All plugins are ESP-FE now, for real this time. (I'm a confused insomniac who forgot to actually upload the ESP-FE files last time.) Sorry!
Some plugins have been updated to include Survival Mode compatibility/support, and to be consistent with the latest version of Skyrim SE and USSEP, but they do not require Survival Mode or USSEP for those who don't use them.
Have an idea for a patch? Leave a comment with links to the relevant mods.
Please read the Troubleshooting, Compatibility, and FAQs sections before reporting a bug or asking a question that I've already answered. If you find an actual BUG, please post it in BUG REPORTS so it doesn't get lost in the comments. Thank you!
Troubleshooting
1. Did you read the mod description? 2. Did you read the Compatibility and FAQs sections? 3. Do you have the most recent versions of all required mods installed and enabled? 4. Do you have all requirements and other necessary patches for those required mods? 5. Did you use LOOT to optimize your load order? If not, did you follow the suggested load order from the mod description? 7. Did you attempt to narrow down the issue to this mod? Test on a new save? Etc.
Compatibility
Spoiler:
Show
Book Covers Skyrim - Immersive Horses Patchis incompatible with Legacy of the Dragonborn. Legacy of the Dragonborn (LOTD) incorporatesits own version of Book Covers Skyrim and has its own patches.
If you DO NOT have LOTD installed -> Use my patch.
Relationship Dialogue overhaul - Immersive Horses Patch only affects horses purchased from a vanilla stables, and only when those horses are being managed by Immersive Horses. If you are using non-vanilla horses, Creation Club horses, other horse-management or follower horse-management mods, or any other horse-related mods that aren't working as intended it's not because of this patch. You may have horses that aren't compatible with Immersive Horses without a patch, or some other incompatibility or load order issue.
I've received conflicting accounts of whether or not Relationship Dialogue Overhaul - Immersive Horses Patch is necessary or (in)compatible with Nether's Follower Framework. It seems that this patch may be unnecessary with NFF at the recommended settings, but it isn't breaking anything. This is a tiny patch that forwards a single quest record - containing stable horse AI packages from Immersive Horses - that conflicts with the same record in RDO. If NFF works with both Immersive Horses and RDO installed, then it works with this patch too.
However, I can't ignore a claim that my patch was causing another mod not to work correctly. I want to fix mod issues, not cause more! So I put up a cautionary warning until I had enough time and spiteful motivation to thoroughly test it myself. I tried every combination of RDO + Immersive Horses + NFF + RDO - Immersive Horses Patch. It all works together with a load order sorted by LOOT and the NFF settings for Mount Support set to Riding Support Only (per the instructions in NFF's mod description). I did not have any other horse-management or horse-related mods enabled at the time of testing.
FAQs
Spoiler:
Show
Will you make an ESL version of the patches? No. The patches are already ESP-FE (ESP flagged as ESL), which is usually preferable to ESL. An ESP-FE plugin does not contribute to the ESP plugin limit, but does follow the ESP load order rules. It's the best of both worlds.
The LOOT load order doesn't match your suggested load order. What should I do? Use the LOOT load order. My recommended load orders are only for people that don't use LOOT and want guidance.
A modding tool - such as Wrye Bash or Mod Organizer 2 - is giving an error message like "missing master" for your patch. Why? Will you fix it? Plugins can be disabled when merging or creating a bashed patch, depending on the tool and settings used. Verify that all masters are installed and enabled. If so, then you could possibly be getting an error because the load order doesn't match the expected order of masters in the plugin.
Use LOOT to sort your load order.
Open SSEEdit and load the relevant plugin. (Its masters will be selected and loaded as well.)
Right-click on the name of the plugin and select Sort Masters.
Save and Exit.
Why is the opening scene broken? The carriage is getting stuck, the horse is doing wonky stuff, and I can't get through Helgen! Why did you break my game? The opening scene glitch is an infamous problem that has plagued Skyrim for over a decade. It is not caused by my patches. My patches are fairly simple and I'm 99.99% certain that they are not the reason the opening scene or anything else in your game is broken. Open the spoiler tag for an explanation and workaround for the opening scene glitch.
Spoiler:
Show
The general consensus is that having a heavily modded game (and/or a weak computer) can cause issues with the already heavily scripted opening scene. When too many scripts are trying to run at once the opening scene breaks down.
You can avoid the opening scene glitch by using Alternate Start - Live Another Life. You can still choose to play the vanilla/default start through Alternate Start, so you won't miss anything!
Simply stay in the starting cell for a while to allow all of the script-heavy mods and MCM menus to initialize - which could take several minutes on slower computers depending on how many mods you have installed. When everything is finished loading and messages have stopped popping up the game should be stabilized. Then you can save and choose the default/vanilla carriage start - or an alternate start - from the statue menu.
Now there won't be a ton of mods trying to do many different things all at the same time as the scripted opening scene. It should work correctly now.
I'm using your SFCO - Paintings Removal Patch but I just saw a painting in the game. Why? Will you fix it? I'll need some specific information from you. Where did you see the painting(s)? Do you have any other SFCO patches or addons installed? Did you install any other mods that add their own paintings?
Paintings could possibly (re)appear if they are edited by other mods or patches. For example, a compatibility patch for SFCO and an "interior overhaul" mod may reposition a painting that's clashing with another mod-added item. That edit would "conflict" with mine and, depending on your load order, could result in the painting being enabled and (re)appearing in game.
Vortex told me to use Book Covers Skyrim - Immersive Horses Patch but I have Legacy of the Dragonborn installed. What should I do? Please, DO NOT use that patch with Legacy of the Dragonborn (LOTD). Instead, use the equivalent patch from Legacy of the Dragonborn Patches (Official).
With your RDO-Immersive Horses patch installed, my followers will not ride horses. I am using nether's Follower Framework with the recommended 'Riding Support Only' option. No matter what I do, followers simply refuse to ride. If I remove your patch, everything works as intended.
I will note that even without your patch, I do not have the problem that the patch is supposed to fix (horses purchased from a stable continuously attempt to go back to the stables when they are not mounted), so I can just go on without the patch and everything is good for me.
I do not know about what this patch fixes, but according to MO2's plugin list, immersive horses - RDO patch cannot find Relationship Dialogue Overhaul master.
Since you've tested them to be compatible without a patch, I'll take my chances as well :)
(This comment been has rewritten to include current information.) This patch may be unnecessary for people who use NFF, but it's not breaking anything.
The purpose of the RDO-Immersive Horses patch is to ensure that Immersive Horses works with Relationship Dialogue Overhaul installed regardless of load order. This is a tiny patch that forwards a single quest record - containing stable horse AI packages from Immersive Horses - that conflicts with the same record in RDO. If NFF works with both Immersive Horses and RDO installed, then it works with this patch too.
However, I can't ignore a claim that my patch was causing another mod not to work correctly. I want to fix mod issues, not cause more! So I put up a cautionary warning until I had enough time and spiteful motivation to thoroughly test it myself. I tested every combination of RDO + Immersive Horses + Nether's Follower Framework + Relationship Dialogue Overhaul - Immersive Horses Patch. It all works together with a load order sorted by LOOT and the NFF settings for Mount Support set to Riding Support Only (per the instructions in NFF's mod description). I did not have any other horse-management or horse-related mods enabled at the time of testing. This patch only affects horses from vanilla stables that are being managed by Immersive Horses. If you are using non-vanilla horses, Creation Club horses, or other horse-management or horse-related mods that aren't working as intended it's not because of this patch. Other mods will need their own patches.
@GrimRulezz MO2 will only be able to find "Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp" if you have Relationship Dialogue Overhaulinstalled (correctly) and enabled.
Edit:Plugins can be disabled when merging or creating a bashed patch, depending on the tool and settings used. Verify that all masters are installed and enabled. If so, then you could possibly be getting an error because the load order doesn't match the expected order of masters in the plugin. This has never caused issues or errors for me, but I read a post about it that suggested to Sort Masters.
Use LOOT to sort your load order.
Open SSEEdit and load the relevant plugin. (Its masters will be selected and loaded as well.)
Right-click on the name of the plugin and select Sort Masters.
Hello! When I choose NFF with RDO and without this patch, Vortex keeps prompting me that I need this patch. But when I installed this patch too, the start scene at Helgen has General Tullius' and Hadvar's horses flying around while the cart-drawing horses are moving very slowly.
So this confirms that those using NFF need not install the IH-RDO patch? Is there any way to tell LOOT about that?
I am 99.99% certain that my tiny patch is not the cause of the infamous Opening Scene Glitch that has plagued Skyrim for over a decade.
The vanilla opening scene is heavily scripted, so having a heavily modded setup initializing at the same time can break it. You can try disabling all of your mods until after Helgen, but a much better and easier solution is to use Alternate Start - Live Another Life. With ASLAL you can wait in the opening cell while all of your scripted mods and their MCM menus initialize. After everything is done initializing, you can choose the vanilla/default start - or an alternate start - which should run without any issues at that point.
To avoid confusion for anyone, I want to specify that the Legacy of the Dragonborn patches are only for those who have LOTD installed. LOTD incorporates its own version of Book Covers Skyrim and has its own patches.
i compared bottles of skyrim ussep patch esp and the real esp in SSEEDIT but there are almost no differences and USSEP doesn't even touch the bottles. I don't understand what this patch is for exactly?
It's for nitpickers mostly, but it's a replacement plugin with an esl flag (ESP-FE) so that it doesn't take up extra space in your load order.
The patch consists of very small edits to two items that carried forward item properties from USSEP and Skyrim 1.5.9.7 update (which included some changes for CC Survival Mode). The edits may be useful in conjunction with any food/drink/potion, survival or "needs" mods - which depend on certain item properties to recognize and categorize food/beverages/potions and apply the proper type of effects.
Loot absolutely refuses to let me load RDO after immersive horses like your load order shows. I still keep getting the bug in game. I have userdata trying to set RDO to load after horses but it won't allow it and keeps giving me error messages.
Yeah, one of the masterlist updates to LOOT included a rule that forces Immersive Horses to load after RDO, and masterlist rules like that can't be overridden by user rules. That being said, looking at the patch itself, the load order between RDO and Immersive Horses shouldn't matter so long as the patch loads after both of them. There are no actual file conflicts between the two mods, and the patch plugin reconciles the single quest record conflict between the two. If it's not working, there's either a conflict with some other, third mod, or there's something fundamentally broken with the patch.
Use Vortex, load order is built in. I have over 100 mods, and it gets it right every time. When I look through the posts I always see people using MO, and their mods are always a mess and they always have problems and need help.
This has nothing to do with mod managers, though. The problem is specifically with LOOT's master list. Vortex, at its heart, simply serves as a frontend to LOOT when it comes to load order management. And the same restrictions apply: LOOT user-defined rules cannot contradict rules defined in the master list. In short, because the LOOT master list insists that Immersive Horses load after RDO, there is no way to have LOOT automatically follow the load order guidelines mentioned here, which require RDO to load after Immersive Horses. And since Vortex requires all load order management to be done via LOOT user rules, there is no actual way to follow the given instructions for this patch if you're using Vortex. At all. At least with Mod Organizer, or Wrye Bash, or (heaven forbid) NMM you can manually adjust the load order after LOOT has done its thing. That's not possible with Vortex.
We're getting off-topic, but it's for that reason that I don't recommend Vortex to anyone. For small to moderate sized load orders, it'll work, but the larger and more complicated your installation gets, the more difficult it becomes to properly manage your load order using LOOT rules exclusively. Because of the inability to contravene the master list in cases such as this (which I think is a terrible design choice on the part of LOOT, frankly), there are even edge cases like this one where it's not possible at all. Because of its design philosophy, Vortex ends up inheriting and magnifying the problems of LOOT. Don't get me wrong: LOOT is an absolutely essential tool, but there are times you shouldn't trust it blindly. It works well enough for load outs consisting of "over 100 mods," but that's not a particularly impressive number, in the scheme of things. My last game had well north of 200 mods, and my current Fallout 4 game is around 400 (thanks to ESLs/ESPFEs). For that kind of build, Vortex is more aggravation than its worth, IMO.
The specific order of Immersive Horses and RDO is irrelevant to the patch. The patch only needs to be placed somewhere after the 2 mods that it is patching. If LOOT has RDO load before Immersive horses, then that's the order you should go with. Just make sure the patch is loaded after them.
As seancdaug pointed out, the only conflict between the mods is a single record, so whichever .esp loads last will win that conflict. I do understand your confusion though. When it comes to massive or complex mods with multiple (and often conflicting) patches, the load order is sometimes very specific. This just happens to be a simple patch for two mods that share a single conflicting quest record.
The only reason for putting a specific load order in the mod description is because some of the people that still insist on installing and/or ordering mods manually also still haven't figured out that patch(es) should go AFTER the main mod(s). If I don't suggest a load order, then I will inevitably get asked for it by people who don't or can't use mod management tools. If LOOT puts things in a certain order, then it's (almost always) the right order. That's why I asked people to use it.
As to the reason you're still getting the bug, it's not because RDO is loading before Immersive Horses. As long as the patch is installed and loaded after both mods, then the bug should be fixed. It's probably a conflict with another mod, which would require its own patch.
Do you have Beyond Skyrim: Bruma? If so, you will need Immersive Horses - Bruma Patch as well. Did you install ANY other mods that affect HORSES, STABLES, OR DIALOGUE? If you show me your load order I can probably figure it out.
Edit: Are you using the Wild Horses from Creation Club? It may need a patch for Immersive Horses. I'll look into it.
Give Feedback
48 comments
- All plugins are ESP-FE now, for real this time. (I'm a confused insomniac who forgot to actually upload the ESP-FE files last time.) Sorry!
- Some plugins have been updated to include Survival Mode compatibility/support, and to be consistent with the latest version of Skyrim SE and USSEP, but they do not require Survival Mode or USSEP for those who don't use them.
Have an idea for a patch? Leave a comment with links to the relevant mods.Troubleshooting
1. Did you read the mod description?
2. Did you read the Compatibility and FAQs sections?
3. Do you have the most recent versions of all required mods installed and enabled?
4. Do you have all requirements and other necessary patches for those required mods?
5. Did you use LOOT to optimize your load order? If not, did you follow the suggested load order from the mod description?
7. Did you attempt to narrow down the issue to this mod? Test on a new save? Etc.
Compatibility
Legacy of the Dragonborn (LOTD) incorporates its own version of Book Covers Skyrim and has its own patches.
Relationship Dialogue overhaul - Immersive Horses Patch only affects horses purchased from a vanilla stables, and only when those horses are being managed by Immersive Horses. If you are using non-vanilla horses, Creation Club horses, other horse-management or follower horse-management mods, or any other horse-related mods that aren't working as intended it's not because of this patch. You may have horses that aren't compatible with Immersive Horses without a patch, or some other incompatibility or load order issue.
I've received conflicting accounts of whether or not Relationship Dialogue Overhaul - Immersive Horses Patch is necessary or (in)compatible with Nether's Follower Framework. It seems that this patch may be unnecessary with NFF at the recommended settings, but it isn't breaking anything. This is a tiny patch that forwards a single quest record - containing stable horse AI packages from Immersive Horses - that conflicts with the same record in RDO. If NFF works with both Immersive Horses and RDO installed, then it works with this patch too.
However, I can't ignore a claim that my patch was causing another mod not to work correctly. I want to fix mod issues, not cause more! So I put up a cautionary warning until I had enough time and spiteful motivation to thoroughly test it myself. I tried every combination of RDO + Immersive Horses + NFF + RDO - Immersive Horses Patch. It all works together with a load order sorted by LOOT and the NFF settings for Mount Support set to Riding Support Only (per the instructions in NFF's mod description). I did not have any other horse-management or horse-related mods enabled at the time of testing.
FAQs
No. The patches are already ESP-FE (ESP flagged as ESL), which is usually preferable to ESL. An ESP-FE plugin does not contribute to the ESP plugin limit, but does follow the ESP load order rules. It's the best of both worlds.
The LOOT load order doesn't match your suggested load order. What should I do?
Use the LOOT load order. My recommended load orders are only for people that don't use LOOT and want guidance.
A modding tool - such as Wrye Bash or Mod Organizer 2 - is giving an error message like "missing master" for your patch. Why? Will you fix it?
Plugins can be disabled when merging or creating a bashed patch, depending on the tool and settings used. Verify that all masters are installed and enabled. If so, then you could possibly be getting an error because the load order doesn't match the expected order of masters in the plugin.
Why is the opening scene broken? The carriage is getting stuck, the horse is doing wonky stuff, and I can't get through Helgen! Why did you break my game?
The opening scene glitch is an infamous problem that has plagued Skyrim for over a decade. It is not caused by my patches. My patches are fairly simple and I'm 99.99% certain that they are not the reason the opening scene or anything else in your game is broken. Open the spoiler tag for an explanation and workaround for the opening scene glitch.
The general consensus is that having a heavily modded game (and/or a weak computer) can cause issues with the already heavily scripted opening scene. When too many scripts are trying to run at once the opening scene breaks down.
You can avoid the opening scene glitch by using Alternate Start - Live Another Life. You can still choose to play the vanilla/default start through Alternate Start, so you won't miss anything!
Simply stay in the starting cell for a while to allow all of the script-heavy mods and MCM menus to initialize - which could take several minutes on slower computers depending on how many mods you have installed. When everything is finished loading and messages have stopped popping up the game should be stabilized. Then you can save and choose the default/vanilla carriage start - or an alternate start - from the statue menu.
Now there won't be a ton of mods trying to do many different things all at the same time as the scripted opening scene. It should work correctly now.
I'm using your SFCO - Paintings Removal Patch but I just saw a painting in the game. Why? Will you fix it?
I'll need some specific information from you. Where did you see the painting(s)? Do you have any other SFCO patches or addons installed? Did you install any other mods that add their own paintings?
Paintings could possibly (re)appear if they are edited by other mods or patches. For example, a compatibility patch for SFCO and an "interior overhaul" mod may reposition a painting that's clashing with another mod-added item. That edit would "conflict" with mine and, depending on your load order, could result in the painting being enabled and (re)appearing in game.
Vortex told me to use Book Covers Skyrim - Immersive Horses Patch but I have Legacy of the Dragonborn installed. What should I do?
Please, DO NOT use that patch with Legacy of the Dragonborn (LOTD). Instead, use the equivalent patch from Legacy of the Dragonborn Patches (Official).
I will note that even without your patch, I do not have the problem that the patch is supposed to fix (horses purchased from a stable continuously attempt to go back to the stables when they are not mounted), so I can just go on without the patch and everything is good for me.
Since you've tested them to be compatible without a patch, I'll take my chances as well :)
This patch may be unnecessary for people who use NFF, but it's not breaking anything.
The purpose of the RDO-Immersive Horses patch is to ensure that Immersive Horses works with Relationship Dialogue Overhaul installed regardless of load order. This is a tiny patch that forwards a single quest record - containing stable horse AI packages from Immersive Horses - that conflicts with the same record in RDO. If NFF works with both Immersive Horses and RDO installed, then it works with this patch too.
However, I can't ignore a claim that my patch was causing another mod not to work correctly. I want to fix mod issues, not cause more! So I put up a cautionary warning until I had enough time and spiteful motivation to thoroughly test it myself. I tested every combination of RDO + Immersive Horses + Nether's Follower Framework + Relationship Dialogue Overhaul - Immersive Horses Patch. It all works together with a load order sorted by LOOT and the NFF settings for Mount Support set to Riding Support Only (per the instructions in NFF's mod description). I did not have any other horse-management or horse-related mods enabled at the time of testing.
This patch only affects horses from vanilla stables that are being managed by Immersive Horses. If you are using non-vanilla horses, Creation Club horses, or other horse-management or horse-related mods that aren't working as intended it's not because of this patch. Other mods will need their own patches.
MO2 will only be able to find "Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp" if you have Relationship Dialogue Overhaul installed (correctly) and enabled.
Edit:Plugins can be disabled when merging or creating a bashed patch, depending on the tool and settings used. Verify that all masters are installed and enabled. If so, then you could possibly be getting an error because the load order doesn't match the expected order of masters in the plugin. This has never caused issues or errors for me, but I read a post about it that suggested to Sort Masters.
So this confirms that those using NFF need not install the IH-RDO patch? Is there any way to tell LOOT about that?
I am 99.99% certain that my tiny patch is not the cause of the infamous Opening Scene Glitch that has plagued Skyrim for over a decade.
The vanilla opening scene is heavily scripted, so having a heavily modded setup initializing at the same time can break it. You can try disabling all of your mods until after Helgen, but a much better and easier solution is to use Alternate Start - Live Another Life. With ASLAL you can wait in the opening cell while all of your scripted mods and their MCM menus initialize. After everything is done initializing, you can choose the vanilla/default start - or an alternate start - which should run without any issues at that point.
If you DO have LOTD installed -> Don't use my patch. Use the patch from Legacy of the Dragonborn Patches (Official).
If you DO NOT have LOTD installed -> Use my patch.
The patch consists of very small edits to two items that carried forward item properties from USSEP and Skyrim 1.5.9.7 update (which included some changes for CC Survival Mode). The edits may be useful in conjunction with any food/drink/potion, survival or "needs" mods - which depend on certain item properties to recognize and categorize food/beverages/potions and apply the proper type of effects.
We're getting off-topic, but it's for that reason that I don't recommend Vortex to anyone. For small to moderate sized load orders, it'll work, but the larger and more complicated your installation gets, the more difficult it becomes to properly manage your load order using LOOT rules exclusively. Because of the inability to contravene the master list in cases such as this (which I think is a terrible design choice on the part of LOOT, frankly), there are even edge cases like this one where it's not possible at all. Because of its design philosophy, Vortex ends up inheriting and magnifying the problems of LOOT. Don't get me wrong: LOOT is an absolutely essential tool, but there are times you shouldn't trust it blindly. It works well enough for load outs consisting of "over 100 mods," but that's not a particularly impressive number, in the scheme of things. My last game had well north of 200 mods, and my current Fallout 4 game is around 400 (thanks to ESLs/ESPFEs). For that kind of build, Vortex is more aggravation than its worth, IMO.
As seancdaug pointed out, the only conflict between the mods is a single record, so whichever .esp loads last will win that conflict. I do understand your confusion though. When it comes to massive or complex mods with multiple (and often conflicting) patches, the load order is sometimes very specific. This just happens to be a simple patch for two mods that share a single conflicting quest record.
The only reason for putting a specific load order in the mod description is because some of the people that still insist on installing and/or ordering mods manually also still haven't figured out that patch(es) should go AFTER the main mod(s). If I don't suggest a load order, then I will inevitably get asked for it by people who don't or can't use mod management tools. If LOOT puts things in a certain order, then it's (almost always) the right order. That's why I asked people to use it.
As to the reason you're still getting the bug, it's not because RDO is loading before Immersive Horses. As long as the patch is installed and loaded after both mods, then the bug should be fixed. It's probably a conflict with another mod, which would require its own patch.
Do you have Beyond Skyrim: Bruma? If so, you will need Immersive Horses - Bruma Patch as well. Did you install ANY other mods that affect HORSES, STABLES, OR DIALOGUE? If you show me your load order I can probably figure it out.
Edit: Are you using the Wild Horses from Creation Club? It may need a patch for Immersive Horses. I'll look into it.
Endorsed!