I think the reason why Emperial and Stormcloak military armor isn't as strong or even expensive as other armors is because of real life logistics. Where military-grade doesn't necessarily mean good, it just means that it's good enough to outfit thousands of poor peasants who couldn't afford to bring their own. It's made thin, it's made cheap, the soldier's weapons are iron that's made just as cheaply. Their main protection is their shields really, meanwhile only the higher ranking soldiers get the good steel armor and swords, as well as bigger beefier shields so that they perform better and survive longer in battle.
Though I certainly agree with this mod where that's not how it should be, despite the logistical demand only being supplied by not-so-dedicated contracted blacksmiths far and wide, it would be really nice if there was a higher standard and quality of life given to our beloved soldiers on the front lines. Otherwise we're just asking for the Aldmeri Dominion to burn a hole through our chests, lol. So good mod, me likey <3
I don't see how this should mean Stormcloak and Imperial armors are so weak. Imperial Armor is made of steel ("They don't make finer steel anywhere else. If this doesn't keep you from dying, nothing will." - Beirand) so it should be on the same tier as Steel Armor, instead Imperial Armor is even worse than basic Iron Armor because it they have the same armor rating but Imperial Armor weighs more. The Stormcloak Cuirass is composed of a gambeson and a chainmail yet regular Leather Armor is 2 tiers above it in Light Armor
Well that's what I'm sayin', the NPCs are not only notoriously subject to pompous and prideful exageration, but the only way equipment actually gets any better than what it's objectively made out of is if it's tempered at a bench and grindstone with extra ingots or is made at the legendary Kynereth-blessed Skyforge. So if blacksmiths don't do any of that then of course the quality of the armor and weapons is going to be just as good if not possibly worse than standard quality for the sake of mass production in supplying an army. Which it apperently is since there's only one smith ever operating the Skyforge who's not even making any armor or weapons for either army since we never find soldiers weilding "skyforge steel" equipment, and not a single black smith through out the entire land has ever sold anything tempered or sharpened on a workbench or grindstone. I mean you'd think a composition of gambison and chainmail would be better than average suits of leather, but it looks like whoever mass produced them didn't (as Orc Smith Gorza from Markarth would say) "heat the metal all the way through".
Armors are only tempered by the player in-game so that's a moot point and the player themselves can forge whatever armor they like at whatever forge they want. Imperial Armor is made of steel, it should be steel tier, not iron tier. This is an issue with the base game tiers, I don't care if it's mass produced when the player can create them as a master blacksmith
So in other words you don't care about or understand the realism of blacksmithing and bloated logistics leading to cheap labor despite whatever in game dialog or books say, you just care about the game mechanics having a consistent hierarchical tier list of items based on what material type they are. Well forget this conversation then, lol
Taking the realism angle but then yapping about bloated logistics to justify steel being weaker than iron is downright hilarious. Wrought iron is objectively weaker (less durable, softer and lower tensile strength) than any kind of steel (even the very poor quality steel Japan traditionally used to forge katanas), that's just how metallurgy and the laws of physics work. Heavy Legion armor is made of steel, even if they are mass-produced using poor quality steel, they'd still be stronger than cheap iron armor you can find off of a low level Bandit, I don't care if you have to take a few points off of Steel Imperial Armor so that it's weaker than the standard Steel Armor, it should be stronger than Iron Armor verbatim. Your point doesn't even make sense within the game considering that we have Steel Plate Armor (actual high quality steel armor) that Steel Legion armor is still inferior to even with this mod.
And this is not even going into how the Stormcloak Cuirass despite featuring a combination of chainmail and a gambeson is equal to armor made from animal fur. Logistics aren't defying common sense, Windhelm could be producing 5 iron and steel ingots a day and the Stormcloak Cuirass as seen in-game should still be superior to Hide and Fur Armor.
Bethesda likely made the Stormcloak and Imperial armor sets equal to the lowest tiered armors because we obtain those armors from the intro of the game and so they would make the early tiers (Hide, Fur, Iron) redundant for the player which is a problem that has long since been made redundant itself by the overbearing popularity of Alternate Start mods
I can answer why the guards are poorly equipped, if you look at our own world back in the middle ages, most guards were given a gambeson (layers of padding for armor) a low grade helmet, and a cheap weapon. The fact that all the guards in skyrim are UNIFORMED beyond a waffenrock, or a hood in their holds colors is amazing, but anyway, they would have to either buy their own armor and weapons as they got pay, or loot corpses of fallen foes, which is why bandits would be well equipped, looting corpses, but also stealing and since a good few encampments (unless I'm remembering wrong) have their own forges, they may even make their own gear. Guards on the other hand cannot get their hands on decent equipment because they are stuck at a specific station most the time, and more often then not, mercenaries handle bandit encampments, and other trouble spots, or it seems that way being the guards are always at their posts instead of raiding a bandit camp, or taking down giants or something. I hope this has informed you all on the likely reason the guards have lesser armor.. Its because they get shitty pay, and haven't been looting often enough, to be honest its more unrealistic that they don't just have an insanely diverse amount of armors, as some of these guys should be decked out, and others should be worse for ware.
TL;DR - Guards are payed crap, and no SANE lord would give each of their guards a full suit of plate armor as its a waste of money that they need to run their hold.
@MrGoatington - Exactly what a product of our current educational climate would say. Unfortunately I doubt you have any functional reasoning capabilities to tell someone else they shouldn't think more deeply. No use crapping on someone that does, your comment is irrelevant.
You hit the nail. Author never read about medieval age nor the economy back. Especially if you consider civil war which comes close to the hundred year war in France, bandits which basically was nothing more than mercenaries had for a time really good finances. Even know, soldiers don't get full equipped in their professional army - very true in Europe. Many have to buy complementary stuff to have the best weapon handling possible and best warfare comfort.
Stormcloak/guard armor is as strong as leather armor but a little heavier. Stormcloak Officer Armor is now as strong as Scaled Armor.
This whole comment falls apart when you realise all the author did was edit Stormcloak Armor to be on the same tier as Leather Armor (idk where you got Plate Armor from) and made Imperial Armor as strong as Steel Armor which is lore-friendly seeing as:
"They don't make finer steel anywhere else. If this doesn't keep you from dying, nothing will." ~Beinard the Blacksmith of the Legion in Solitude
Plus guard dialogues mention that guards are involved in bandit raids
DeathknightDNOfficial The mod author is using something called a "rhetorical question". Are you f_ing stupid? Why the hell are you taking time to write a short essay about historical accuracy?
Have you ever wondered why orcs and trolls are ineligible for Medicare?
wow i dont know why so many people are asking for pictures when this doesnt even change any appearances lmao people really dont read on this site do they
I read, thats why I gave a historical explanation for guards shitty armors. Y'know its amazing to even see guards protecting towns instead of simple militias though, given the civil war and all but whiterun being involved during the early game, it does make some sense. Unnecessary info but you have learned more.
Great idea. It always bugged me that Imperial Heavy armor has stats ~ to the worst heavy armor in the game, Iron. The Legion, which is not-so-loosely modeled after the Marian legions, would not equip its primary front-line heavy infantry, with armor no better than the lowest quality armor available in its northern most province.
I had already made this change in my ASM mod, and Heavy imperial is also set to be the same as basic steel, but I like the other ideas too. Light imperial also bugs me as well. What people fail to realize, is light Imperial troops, are equipped as auxiliaries and support troops, not front line solders really. But their armor, which is neither very thick, heavy, or even offers much in the way of coverage, offers too much AC imo. Nor is light imperial even suitable for a cold climate. Sure it does well enough for guards in the mild climate of Cyrodiil, but looks quite in-adequate for a place with a climate ~ to say, Northern Scotland.
Just thought I'd add that there are 23 ITMs included in the esp. You could also have gone with editing much less of the armor since most the enchanted types are part of a template.
31 comments
Though I certainly agree with this mod where that's not how it should be, despite the logistical demand only being supplied by not-so-dedicated contracted blacksmiths far and wide, it would be really nice if there was a higher standard and quality of life given to our beloved soldiers on the front lines. Otherwise we're just asking for the Aldmeri Dominion to burn a hole through our chests, lol. So good mod, me likey <3
And this is not even going into how the Stormcloak Cuirass despite featuring a combination of chainmail and a gambeson is equal to armor made from animal fur. Logistics aren't defying common sense, Windhelm could be producing 5 iron and steel ingots a day and the Stormcloak Cuirass as seen in-game should still be superior to Hide and Fur Armor.
Bethesda likely made the Stormcloak and Imperial armor sets equal to the lowest tiered armors because we obtain those armors from the intro of the game and so they would make the early tiers (Hide, Fur, Iron) redundant for the player which is a problem that has long since been made redundant itself by the overbearing popularity of Alternate Start mods
TL;DR - Guards are payed crap, and no SANE lord would give each of their guards a full suit of plate armor as its a waste of money that they need to run their hold.
*Ahem* It is just a game, and it is just a mod. Dont really need logical reasoning in a fantasy game with dragons and vampires.
Even know, soldiers don't get full equipped in their professional army - very true in Europe. Many have to buy complementary stuff to have the best weapon handling possible and best warfare comfort.
Have you ever wondered why orcs and trolls are ineligible for Medicare?
Edit: Nevermind, the old file doesn't require it
I had already made this change in my ASM mod, and Heavy imperial is also set to be the same as basic steel, but I like the other ideas too. Light imperial also bugs me as well. What people fail to realize, is light Imperial troops, are equipped as auxiliaries and support troops, not front line solders really. But their armor, which is neither very thick, heavy, or even offers much in the way of coverage, offers too much AC imo. Nor is light imperial even suitable for a cold climate. Sure it does well enough for guards in the mild climate of Cyrodiil, but looks quite in-adequate for a place with a climate ~ to say, Northern Scotland.
Great work.