v2.0.0 is released. This makes some changes to the list, either adding new mods or removing others to avoid feature creep. There is a downloadable file to remove the bow-draw-stamina-drain from blade & blunt which helps it not overwhelm the player given Master of One's similar stamina drain.
Thanks for your comments, downloads and endorsements, I hope you enjoy the list.
I love this modlist, you've managed to create such a deceptively meaningful way to change the feel of the game without changing it at its core, super fun so far! I have one problem so far, though: if I try to make a Nord, they always have a strange phantom level up at the beginning, where I can only pick Stam/Mag/Health to upgrade, and I'm able to level up stats the regular way, instead of it being impossible. Actually, it almost feels like it specifically levels things up the first time you do something related to them in that circumstance, like, I hit someone once with a one-handed weapon, and I level up to one-handed 21, or I get hit once with light armor and same thing, instant light armor up by 1. I havent extensively tested this, but it doesnt appear to do that for more than one level at a time per skill. Either way, makes me not play a Nord and I would really like to! I just used LOOT to change the priorities and it didn't help, either. Any advice or ideas would be appreciated!
Your Nord issue is super bizarre. Are you only using the mods on this list or some others too? I've never heard of this before (or encountered myself) so I'm guessing the issue comes from elsewhere.
Nothing that would seem to mess with it, I dont think. A Quality World Map, Alternate Start, Smoothcam and a Preset for it, Better Cities and Better City Entrances by JK. I believe thats the only additions ive made so far, and the issue started before I installed Smoothcam or the world map. Its not the biggest deal, but it sure is bizarre! Might try without alt start and see if that was it, potentially? It doesnt happen for literally all the other races though, Ive double checked them all.
Super weird. Did you set up the uncapper correctly, specifically "In the [SkillExpGainMults] section, set all skills to 0."? What version of the uncapper are you using?
I think the 'no saving in combat' mod is redundant because I'd expect most mod users nowadays to know that combat saves can ruin game stability over time. But that still leaves the question of saving in general and how exploitable it is. I'm going to rant a little, but I do have one question for you, tjhm4. How often do you save while dungeoneering? Inside constantly? Only outside? Do you limit yourself to an amount of saves for dungeons based on size?
You could abide by your own honor system. "I will only save before entering a dungeon and after exiting it." But then, cue random bullshit or finding a particularly powerful item. "Well... can't lose that. I think I deserve that circlet." Now I have a save inside the dungeon against my better judgment, because the thought of losing this one streak of good luck is too hard to bear. Is this a me problem? Oh for sure. I don't deny that. Skyrim has a habit of making me a compulsive saver especially because crashes are just unavoidable sometimes. I make the game difficult (that's why we're here), and I wish tedium and difficulty were not nearly one in the same at least where consequences are concerned. See, I used to always think about how combat injury systems and other long-term consequences were useless when your difficulty hits a certain threshold. Because at that threshold, failure of any kind simply results in a death+reload, and another reload. Repeat until you somehow managed the encounter without minor failures (i.e. you perfected it), and now you don't ever interact with these smaller systems you added to the game because they only happen right before you have to reload the game and banish them from existence. The reload simply nullifies everything, and honor systems be damned because when we get frustrated we will take any advantage we can get. 'Screw this, save. Save again. And another. Save after every damn enemy in this dungeon. Bad aim on that one scroll I was saving for a particularly tough enemy? Hey you know, I'd actually eat that loss if I got through this, but because I missed, I just died anyway." Truly my bane.
I've grown to like Fallout 4's survival mode save system because it doesn't give you a choice. Beds are few and far between but always at your bases at least. Finding a bed in the wild becomes a powerful surprise, giving you a new bounding point for the rest of your current adventure. No on-demand saving really makes every outing require a bit of preparation. If I die, I usually just throw in the towel for the day or decide to do go another direction, my 'deaths' being a dream-like premonition about my possible futures. I've tried the hardcore save overhaul in skyrim, but its world lacks beds especially because you don't exactly have access to evenly spaced out settlements to make beds at. So some people use camping mods to set up bases near where they want to do stuff, but then you circle back around to saying well I wouldn't have to deal with the weight of carrying around a campsite, not to mention any bugs or compatibility problems of having a mod interfere with saving if I just stuck with my honor system to begin with...
Anyway, that's my struggle with save scumming. Maybe I just have to admit that saving after every group of enemies is the proper way to handle it, giving me a way to at least incrementally and permanently set in stone the resource loss I incur, which in a way kind of makes short and long term consequences matter again. This is why I ask how you handle it.
I used to use a "save while sleep + camping" setup. I'd create a base camp outside a dungeon and save before going in. If I found something super neat, I'd leave the dungeon to save and go back in. After a while I realized this was just tedium though: for hard dungeons, to avoid losing loads of progress on death, I was coming out every 3 fights or so, but this was creating the tedium of repeatedly going in and out. This is why I like the "no save in combat, save whenever out of combat" system. It means I can't save scum my way through a fight, but if I die I can try again without losing progress.
It's a good compromise. I consider a series of loosely connected rooms full of enemies to be one group, and once I dispatch them, I'll consider saving before the next group. Same thing though. Basically every 'combat encounter' is pretty close to a save.
Hi tjhm4, Thanks for the amazing list. Can you share important MCM settings you use for all the mods here? I'm especially concerned about Economy Overhaul and Speechcraft Improvements, as the starting sale prices are ridiculously low. Settings in Tribute, Static Skill Leveling Rewritten that you recommend? Any other MCM settings?
Sure. The MCM settings for economy overhaul and static skill leveling are mentioned at the end of the Champion's Resolve mod page. Basically, I make economy overhaul a little easier (can't remember precise values off the top of my head). For static skill leveling I set it up so I can level a skill three times regardless of how advanced they are, so you get three points per level up and any skill advance costs 1 point. For tribute I use the defaults, but I don't have strong confidence in them as I need more data, so feel free to adjust them.
Thank you. So for static skill leveling, is this how you do it? You only set 3 skill points per level? All costs are 1. So every time we level up, we only get 3 skill points. This dramatically slows down skill progress, right?
You need to set "skill points level multiplier" to 0, and probably "max obtainable skill points" to something 3 or higher. This slows skill progress in the early game, but stops it slowing down so much in the late game. It also stops a high level character raising a neglected skill insanely fast in the late game. If its too slow for you, set it to 4 skill ups per level.
Much appreciated, tjh. So after 10 levels, we get 30 skill points. We have to plan and choose which skills to improve and not waste even a single point. I love this approach. For the first 10 levels, I wonder which skills are a priority to improve? - one offensive combat skill - one defensive combat skill - one social skill like speech / one crafting skill Would love to know how you go about it.
It's really going to depend on your build, but you'll want to focus at first on just 2 or maybe three key skills. In general, skill level itself has relatively little effect on the player, but it is required for perks, so prioritize skills to get key perks. If you're a warrior you're going to want to get the conditioning perks pretty fast, especially for melee weapons and heavy armor. It'll take ages to get all 5 ranks, but getting the first two is important and the second rank requires skill 20 which might take some work. For mages the spell casting perks are key, and again they have pretty modest skill requirements, but you'll need to focus on the schools that matter most to your character, even the first two ranks alone can get you a long way. After that its all up to your build, for a fire mage pyromancy will be important, for a paladin restoration perks like regeneration and physician might be key, for an assassin poison related perks may be important.
Happy New Year! This modlist looks interesting and I am thinking about using it as a core to build my personal modlist around. I think it would be fun to try something different than full Simonrim, especially because i am not fond of how with the full Simonrim suite and a few of the addons for it, I feel decently overpowered by level 20.
I did see further down in the comments that you shared your full mod load order with someone and I was wondering if you would mind sending that to me as well? Id like to see some of the other mods you pair with this setup to get some ideas for my own list.
Sure, I'll DM it to you. I will say that even with my list I do eventually feel pretty OP. I periodically edit the bonus NPC health per level (which the rescaler sets to 0) - by the mid/late game I set it to 2 or 3.
I've never used requiem so can't comment in detail. In terms of gameplay, Champion's resolve is probably a bit lighter/less hardcore. The big difference is in modularity and compatibility though, this list is really easy to change up and in general is pretty compatible.
Hello! I was looking for a modlist that makes the game harder after not being satisfied with Requiem, and your modlist seems perfect. But I'm not very experienced with mods, so I have some questions.
1. I have to download each mod one by one and the patch provided on this page, right?
2. Is this modlist compatible with the AE CC content? Should I use any patches?
3. If the answer to the last question is yes, do you think "Tamrielic Distribution" could work with this modlist?
4. Would it be possible to use a spell mod like Mysticism?
Sorry if I asked a stupid question, and I'll understand if you don't know the answers to the compatibility questions. Thanks for all the work!
Hey, happy to help. 1. Yes, though you only need the patch if you are using both Master of One and Blade and Blunt. 2. It should be mostly compatible, though I'm not sure off the top of my head. Worst thing to happen will be some CC creatures not getting resistances etc. You can always look for patches for mods you think might run into issues, but I'd just go ahead anyway. 3. That should work fine. If the new armors or weapons are missing keywords they might interact oddly with perks or resistances, but that is probably not going to be a problem. 4. Yes, mysticism will work fine, I use it myself.
Thank you so much for the reply! I only have one more question, which is probably the most important, but I ended up forgetting it. Does your modlist work with 1.6.1170? It probably does, but just to be sure.
Yes, I think it is good for all versions. Just double check you are getting the right version of each mod as you download them. Most mods don't care about version at all, but some (like address library) do.
Thanks for the kind words! I don't have any plans for a combat or spell mod, to be honest I think mysticism and blade and blunt are great and I'm not sure what I would do differently so I'd just recommend those to you.
Hello tjhm4, First, thank you for creating and sharing your modlist! I’m interested in using it alongside MCO (Modern Combat Overhaul), but I wanted to ask if your modlist has been tested for compatibility with MCO or if there are any specific adjustments you'd recommend for optimal performance.I appreciate your time and guidance, and I look forward to exploring your work!Best regards,
I don't use MCO myself, so I can't be totally sure, but I think it's basically fine. Some of Master of One's perks rely on directional power attacks, but theres a patch to remove that in MoO's optional downloads. Other than that I can't think of any problems.
By the way, have you ever considered giving these perks to NPCs as other mods do (à la NPCs Learn Perks)? Do you also have a suggestion for alchemy? Do you run Apothecary with this modlist?
I deliberately don't give perks to NPCs, for a few reasons, but the big one is that NPCs don't actually need perks. All their stats scale much more strongly with skill level that do the player's stats (e.g. the player gets 0.5% extra damage per level of one-handed, but NPCs get 2% per level). Giving NPCs perks too can break them very easily. To make enemies tougher the best option is just to increase their level, which can be done with the releveler.
Apothecary is great, and I use it with this list no problem. It's not on the list because it doesn't specifically pertain to the goals of the list, but I'd certainly recommend it.
So you don’t suggest any enemy overhaul like SRCEO or Lawless? Any insights on that? I would like to make encounters very tough but still balanced around a party of 3-4
I have used SRCEO and quite like it. It makes some boss NPCs far too high leveled, but there's a rebalancing patch for that. Overall I think SRCEO is good for variety, it doesn't make the game much harder, and so I use the releveler on top.
I've never used lawless, so can't comment. I have used OBIS and rogues'n'raiders and found both were excessive for my taste. That said, I never use followers so balance difficulty around a single player.
Hello tjhm4, I love your suite of mods that overhauls perks, standing stones, races, and many other systems. I always thought there was Enairim, Simonrim, and Requiem. Now we gotta add TJHrim to the mix!
I would appreciate it if you could clarify some doubts I had
So do we have an installation guide that talks about the load order of the mods, how to generate the zedit patch for NPC Stat Rescaler, and other best practices? I would appreciate some sort of article or atleast screenshots if possible that shows how to setup all of these mods in MO2.
I love exploring gameplay systems, and I'm trying Requiem now and loving the deleveled world experience where we need a lot of preparation and patience at low levels. We just can't rush to Bleak Falls Barrow at Level 1. Is it the same here?
With Requiem, if we install any other mod that adds New creatures/enemies/NPC’s/followers then we will need a Requiem patch to ensure they level properly and have the appropriate perks. With 'Champion's Resolve', what will happen if we install a mod like Interesting NPCs or Enai's Sacrosanct, for example? Will we need to patch them?
I love the classic Elder Scrolls "Use Skills to Improve them" system (I have been using it since Morrowind!) and dont enjoy mods that give out generic XP like Experience. I just feel it is not the Elder Scrolls way! Is it possible to use the classic levelling and also use all of your other mods like Master of One, Geometric Stat Growth etc?
Thanks for all of your work. I would love to try TJHrim soon!
Thanks for the kind words! In answer to your comments:
For load order, as per the mod page: Put Ambiance.esp at the end of your load order, put USSEP at the top. Nothing else matters. For the zEdit patchers the pages for those mods have pretty specific instructions.
Yes, like Requiem you can't go everywhere at level 1. The weakest draugr are level 16, so draugr barrows are off limits until about level 10. Overall its probably not quite as hardcore as requiem though.
Whether a dedicated patch is necessary will depend on the mod, but in most cases you just need to rebuild the patchers (for the rescaler, releveler etc) and you'll be good to go.
Yes, just remove experience, tribute, the uncapper and static skill leveling.
I have this question for a while.... Blade And Blunt changes the combat stat regeneration modifiers to Health-0.5% Magicka-1.5% Stamina-2.5%. However NPC Stat Rescaler also changes this value to Health-0% Magicka-1% and Stamina-5% which breaks the balance of Blade and blunt. Is this intended? Right now I use NPC stat rescaler to change base regen parameters to 0.5% of the vanilla base values and set the combat modifiers to 100% of base regen parameters. Which sets regen values to Health-0.5%, Magicka-1.5%, Stamina-2.5% for both in combat or out of combat situation.
There is another thing about the scaler; the health offset that is a flat amount of 50 health point added to every creature. This makes creatures like rabbit, wolf too powerful early game. Even a chicken gets 50+ health. This kinda breaks the immersion early game.
For chickens maybe this is immersion breaking (I don't attack them so have never noticed), but I like it for wolves. It makes your first few levels a real challenge because even wild animals can take you down. For me, this enhances immersion because level 1 characters should be puny. If you don't like this you can adjust this parameter, but even then the rescaler will cause level 1 NPCs (of playable races) to start at 100 health instead of vanilla's 50.
What I did was to set the health offset to 0 and set the health per level scaling to 1. This way high level enemies still get the health benefits since enemy releveler changes levels accordingly. This keeps low level mobs easy to kill but with high level enemies the bonus health is quite close to the 50 health offset. Maybe even higher for stronger enemies like dragon priest. As for weak enemies like wolves, I am thinking of changing the rules in enemy releveler.
Just a suggestion, but I think Exercise - Incremental Growth is a perfect add on for this mod list. For example, Master of One's enchanting skill Soul vessel requires health/magicka/stamina points to lvl up. Now normally geometric stat growth increases stats well. But the player can also benefit from those extra stats earned by Exercise at early game.
Thanks! The only reason it’s not on the list is because I worry it is too hard to tune if used on top of geometric stat growth. If you are enjoying it then it’s all fine though. I might try it on my next playthrough.
272 comments
Thanks for your comments, downloads and endorsements, I hope you enjoy the list.
Actually, it almost feels like it specifically levels things up the first time you do something related to them in that circumstance, like, I hit someone once with a one-handed weapon, and I level up to one-handed 21, or I get hit once with light armor and same thing, instant light armor up by 1. I havent extensively tested this, but it doesnt appear to do that for more than one level at a time per skill. Either way, makes me not play a Nord and I would really like to! I just used LOOT to change the priorities and it didn't help, either. Any advice or ideas would be appreciated!
Your Nord issue is super bizarre. Are you only using the mods on this list or some others too? I've never heard of this before (or encountered myself) so I'm guessing the issue comes from elsewhere.
You could abide by your own honor system. "I will only save before entering a dungeon and after exiting it." But then, cue random bullshit or finding a particularly powerful item. "Well... can't lose that. I think I deserve that circlet." Now I have a save inside the dungeon against my better judgment, because the thought of losing this one streak of good luck is too hard to bear. Is this a me problem? Oh for sure. I don't deny that. Skyrim has a habit of making me a compulsive saver especially because crashes are just unavoidable sometimes. I make the game difficult (that's why we're here), and I wish tedium and difficulty were not nearly one in the same at least where consequences are concerned. See, I used to always think about how combat injury systems and other long-term consequences were useless when your difficulty hits a certain threshold. Because at that threshold, failure of any kind simply results in a death+reload, and another reload. Repeat until you somehow managed the encounter without minor failures (i.e. you perfected it), and now you don't ever interact with these smaller systems you added to the game because they only happen right before you have to reload the game and banish them from existence. The reload simply nullifies everything, and honor systems be damned because when we get frustrated we will take any advantage we can get. 'Screw this, save. Save again. And another. Save after every damn enemy in this dungeon. Bad aim on that one scroll I was saving for a particularly tough enemy? Hey you know, I'd actually eat that loss if I got through this, but because I missed, I just died anyway." Truly my bane.
I've grown to like Fallout 4's survival mode save system because it doesn't give you a choice. Beds are few and far between but always at your bases at least. Finding a bed in the wild becomes a powerful surprise, giving you a new bounding point for the rest of your current adventure. No on-demand saving really makes every outing require a bit of preparation. If I die, I usually just throw in the towel for the day or decide to do go another direction, my 'deaths' being a dream-like premonition about my possible futures. I've tried the hardcore save overhaul in skyrim, but its world lacks beds especially because you don't exactly have access to evenly spaced out settlements to make beds at. So some people use camping mods to set up bases near where they want to do stuff, but then you circle back around to saying well I wouldn't have to deal with the weight of carrying around a campsite, not to mention any bugs or compatibility problems of having a mod interfere with saving if I just stuck with my honor system to begin with...
Anyway, that's my struggle with save scumming. Maybe I just have to admit that saving after every group of enemies is the proper way to handle it, giving me a way to at least incrementally and permanently set in stone the resource loss I incur, which in a way kind of makes short and long term consequences matter again. This is why I ask how you handle it.
Thanks for the amazing list.
Can you share important MCM settings you use for all the mods here?
I'm especially concerned about Economy Overhaul and Speechcraft Improvements, as the starting sale prices are ridiculously low.
Settings in Tribute, Static Skill Leveling Rewritten that you recommend?
Any other MCM settings?
Thanks again.
So for static skill leveling, is this how you do it?
You only set 3 skill points per level?
All costs are 1.
So every time we level up, we only get 3 skill points. This dramatically slows down skill progress, right?
So, economy—this looks ok?
Otherwise it all looks good.
So after 10 levels, we get 30 skill points. We have to plan and choose which skills to improve and not waste even a single point.
I love this approach.
For the first 10 levels, I wonder which skills are a priority to improve?
- one offensive combat skill
- one defensive combat skill
- one social skill like speech / one crafting skill
Would love to know how you go about it.
This modlist looks interesting and I am thinking about using it as a core to build my personal modlist around. I think it would be fun to try something different than full Simonrim, especially because i am not fond of how with the full Simonrim suite and a few of the addons for it, I feel decently overpowered by level 20.
I did see further down in the comments that you shared your full mod load order with someone and I was wondering if you would mind sending that to me as well? Id like to see some of the other mods you pair with this setup to get some ideas for my own list.
1. I have to download each mod one by one and the patch provided on this page, right?
2. Is this modlist compatible with the AE CC content? Should I use any patches?
3. If the answer to the last question is yes, do you think "Tamrielic Distribution" could work with this modlist?
4. Would it be possible to use a spell mod like Mysticism?
Sorry if I asked a stupid question, and I'll understand if you don't know the answers to the compatibility questions. Thanks for all the work!
1. Yes, though you only need the patch if you are using both Master of One and Blade and Blunt.
2. It should be mostly compatible, though I'm not sure off the top of my head. Worst thing to happen will be some CC creatures not getting resistances etc. You can always look for patches for mods you think might run into issues, but I'd just go ahead anyway.
3. That should work fine. If the new armors or weapons are missing keywords they might interact oddly with perks or resistances, but that is probably not going to be a problem.
4. Yes, mysticism will work fine, I use it myself.
Do you have plans on making a combat and/or spell overhaul like the ones we have in Enairim and Simonrim?
First, thank you for creating and sharing your modlist! I’m interested in using it alongside MCO (Modern Combat Overhaul), but I wanted to ask if your modlist has been tested for compatibility with MCO or if there are any specific adjustments you'd recommend for optimal performance.I appreciate your time and guidance, and I look forward to exploring your work!Best regards,
By the way, have you ever considered giving these perks to NPCs as other mods do (à la NPCs Learn Perks)? Do you also have a suggestion for alchemy? Do you run Apothecary with this modlist?
Apothecary is great, and I use it with this list no problem. It's not on the list because it doesn't specifically pertain to the goals of the list, but I'd certainly recommend it.
I've never used lawless, so can't comment. I have used OBIS and rogues'n'raiders and found both were excessive for my taste. That said, I never use followers so balance difficulty around a single player.
I love your suite of mods that overhauls perks, standing stones, races, and many other systems.
I always thought there was Enairim, Simonrim, and Requiem. Now we gotta add TJHrim to the mix!
I would appreciate it if you could clarify some doubts I had
Thanks for all of your work. I would love to try TJHrim soon!
Blade And Blunt changes the combat stat regeneration modifiers to Health-0.5% Magicka-1.5% Stamina-2.5%. However NPC Stat Rescaler also changes this value to Health-0% Magicka-1% and Stamina-5% which breaks the balance of Blade and blunt. Is this intended?
Right now I use NPC stat rescaler to change base regen parameters to 0.5% of the vanilla base values and set the combat modifiers to 100% of base regen parameters. Which sets regen values to Health-0.5%, Magicka-1.5%, Stamina-2.5% for both in combat or out of combat situation.
Thanks anyways for this awesome modlist. <3 💗