Skyrim Special Edition
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  1. NolseFTW
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    Hello,

    Really coold mod, I personaly have tweaked it a little bit to personal preference.
    Do you know if this mod is compatible with your mod ? : Encounter Zones Unlocked SE (skse mod)

    And what about Skyrim Revamped - Loot and Encounter Zones (SRLEZ) ? (Well, I think this mod is a bit too much for me anyway, change too much I'm guessing)
    And can I use them all, or SRLEZ and Encounter Zones Unlocked overlap ?

    (If I understand correctly, there is a level range for every faction, and also for every zone ? And they both influence the level of the ennemy in a dungeon for example ? Looks complicated)

    Thanks for all
    1. NolseFTW
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      Well now I think Encounter Zones Unlocked SE will actually sync the zone level range to my level, everytime, like ennemy will always be my level, all the time ? That sound stupid, I don't know if I really want this mod now ..)

      Basically I just want skyrim vanilla, but no lvl 1 draugr, and, like you said in the description, ennemy that follow my level, but can still be slightly below or slightly above me.

      edit : Well I think it only sync levels when the cells are resetted. I play with a low timescale so I guess it's not a bad idea (but tbh, I don't really re-visit dungeons that I've already finished in a playthrouh ^^)

      Ahhhh, so many options, so many combinations
    2. tjhm4
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      Hey, I'm going to try to answer your questions, but it sounds like you don't fully understand how the engine chooses enemies, so I'd do a bit more reading too.

      > Do you know if this mod is compatible with your mod ? : Encounter Zones Unlocked SE (skse mod)
      Yes they are 100% compatible.

      > And what about Skyrim Revamped - Loot and Encounter Zones (SRLEZ) ?
      Yes, 100% compatible. I use them together and love it. The releveler will diminish the importance of EZ levels, so you won't notice those changes from SRLEZ so much, but it's loot changes are excellent.

      > (If I understand correctly, there is a level range for every faction, and also for every zone ? And they both influence the level of the ennemy in a dungeon for example ? Looks complicated)
      Kinda, though level range of factions does not directly affect the level of the enemy you encounter. Do some more reading. But the tl;dr is that high level dungeons contain high rank enemies, low level dungeons contain low rank enemies, in vanilla enemies do not level with you, but dungeons do. So as you get better dungeons are populated with higher rank enemies. The releveler changes the level of each enemy rank.

      > Well now I think Encounter Zones Unlocked SE will actually sync the zone level range to my level, everytime, like ennemy will always be my level, all the time ?
      No. EZs will still be capped by their lower and upper bounds. And, EZ level does not directly determine the level of enemies that you encounter (remember enemies don't level, only dungeons do), it just determines what distribution of ranks you encounter.

      > Basically I just want skyrim vanilla, but no lvl 1 draugr, and, like you said in the description, ennemy that follow my level, but can still be slightly below or slightly above me.
      Enemy Releveler might be too punishing for you. It feels very different to vanilla. For instance, by default, low level draugr are level 16. Still, give it a go and see what you think. If you find it too much, try Arena by simonmagus. It is much more vanilla-esque, though I think the releveler is better.

      > I don't really re-visit dungeons that I've already finished in a playthrouh
      Me neither, so EZ unlocked will have no observable effect.
    3. NolseFTW
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      Thanks for all, it's really interesting. Yeah the rank of ennemis makes sense for the encounter zones, like instead of standard draugr it would be dragon priest or any big draugr "boss"

      Yeah the default settings were a bit tough imo, especially when you have lvl.20 draugr/skeletons in Bleaks Fall Barrow, when you're level 2 or 3.

      I've changed their minimal level to 10, and slightly lowered minimal level of dragons also.

      It looks good so far.

      Well I think your other mod know your ennemy will be way more interesting than any tweaked encounter zone mod. Well it will help, but it's never perfect.

      It's true that the loot changes from SRLEZ looks really good also.

      You say that it's very different than vanilla, but it's still the same system, just harder (and smarter) values, no ? As I can see it the config file.
      Well anyway just the fact that's it's not fully scaled everytime (would be dumb imo, then delete levels entirely) or completely fixed, looks good for me


      (BTW, first time I see a modder answering so much to ppl, normally they are complaining about how users are not "kind", we will say, which I can totally understand, but you are more profesionnal than most "support center", so thanks for your dedication)
      (I'm not english so I'm maybe not using the good words)
    4. tjhm4
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      I agree that the gameplay mechanics are still totally vanilla, but part of vanilla's ethos is "go anywhere at any time" and that is not at all possible with the releveler. So in that way its a big departure from vanilla. In the same way, vanilla aims for "play however you want", but that conflicts with Know Your Enemy as now some enemies are immune to certain attacks.
    5. NolseFTW
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      Oh right, makes sense, well I guess it will do what I need then, perfect.
      I'm not against so more challenge

      Especially know you ennemy looks so interesting, just I hope that the weakness and all are "logic" and that I will find them without really thinking much, and without needing to check the whole pdf
      It can look a bit complex when reading the mod desc, but I guess it's logic when you are in game. If it follows the lore it should be easy and logic I guess

      Thanks, I will stop wasting your time now x)
  2. 000000008
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    What settings do you recomend for mods that add new variations of creatures?(SIC with higher level Draugrs Variants)
    1. tjhm4
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      I don't use new creature mods so can't say from experience, but the default settings are probably fine as they will apply to all mod added NPCs too. So if vanilla enemies range from lvl 10 to 20, and mod added enemies are at level 30, and the releveler's rule is [10 -> 20] -> [5 -> 10], then vanilla enemies will range between levels 5 and 10, while the mod added enemies will be set to level 15. This way they move with the vanilla enemies even though they are outside of the vanilla range.
  3. bananamoonpie
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    I love all of your mods, they're amazing.

    Any chance you could do another patcher like this, but for encounter zones?

    Also, what's the order of doing the patchers for this and the NPC Stat Rescaler?

    Again, thank you so much and keep it up!
    1. tjhm4
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      Thanks for the kind words. An EZ patcher is probably do-able, but I'm not sure it would be as good as you want. Unless you're really changing the releveler config the EZs matter much less for difficulty than they did before. There's also loads of really good EZ mods anyway, so you're probably best just plugging one in and playing (I really like SRLEZ). What did you want to achieve with EZs?

      Order doesn't matter, but just don't use the "build all" button in zEdit and build the patches one at a time instead.
  4. Bigslim2014
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    Is it possible to rescale the level of members of factions, like The Companions, Dark Brotherhood, Guards etc...? I'm trying to do it but it doesn't seem to be working in game. I'd like to set the minimum level of the members of The Circle to 25, the level of the guards to vary between 5-25, and Civil War soldiers to 10-50. Other thing that I'm bit worried is about patching to use in a existing game, is it work? First time I use the mod I had some trouble when I met skeletons while I was hunting near Hamvir's Rest; then I edit the .js and patched it again, but the skeletons were still at level 18.

    P.S.: Great job!
    1. tjhm4
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      Once enemies are already encountered, rerunning the patcher won't always change them because they can end up stored in your save. It will affect new areas though, and old areas once they respawn. In general running the patcher while your save is in an otherwise empty cell (ie. no NPCs) typically works for me, even for previously encountered NPCs.

      As for the circle, etc, that should be do-able. For the circle you probably want the class CompanionsCirclePlusKodlak though you'll need to look up its form id etc. For the rest of the companions CompanionsFactionMinusBrillAndVignar. For the thieves guild ThievesGuildFaction. You probably want to add these near the top of the list as it is in priority order (i.e. the circle should be above regular companions, otherwise they'll all be treated as regular companions).
    2. Bigslim2014
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      I've done as you told and It worked only after I disable MLU! Thank you for the quick reply.
    3. tjhm4
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      Great, glad you got it working. I wonder why it didn't work until you disabled MLU. It's possible that MLU messes up NPC factions, but that seems pretty extreme. If you're looking for an alternative to MLU, I recommend SRLEZ.
  5. aradjha
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    If you came here from Thoughtful Skyrim, here are a few things to consider: When you open SRCEO you will find that it adds new higher level enemies, for several of the factions.
    Bandit Boss now has a max level of 44.
    Draugr Boss now has a max level of 65.
    Warlock Boss now have a max level of 85
    Vampire Boss now has a max level of 95
    And the highest Dremora I saw was level 40
    And the Highest Hagraven was level 50. Apparently they can go higher, but I didn't see that...
    These will still show up if the Encounter Zone you are in has its level set high enough. But likely only a few will show up, the rest will be squashed down according to this mod.

    I'm only just starting to understand the problem with modded EZs. For example, MLU puts most of their mins in the 30s, way above the level of a neophyte adventurer; even for bandits. You can expect to meet SRCEO lvl 31 bandit varieties in such a bandit forteress.

    It seems to me the minimums for EZs should be moderate; it is the upper tiers which should be hardcore, and they should reset. (There's a mod for that.) I think it's appropriate that a level 5 or 6 character, essentially a neophyte, but with a few key skills, should be able to graduate from spiders and skeevers, especially with multiple party members. They should be able to take easy radiant quests. How do you tweak these settings to get the maximum playtime out of a given zone difficulty?

    If the minimum EZ is low, say, 14. and you are that level or lower; then in vanilla you will not see Plunderers and Marauders, even as bosses, until you are of the appropriate level; 25. With this mod you will meet them and they will be much much weaker. Leading to the expectation that you can take on bandits. But Suprise! Some bandits are level 31 and 44; way above the Releveler's grasp; they will still be level 31 and 44. But am I correct to assume that you will not see these enemies until you yourself are level 31? And if you wander into a lvl 36 bandit fort, you may not be able to clear it until the mid 20s, on account of the level 31 bandit present regardless of what level you yourself are. But if you simply squash him down to 15; then when you actually are at level 30 bandits will seem like cardboard criminals, and you will wonder why the guard haven't killed them all... Encounter Zone levels and Releveled squashing... How do you tweak these settings to get the maximum playtime out of a given zone difficulty?

    1. tjhm4
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      Yes, SRCEO adds a bunch of higher level enemies. I'm actually thinking of dropping it from the next update of Thoughtful Skyrim because the "bosses" (e.g. dragon priests) are excessive. These enemies will still be affected by the releveler though; just because they start outside the expected range doesn't mean the releveler ignores them, the rule applies as usual and they similarly end up outside the finishing range.

      As for EZs, I think you should read the mod page a few more times (you might also want to read the mod page for simonmagus' Arena) as you've not quite figured it out. Here's some comments on your comments:

      > "MLU puts most of their mins in the 30s, way above the level of a neophyte adventurer; even for bandits. You can expect to meet SRCEO lvl 31 bandit varieties in such a bandit forteress."
      Yes, but only for the hard/boss enemies, most NPCs will be much lower. Also, with the releveler none of this matters: all bandits get compressed way lower, so even a lvl 30 bandit dungeon will be full of lvl 2 to 16 bandits.

      > "It seems to me the minimums for EZs should be moderate; it is the upper tiers which should be hardcore, and they should reset."
      This all hinges on whether you want a scaling or fixed world. I like a fixed world (although it does mean I can't go to draugr dungeons for.a while). If you want a scaling world I'd just stick with vanilla, though you can try Arena instead. If using Arena you should also use High Level Enemies though.

      > "I think it's appropriate that a level 5 or 6 character, essentially a neophyte, but with a few key skills, should be able to graduate from spiders and skeevers, especially with multiple party members."
      Agreed, the releveler should make this possible regardless of your EZ mod, by level 6 you will outlevel most bandits, even in level 30 bandit dungeons. I'm playing a "non-combat" character right now (i.e. no armor, no offensive spells, just sneaking and poisons) and by level 15 I was able to clear bandit dungeons single handed. If you invest in defense/offense it will be much easier.

      > "If the minimum EZ is low, say, 14. and you are that level or lower; then in vanilla you will not see Plunderers and Marauders, even as bosses, until you are of the appropriate level; 25. With this mod you will meet them and they will be much much weaker."
      No, the releveler doesn't change where enemies appear. This is because the engine doesnt check NPC level when spawning them. Rather it checks their "level" in the leveled list, which is independent of their actual level.

      > "With this mod you will meet them and they will be much much weaker. Leading to the expectation that you can take on bandits. But Suprise! Some bandits are level 31 and 44; way above the Releveler's grasp; they will still be level 31 and 44."
      No, even NPCs outside of the expected range get their level changed by the releveler

      > "But if you simply squash him down to 15; then when you actually are at level 30 bandits will seem like cardboard criminals, and you will wonder why the guard haven't killed them all"
      Yes, in a static world, at high levels, low tier enemies get really easy. This is true in vanilla too - you'll eventually hugely outlevel bandits. With the releveler, you maintain the challenge by moving onto different enemy types (vampires and dwarven machines are really difficult with the releveler).

      > "How do you tweak these settings to get the maximum playtime out of a given zone difficulty?"
      Its not about getting max playtime out of a given zone, but rather out of the whole world. Sure, you'll eventually outlevel bandits, but then you can move onto forsworn, then mages, then draugr, then falmer, then vampires, etc. By the time you are taking on falmer, bandits will be a breeze, but you earned it by working through the low-level bandit phase. If you are using a mod like Know Your Enemy (also on thoughful skyrim) your strategy will have to evolve too. My non-combat character is now level 20 and just attempted their first mage dungeon. The mages were ok, but their skeleton minions were a nightmare: immune to poison, immune to illusion spells (without a high level perk), highly resistant to arrows and dagger (the only weapons I carry). In the end I used a staff looted from a fallen mage. I'll need to figure something out before I move on to draugr though.

      That said, you can draw out how long it takes to advance between types of enemies. If you're also using trainers galore (also on throughtful skyrim) you can adjust training cost to change how quickly you progress. I drop cost significantly (cost at lvl 100 = 300, surcharge=5) and this means after 3 or 4 dungeons of a given type I can pay for enough training to begin to think about enemies of the next tier. But if you leave it at defaults it will take a long longer.

      I hope this helps!
    2. aradjha
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      Oh wow it seems I really misunderstood the functionality of the Releveler and also how the game populates cells; I opened it up this morning and was suprised to see that even out-of-bounds enemies have shifted; this explains it. Thank you so much for taking the time to dissect my post; I'm using Know Your Enemy too but I haven't had a chance to notice how it affects monsters since my characters haven't gotten strong enough. This definitely helps a lot!
  6. deleted27655970
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    Hey, I can't wait to try this! But I looked through your mod description and could find an answer to this question. Is there are way to patch dragon priests or is there a reason that's not possible?
    1. tjhm4
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      No reason, I just forgot to include them. I'll add them at the next update. You can add them yourself to the enemy_rules.js file if you want. I can look up how to do it in more detail later today.
    2. deleted27655970
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      Great! Thank you so much! I'll try looking into myself while you work on that.
    3. tjhm4
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      OK, so add a comma to the current last enter in enemy rules.js and then add this to the end:

      'DragonPriestFaction "Dragon Priest Faction" [FACT:00106643]' : [[50, 60], [50, 60]]

      From a quick scan it looks like vanilla dragon priests range from level 50 to 60, which seems ok to me, but feel free to change the numbers.
  7. audo2205
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    Just stopped by to leave you some kind words.

    Your mods are great. I was taking a look at your guide and really like your style, but that's not why I'm here. I'm here to say that you are one hell of a modder, and your contribution to the community is hard to put into words. Your creations are meaningful and add true value to gameplay in a realistic, challenging way. Credit certainly is due to zEdit, but you utilize that tool in a profound way and we all benefit from it. KYE, NPC rescaler, and this have totally changed the way I play the game and I thank you for it. It blows my mind that you've made something that has such a monumental effect on how the game plays and yet has little incompatibility.

    Thanks for taking the time to put such a thorough description on the mod page. I know there's this idea that people just download a crap load of mods and hope they work without reading, but those of us who do read what the authors put together appreciate the work. I have a primitive understanding of encounter zone thanks to you now. Thanks for also engaging with your users. I've read quite a few comments and you are friendly and helpful for people who might be having issues or need clarification.
    1. tjhm4
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      Thanks so much for the really kind words, its really rewarding to know that others enjoy the things you make and appreciate the effort you put in. Thanks again, I'm glad you enjoy my mods!
  8. Sauron462
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    Does this work well with True Unleveled Skyrim? Thanks!
    1. tjhm4
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      Yes, you'll get the effects of both.
  9. NolseFTW
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    Hello, love your mod!

    However, I recently surpassed the 254 plugins limit, thanks to espfe plugin (esl).

    The thing is that zEdit doesn't like that. So I tried to uncheck esp plugin from mods that shouldn't need to be patched (retexture mod that have a bsa and dummy esp for example) to go below 255, and I could create the patch from your mod.

    However, when I re-enabled everything, my game crashed.

    .NET framework crash report :

    {
    [0] TESNPC(Name: `Nightlord Vampire`, FormId: 0200282A, File: `enemies_releveled.esp <- Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp <- Dawnguard.esm`)
    [1] TESNPC(Name: `Vampire Fledgling`, FormId: A6032FE7, File: `enemies_releveled.esp`)
    [8] TESNPC(Name: `Squelette`, FormId: 020023E3, File: `Dawnguard.esm`)
    [ 14] TESObjectARMO(FormId: 802A1C82, File: `Lucien.esp`)
    [ 35] BGSVolumetricLighting(FormId: 01002713, File: `Update.esm`)
    [ 44] TESNPC(Name: `Prisoner`, FormId: 00000007, File: `AI Overhaul.esp <- Skyrim.esm`)
    [ 44] PlayerCharacter(FormId: 00000014, BaseForm: TESNPC(Name: `Prisoner`, FormId: 00000007, File: `AI Overhaul.esp <- Skyrim.esm`))

    Don't know if it's something that is caused by your latest update, or because I have run it without everything in the first place...


    Do you know an easy fix for that ?


    And do you know if I can safely disable this mid-game in the meantime ?

    Thanks!
    1. NolseFTW
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      Ok, so I've rerun the patcher this time with the old patch that caused CTD, BUT the mods that were previously disable are now enabled.
      Of course I needed to disable other mods that were activated in the first run to be under 255 mods.
      After that, I think it's good !

      So if I understand correctly, basically the patcher have merged my old and incomplete patch with the new data from the new one, with the previously deactivated mods.

      So It should works without issue, at least the game doesn't CTD, and the plugin looks to be correct in zEdit, and in game

      That can be an "easier" methord that https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/27143 , and shouldn't have any issue.

      Can you confirm me that doing this result in the same plugin than doing it in one shot ?

      Thanks!!
    2. NolseFTW
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      Hmmm, I tried again with other mods swapped, and now it's loading indefinitely (no CTD, but the loading thing in the bottom right corner)

      Maybe it's not a good idea and I was lucky the first time ... So that would mean that the patcher doesn't work well this way, and could cause unexpected issues...

      the plugin looks really different in zEdit this time, so I really think it's not working good with this technique, rip (a lot of [1F09C21B] < Error: Could not be resolved >)

    3. NolseFTW
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      Okey, so lastly I tried to rerun it from scratch, and this time with disabling some esl patch (from QUASIPC mod) because it's pretty sure they're changing things that this mod doesn't care. (still to be under 255 mods)

      And this time I didn't try to rerun it with a swapped load order to try to merge everything. I just launched the game, and it works ! I guess this technique works? but only with small esl file. If you disable big mod with bsa etc, even if they don't alter things used by this mod, the game will just CTD.

      But again, I'm not sure everything is correct now, and I hope it won't cause unexpected issue in my game.... Thanks anyway!
      (The plugin looks "correct" for me in zEdit, pretty much the same as it was when I was under 255 mods, so running it normally with everything activated)
    4. tjhm4
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      Hmm, this sounds very weird. Can you look at some of the offending records and see if the patcher is doing anything odd? All the patcher does is change level values inside NPC records, so I'm quite skeptical its responsible for your crashes. Your crash logs point at a whole bunch of mods too, so I'm not sure they're very informative.

      Running the patcher over a subset of mods is totally fine, so that shouldn't be the issue. If you run the patcher again, with the patch already in your load order, I think it just totally replaces the patch esp.

      So, yeah, this sounds weird, but I'm not sure the releveler is responsible, at least its hard to say without more information.

      Edit: I posted the above without seeing your most recent comment. Glad you got it working, but I think the issue is something to do with the mods you are enabling/disabling rather than with the releveler - it's just so simple a mod I doubt it can cause CTDs. Still, with more information we might be able to figure it out.
    5. Sauron462
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      You could try the script from this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/35012?tab=files
  10. obpluto
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    I couldn't defeat level 71 Hagraven in level 15 dungeon when I entered the place as level 10 mage. So I checked the esp files and saw this.

    Vanilla: 20 -> SRCEO: 50 -> Enemies Relever: 71
    1. tjhm4
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      Yes, that is the expected behavior. Can you clarify why this is not what you expected? FWIW your troubles are probably coming from SRCEO which makes hagravens much harder than in vanilla regardless of dungeon level. The releveler does that too, but to a lesser extent.
    2. obpluto
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      Encountering level 71 non-boss enemy in level 15 dungeon was unexpected. I was fully prepared with foods and potions. Also, I brought 2 followers + 1 quest NPC. Yet, entire party got wiped out more than 10 times because Hagraven fired AoE explosion spells everywhere that made dodge impossible.
    3. tjhm4
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      Yes, that’s SRCEO, I agree it makes hagravens very hard. If you tweak the releveler settings you can make them easier, more in line with vanilla. They’ll still have fancy spells, but you can make their level whatever you want.
    4. ColossusX13
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      I use the releveler defaults [8, 30] but yet Hagravens were also raised to lvl 71 for me as well. Isn't the releveler supposed to make all hagravens fall within that level range?
    5. tjhm4
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      No, I think I need to make the description clearer.

      Hagravens: [4, 20] -> [8, 30] means that NPCs in the hagraven faction have their level changed such that a level 4 hagraven (actually just a hag) ends up level 8, and a level 20 hagraven ends up level 30. Hag(ravens) in between (e.g. level 10) will end up inbetween too (~ level 18), similarly, hagravens outside of the start range will (i.e. < 4 or > 20) will end up outside the end range too. The absolute numbers in the start and end ranges don't particularly matter, rather its just the relationship between them that matters. For instance, exactly the same outcome would happen with Hagravens: [40, 200] -> [80, 300].

      Now, to make things easier for users I set up the rules such that the start-range covers all *vanilla* NPCs, and so as long as no other mods change the level range of a faction then the end range *will* include all NPCs after the patcher runs. But, if another mod adds NPCs above the start range, they'll end up above the end range too. In this case, SRCEO increases the level of hagravens to 50, way beyond the expected start range of [4, 20], and so after the patcher runs they end up beyond the end range accordingly. The patcher does warn you about this though, when it finished it prints out lists of all NPCs would were above or below the start range so you can double check them, it also tells you if any NPCs ended up with negative levels or levels > 100.

      To fix it, you can either manually change the level of hagravens after the patcher runs (its a single record I think) or change the rule in the patcher to include SRCEO's changes, for instance Hagravens: [4, 50] -> [8, 30].

      Does this make sense?