Belethors only corrects an idle marker. I tested on the modlist Althro's Dev Tools, so these are genuinely the only plugins I have installed.
It does seem to be a line of sight issue somehow, but that line of sight issue, for me, does not exist when AI Overhaul is removed. But obviously we want AI Overhaul. :shrug: idk
For an in-game explanation, Belethor had massive gambling debts, which his goods all went to service.
Individual mod authors can't really help you, especially with general "hey, I'm crashing" issues and no additional info.
One nitpick comment, I have to keep going around the table and knock stuff off. So, do the NPCS. You might want give a tweak to that stand's position.