While I consider the idea of mod collections a nice addition to modding in general, as it allows mod users to try
out mods more easily, which in the end would benefit not only mod users
but also mod authors, seeing an uptake in mod usage.
The donation angle for mod collections, I'm already less happy about, but that is
more related to the fact that I think the current atmosphere of trying
to monetize everything is something I find problematic and unhealthy in
the long run. It is however set up to be donation only and not a
paywall, so that's not too bad...
The two things I, as a mod author, find most problematic are the version pinning and dubiously legal
approach of effectively claiming ownership of someone else's IP.
The version pinning causes mod authors to have to support old, possibly broken
versions in perpetuity, simply because that version ended up in a
collection. Frankly that is not acceptable and that is not how one
should treat the people that form the entire basis of your website. So
my statement about that is that for any support on outdated mods, you
can contact the Nexus staff, since they seem to know best. I will only be supporting
the newest versions of any of my mods.
As for continuing to distribute a mod, even if a mod author removes it,
stating that "what's on the internet stays on the internet" or "what
about the mod users"... Those statements more than likely wouldn't hold up in court.
Now I'm probably not going to remove any of my mods, since that would screw
over a lot of mod users and other mod authors...
And I wasn't going to remove anything even if I decide not to support my mods anymore.
However, it will give me cause to reconsider whether to publish any other mods here in future.
If the day comes that I *do* decide I wish to remove anything, I will pursue legal action, if I have to, to
protect my IP, against what I consider software piracy.
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33 comments
It is even nice from the nexus that they allow deletions, considering that A. that they are well within their rights to not do that with the licenses for the distribution of files they have as per TOS over every uploaded file and B. The system actually profits everyone that actually thinks about what it brings.
A mod author that removes their mods is simply not welcome here by my standards as they either never actually did share their work for bringing joy to the community of the game they are modding for or worse, have always only done it to boost their ego and have power positions.
I might sound harsh but every mod author deleting their mods over this have lost every single respect they may or may not had in my eyes. TMPhoenix, while voicing their opposition hasn't deleted and shows no intention to do so, so I respectfully try to point out where their views are simply founded on wrong assumptions and/or misinformation.
But mod authors nuking their mods have shown their true colors.
@ EzioTheDeadPoet: You sound awfully entitled and I quote 'A mod author that removes their mods is simply not welcome here by my standards as they either never actually did share their work for bringing joy to the community of the game they are modding for or worse, have always only done it to boost their ego and have power positions.'
What gives you the right to demand that mod authors slave away for your benefit, are they expected to do so purely for the privilege of serving their lord and master Ezio?
Secondly, you're a fine one to talk about respect when you clearly have none for the people who are investing enormous amounts of time into mods which they then release, free of charge, for your benefit. You sound awfully entitled and hypocritical. Again I quote 'I might sound harsh but every mod author deleting their mods over this have lost every single respect they may or may not had in my eyes.'
Thank Nexus for that "option"
Since we can't remove one or two mods, they have given us ONE option "Nuke ALL your Mods, or Comply"
BTW, you're "respect" actually has to be worth something in order for people to want it.
You know very well that none of this has jack all to do with "Intellectual property rights". People are removing their mods not for some moral high ground, but because they want more money and prestige...which is why everything that got removed has popped up on Patreon, or some other ,shadier, pay site; even if it, technically, isn't paywalled....yet.
"Sin", would ; perhaps, be a better choice of words than "wrongdoing". By removing your mods from the nexus you are making it harder for people to find mods they (may) like and are actually reducing your user base. You are turning back the clock to the Morriwnd days where prospective modders have to bookmark ten+ sites just to find mods, except now it's 10+ sites and discords.
P.S. This is, ultimately, Bethesda's IP anyhow...since you are using their tools in a limited licensing arrangement.
LOL WUT?
People are removing their mods because they are angry they weren't consulted about the change until a WEEK AFTER the Nexus changed the terms.
And are now not allowed to be able to remove their mods due to bugs, retiring, etc.
Try reading the threads in the main forums about this.
There is no "Prestige and fame" in making mods, we get a handful of DP for downloads here, and so far, the only people I see with Patreons are Mod List makers, one of which that makes $189/mo just making mod lists and uploading them to the WJ server.
That's more than a lot of Modders make.
The right to deletion is just smoke and mirrors, As I said, this whole hullabaloo isn't about morality anymore; it's about money, for the majority of people who have removed their mods.
And if they created those mods don't they have the right to make money off of them? Don't they have a right to have a say in how they are used? Are you that entitled and self-interested that you're prepared to ignore these rights?
The following statement 'The right to deletion is just smoke and mirrors, As I said, this whole hullabaloo isn't about morality anymore; it's about money, for the majority of people who have removed their mods.' certainly seems to paint you as a whiny and entitled mod user of the ilk of 'Lord' Ezio who seems to feel that mod authors should be made to slave away in the dungeon for the sake of your benefit alone.
Let's examine another of your proclamations 'Lord Omega':
'"Sin", would ; perhaps, be a better choice of words than "wrongdoing". By removing your mods from the nexus you are making it harder for people to find mods they (may) like and are actually reducing your user base. You are turning back the clock to the Morriwnd days where prospective modders have to bookmark ten+ sites just to find mods, except now it's 10+ sites and discords.'
Are you that incapable of making the effort to actually invest some time and effort in modding your game? Are you actually concerned about the mod authors' user bases? It doesn't seem as if you are based on the tone of your statements. Is it a 'sin' to demand that one's rights as a mod author be respected and upheld? Is it a 'sin' to displease 'Lord Omega' by making the poor dear actually have to work a little instead of being able to languidly click a single button to install hundreds of mods?
Regarding your proclamation that I know very well that 'none of this has jack all to do with "Intellectual property rights"', how do you know that? Are you now omniscient as well? Are you privy to the inner workings of my thought processes? Perhaps 'Lord Omega' is an 'appropriate appellation' after all. I think not. It does, however, seem entirely possible that a little psychological projection is taking place, in that you are investing others with your own motives, thoughts, intentions, and nature. I wonder if that may not to some degree be the case.
Mainly the fact that an author should read the TOS and the fact that I am a mod author myself and hold myself to those standards.
@HadToRegister:
You are a liar claiming the nexus takes rights from you, while you legally never had those rights, you claim to have about individual files, to beginn with.
Regarding your reasoning and the following statement: 'You are a liar claiming the nexus takes rights from you, while you legally never had those rights, you claim to have about individual files, to beginn with.'
'Intellectual Property
Intangible rights protecting the products of human intelligence and creation, such as copyrightable works, patented inventions, Trademarks, and trade secrets. Although largely governed by federal law, state law also governs some aspects of intellectual property.
Intellectual property describes a wide variety of property created by musicians, authors, artists, and inventors. The law of intellectual property typically encompasses the areas of Copyright, Patents, and trademark law. It is intended largely to encourage the development of art, science, and information by granting certain property rights to all artists, which include inventors in the arts and the sciences. These rights allow artists to protect themselves from infringement, or the unauthorized use and misuse of their creations. Trademarks and service marks protect distinguishing features (such as names or package designs) that are associated with particular products or services and that indicate commercial source.'
Please explain to me how the products and creations of the human intelligence of the mod authors who submit their work to Nexus is exempt from these rights.
Secondly, simply because you are prepared to submit to, or condone, certain behaviours, that by no means dictates that other mod authors should kowtow or follow suit. How you behave regarding your own mods is entirely your own business. How others choose to behave is theirs. What gives you the right to dictate to them?
Since you've been reduced to ad hominem attacks; I rest my case. There is a reason people think mod authors are petty individuals.
P.S. Bethesda grants you a Limited license for your work, and I highly doubt it would actually hold up in court without their backing.
I notice that you've yet to answer a question directly, beyond hiding behind the argument that intellectual property rights (which are accorded to the creator of a unique work) are superceded by Bethesda's limited license. If this is not your argument or opinion, please clarify it.
'Since you've been reduced to ad hominem attacks; I rest my case. There is a reason people think mod authors are petty individuals.' Is this an ad hominem attack I see before me? Please clarify.
This is not happening, and even close to defamation. You only granted unrestricted distribution rights in the form of an unlimited license, so you still have the ownership of the IP.
You are in no way required to support them. It is the responsibility of the collection author. And you yourself answered, how you can fix this, just don't support the old versions.
The license to distribute any archive you uploaded to the nexus as per TOS does hold up in court, not to mention that it will be hard to find a court and lawyer to fight over a case where no money gain is involved as modding is a free thing and the Bethesda rules contained in the CK EULA, forbid the selling of mods.
As you put it yourself you are profiting form this system and as I explained you still are the owner of your mod. And to be frank any file and mod hosting site has the same stuff in their TOS, often even worse actually stealing your ownership, unlike the nexus. Also unlike the nexus you can't earn donations from the file/mod hosting site directly.
Look, I create things all the time. I build new machiens, some of them world firsts... the people paying me own that machine and can do whatever they want with it. Most things are not patentable or copyright-able... or even if you do get a patent or copyright it probably will not hold up against a serious legal challenge.
Everyone knows modding is "free" and mods are a community based share - authors and users are in a Public commons so to speak. If someone wants to keep their mods entirely under their control.. don't put them in the public commons! Or under the perfectly legals terms and conditions of others.
Authors want their mods to be used, and they give up control when posting them in a commons space, wether they realize it or not.
How popular do you think a mod would be hosted on a private site that is one of a thousand private sites?
None of you upset by these changes should ever start your own business. You will end up very unhappy!
If you keep your insistence on control, you will find you will end up with very little control or, frankly, anything else.
Same here.
Were I a mod author, I'd likely pursue a similar course. I'd leave any existing work up here, because by removing my stuff I'd be more-so harming users and fellow authors than my real target... Nexus. However, I'd release any subsequent mods elsewhere, with a link to said place in the description pages of everything I was keeping here.
I strongly suggest you talk to a lawyer now, before the August 5th deadline, if you believe legal action will help you in the future.
don't wait to persue this
I was in the middle of several updates to my mods, and several new releases, which I will also most likely not be using Nexus for. I contacted the author that gave me permissions to convert their LE works to SE, to see if they want me to delete the files or not. Having received their permission to begin with, puts me in the position to have to safeguard THEIR works now as well. Whether or not Nexus is actively trying to "steal" ownership of files or not, now is the only time I'll have to secure that.
I sure do regret buying that lifetime membership now...
It's not paywall? Thought people said mod collections would be a premium only feature... Did they very recently change that? And I too really hate that their taking ownership of others ip/mods, doesn't seem like that's needed for mod collections. Instead when a mod is deleted, just make it so that all collections that had it will get some warning that it's missing a mod. Anyway, this post you made might get removed, nexus mods seem to be doing that with any post against mod collections : /