Skyrim

Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

  • Comment
Before I get in to the minor updates we've made to the site in light of the major news yesterday I will quickly address the matter of our forums being slow and/or down.

Obviously this news has been a huge deal, and probably exploded far more than Valve and Bethesda realised it would (and not particularly positively, lets face it!). Some of the spotlight has been shined on the Nexus as a result of that. Some people have expressed concern we'll go the same way (they obviously don't read the site news) or that it'll affect us negatively some how. Everything you see here is completely free, and it's definitely staying that way. About 40 mods have been hidden in the Skyrim Nexus section since this announcement, most of which are people afraid their mods are going to be stolen and uploaded to Steam for profit. Our forums have also been struggling to keep up with the increase in traffic that's come from the spotlight being placed on us and so they've either been crawling along at a snails pace or they've been taken down by us while we try and tweak things as much as possible.

The forums are the only element of the site infrastructure that we didn't update in our big 16 month, $250,000 infrastructure update we did over this and last year. We wanted to keep the forums running on a separate system to the sites so that if one went down, the other would still (hopefully) be up, and vice-versa. Hence why the Nexus sites themselves are working fine and the forums aren't. We're working to rectify that so if the forums go down, that's us working on it. We wanted a bit of a rest from infrastructure upgrades after the soul crushing experience we had last year, but we'll look in to sorting out the forums now.

Now, on to the changes we've made today.


Donations

The donation system on the Nexus has been brought up and talked about a lot over the past few months in our private mod author forums (mod authors with 1,000 or more unique downloads gain access). Way before this announcement by Valve and Bethesda it was agreed that the donation system needed to be made more prominent because a lot of users still weren't aware the system even existed on the sites.

We are going to look in to loosening up our donation rules slightly. One of my main issues, to this day, with mod pages is how awful some file page descriptions are. Some mod descriptions are buried underneath change logs, latest news, FAQs, information about the author's dog in the vets and so on and so forth. Sometimes it can be a real struggle just to find the freaking description of what the mod actually does. I have not, and do not ever want a mod description tab to contain information about (or begging for) endorsements, votes or donations. However, something I will explore is adding a donation box below the main content area of a file page. So if you reach the bottom of the file description, there'll be a new box underneath that where an author can talk about donations with a donation link. A good use of that area might be to list and thank the people who've already donated and to explain what the donation money, if there is any, will go towards. That way, there's a specific place for authors to talk about donations that, most importantly for me, doesn't detract from the importance of talking about what the mod actually does. As I said, that's just something we're looking in to right now and, if feedback is positive on this idea, we could have something out next week. But until then our rules have not changed on specifically asking for donations in your file descriptions. It's still a big no-no.

On to updates we've actually made today: we were busy working on an update to the image uploading system to be far more efficient based on mod author feedback, but we've sidelined that in the mean-time to focus on these quick updates before the weekend hits.

We've made a quick, preliminary update to the sites that allows mod authors to show a donation information box before a user downloads their file. The box looks and acts the same way as the "required files" box before downloads. If you've used the site enough you'll have come across mods that require other mods in order to work. Some mod authors have turned on the functionality that will inform users who go to download their files of these required files. Now, as a mod author, you can turn on a donation box which uses the same system. When a user clicks to download one of your files an information box will come up explaining the donation system with a direct button link users can click to donate. If the user does not want to donate all they need to do is click the "Continue with my download button" and the download will begin as per before.

This adds another click to a user's downloading process but we think, in light of these major, sweeping changes we're seeing in our modding community, it's a very small price to pay to get the word out there a bit more about donations.

Many mod authors have expressed that they don't want to make a living from their modding hobby, but a free cup of coffee or pint of beer every now and again goes a long way to making them happy and content with the tens, hundreds and even thousands of hours they put into modding. And happy mod authors are often better mod authors in my book. Most of all, it doesn't hurt anyone. Unless one extra click hurts you (if so, you might want to see a doctor about that).

This new functionality is opt-in for all mod authors right now. In order to opt-in, you need to fill in your donation preferences on the site and turn on the options in all the files that you want to turn donations on for. If you'd previously turned on donations for all your files then all your files will continue to have donations on by default, but the donation box is not on by default. Which leads us to the next quick update.

Donations are no longer global across all your file pages. Originally, you either turned donations on for all your files or none of your files. This led to a few issues because many mod authors collaborate with other authors, which resulted in a donation button showing for one mod author but not another. Which is not ideal. So now you can cherry pick the exact files you want to show a donation button for and what files you don't. The option to turn on the pre-download donation box is another option on top of that which, once again, you can specify on a per-file basis.

We still have a glaring issue of how, or even if, we can split donations between mod teams. The problem is that I really, really, do not want to touch any donation money. I don't want to act as a middle-man between a user and a mod author when it comes to donations, I'd just rather a user donated to a mod author directly. The inherent problem with that is, because there's no way of knowing what file a donation was for, there's no way of being able to differentiate between a donation for a file that an author made on their own and a donation for a file an author made with a team. It's something we're going to have to think about, because the only way I can think of getting around that particular issue is having some sort of Steam Wallet style system in place on the Nexus that records all the donations sent for all files and mod authors. And I absolutely loathe that idea.


Permission changes regarding paid mods

The modding community, especially with Bethesda games, is built on mods that use assets from other mods. Many mods are stand-alone and use completely unique or vanilla assets, but many also use assets from other mods. On top of that, many modders release their mods as "modders resources", essentially saying to people "take whatever you want from my mod and use it in yours". The introduction of paid for mods changes that. Some mod authors have already taken their mods down because they're afraid their assets or even their entire mods will be stolen and added to the new Steam Workshop without their permission. Many more have said they are now unsure if they'll ever release another modder's resource again.

We obviously do not want that to happen, and the fact it has happened already leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The taste of one side of what money is bringing to modding. We've even had our first mod taken down from the paywall section of Skyrim Workshop related to this issue, less than 24 hours in. And these were the mods vetted by Valve and Bethesda themselves! Gooooood start. Big sarcastic thumbs up.

While I'm talking about this fear of mods or assets being stolen, I feel I need to point out a massive, glaring issue with this new Workshop implementation, because right now people are focusing on "Oh my god, you mean I might need to pay for some mods?" while I think an even more horrific thing is "Oh my god, you mean I will have to pay to check and make sure if someone has stolen my work!?". Let me explain. The new implementation is set up so that there's a 7-day grace period after an author uploads a file with a pricetag. During these 7 days users can view the file page, look at the pictures and read the description, but they cannot download the file. The idea of this grace period is to get the community to police new uploads before they're added to make sure that nothing bad is added to the paid section of the site. Seems like a good idea. Except if a mod author is using stolen assets from other people's mods.

Unless the thief is pants on head stupid they're not going to talk about stealing assets from other mods or put up pictures that would suggest assets have been stolen. The only way the authors of the assets that have been stolen will know it's happened is if someone buys the mod and then tells the author. At which point the author is either going to have to engage in the new world of mod piracy (which began yesterday in earnest) or they're going to have to buy the mod for themselves. So you want to say, "But Dark0ne, the author can buy the mod, investigate, then ask for a refund, as there's a refund system!". Yes, there's a refund system. A refund system that refunds you in Steam Wallet money that you can never take out of Steam. So once you've bought that mod, that money will always be Valve's from that point on. Refund or not. That, I'm sorry to say, is batshit. Freaking. Crazy. Add to that the fact that the mod may have made substantial sums of money before it's spotted, some of which may have already been paid to the thief, or alternatively has been removed from the thief's account before they could get the payout and, guess where the money goes then? That's right. Valve's coffers.

So if you're wondering why some mod authors have pulled their mods already, if you think it's silly or a daft knee-jerk reaction, you might want to rethink your position. I'm most definitely not trying to encourage more mod authors to do that, but I won't begrudge them doing it, and I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend like it isn't happening just so some mod authors don't find out the ugly truth and stick around. I think everyone should know everything there is to know about this. What I'd rather people did was put some pressure on Valve to find a way around this awful idea of profiting off stolen mods. Even if it's a way of refunding money properly instead of it being Steam Wallet money, that'd be a good start. My other idea would be for Valve to offer to donate any money that came from proven stolen mods that have been taken down to charity. That would be an awesome gesture.

In light of this issue, and because I know a lot of mod authors have either come out on one side or the other on the issue, we've added a new permissions check box to file page settings (found under "Edit Attributes", towards the bottom). The setting reads "Users can not use my assets in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms". You can either tick it or untick it, and that information will be displayed under the Permissions and Credits link as per usual.

It's important that's there to ensure that users can still provide a blanket "Yes, you can use my work in your mods" statement while also clarifying "except if you're going to charge for it", or "even if you charge for it", depending on where you stand. This box is ticked by default. You will need to untick it if you want to allow mod authors to profit off your work.

Time will only tell how well Valve and Bethesda are going to handle these issues, and I'd say stolen assets being used in paid mods is one of, if not the biggest issue right now. Some of the rumours going around are not nice to hear, but we've got to let the dust settle and see what comes of all of this. It's too early to tell. I appreciate it's ironic to say that after I just had a little rant, but my god, it's already freaking happened, less than a day in, and I've smashed my head in to my desk on more than one occasion today in disbelief because of it. So not a great start from Valve and Bethesda, but yes, it's still to early to tell.

904 comments

  1. ManleySteele
    ManleySteele
    • premium
    • 276 posts
    • 6 kudos
    I don't know what any of you intend to do to prepare for the future, but I know what I'm going to do.
     
    At the moment I'm deciding between Unreal Engine 4 and Cryengine 4. As soon as that decision is final, I'm going to start building a world.  When that world is presentable, I'm going to upload it to the Nexus.  Once it is uploaded, anyone who thinks they can build a game can use it, modify it, build a game based on it, etc.,etc.,etc.  I don't care what you do. It may or, more likely, may not have houses, villages, farms, cities, livestock, wildlife, yada, yada, yada. All you'll need to use it is the same engine I choose.
     
    Don't get me wrong. I'm not doing this out of the goodness of my heart. It's an itch I would have scratched, eventually, in any case.  World building is not some arcane undertaking that only the celebrated few can attempt.  No one is born knowing how to do it. I'll get you started if you need it and then you're on your own.
     
    I casually invite anyone with a similar itch to beat me to the punch.  After all, we're going to be in the same boat for a long time. Whichever engine I choose, someone else should grab the other and outdo me.
     
    We could very easily be curating our own games, without any interference from publishers, DRMists or any other ists of any type. I've been meaning to issue this challenge for a while. Now seems a perfect time.
     
    The glove's on the ground. Pick it up. I dare you.
    1. AndreaCristiano
      AndreaCristiano
      • supporter
      • 449 posts
      • 14 kudos
      Basically building a new game from scratch! Very very interesting! I always thought a game like Skyrim is the best possible game ever but it had to be rebuild again to address papyrus problems and memory-related problems. Having a more stable game would be just the paradise for a modding comunity.
      We could create our own game looking at the manpower displayed in creating DLC-like mods!
    2. Marspoet
      Marspoet
      • premium
      • 73 posts
      • 0 kudos
      I too have been thinking about pursuing this path as a means of escaping Bethesda's increasingly crappy offerings. It's been made very clear by Bethesda since Oblivion that they are most interested in and happiest with developing mediocre games for nine year olds on the game consoles and as far as they (Bethesda) are concerned, the PC gamers can go diddle as a good cash cow should.

      What galls me the very most about this situation concerning game mods is that the vast majority of mods I've installed into my Skyrim are meant to fix or otherwise ameliorate flaws and poor design decisions made originally by Bethesda themselves, and now they want to profit on the fixing of their own crap as well? A pox on the lot of them.

      Please let me know what engine you choose and why you chose that one. I'm interested.
    3. ManleySteele
      ManleySteele
      • premium
      • 276 posts
      • 6 kudos
      Right now I'm downloading Foliage packs for Unreal Engine 4. I chose it because I have some small experience with it. I'll have to update my Visual Studio in order to do any scripting but that was due to happen anyway. The other reason I chose Unreal is because you can get the source.

      Once I'm up and running in Unreal Engine 4, I'll probably take a subscription to Cryengine, as well. Nothing quite like a direct comparison to focus your choices.

      Cryengine has one advantage, in that so long as you never charge for the game, you never pay either, unless you continue your subscription.
    4. Marspoet
      Marspoet
      • premium
      • 73 posts
      • 0 kudos
      "Cryengine has one advantage, in that so long as you never charge for the game, you never pay either, unless you continue your subscription."

      I see the same in the FAQ for the Unreal Engine.

      Consider the restrictions they impose carefully. As this whole controversy over Skyrim mods shows, when the pool of value gets large enough, those who can will try to monetise it and they won't care about who or what gets trashed in the process.

      The only way to avoid this is set restrictions which prevent anyone from monetising the pool of value. There are ways to do this, but it needs to be done early to be effective or there will be constant fighting to gain advantage for future gain instead of constant creation of value.
    5. ManleySteele
      ManleySteele
      • premium
      • 276 posts
      • 6 kudos
      You are right, of course. This little project will have to be treated as a journey. I'll be learning as I go, not least concerning the business sense to make a free product using commercial tools. If I don't get it right, I'll be out time and not much else. Still, a goal and a schedule is important in these things. lol
    6. Yurarus1
      Yurarus1
      • member
      • 1 posts
      • 0 kudos
      your "itch" had been my dream from childhood, thus i was waiting till i finish my army enlistment to pursue that dream .
      I didn't finish it but i would love to help you in any way i can ,i am sure of one thing i will learn important things to still pursue my dream or concentrate on your starting world.
      my knowledge is -10 in modding or game constructing , but i learn fast .
      thus you have my support and i will try to look out for your world to start learning and expanding it.
  2. PerfectByNature
    PerfectByNature
    • member
    • 10 posts
    • 0 kudos
    I'm so sick of all the crybabies that expect everything for free. If it isn't mods, it's games, if it isn't games it's movies. If it isn't movies it's music...

    I'm all for modders being able to earn money from their projects. Especially the really big ones. If you don't want to pay for it, well don't. Download something that's free.

    I'm especially fed up with every crybaby crying out for a donation button instead.. Guess what, most big modders already had donation options and most never received any donations at all. So shut up about that option because you'll never use it anyway. All you do is talk, never any actions.
    This new option is a fantastic idea which will help motivate those really ambitious modders to create amazing mods such as Falskaar. Chances will improve that they won't abandon them in the end.
    Sure there's some flaws with the new paid system, but it's not final yet and will probably improve along the way. The 25% thing is of course really low and should be raised to atleast 35% imo.

    I personally have never donated to any mod-author but i will buy their mods if the mod interests me and the price is right.

    I would gladly pay 1-3 dollars for these mods (as an example) just to help the authors stay motivated and come back with more amazing mods:
    • Dragon Combat Overhaul
    • Immersive Armors
    • SkyUI
    • Falskaar (haven't downloaded it tho, but if i was interested i would pay for it no doubt)
    • Deadly Dragons
    • Frostfall
    • Book of silence

    I hope for the love of god that Valve improves the new paid system instead of shutting it down.

    And to Dark0ne: You should of course take those 5% if the author's decide you deserve it, don't listen to the trolls. Keep doing what you're doing and try to help Valve/Bethesda improve the system instead.
    1. Flenzil
      Flenzil
      • supporter
      • 4 posts
      • 0 kudos
      I think it's a bit short-sighted for you to say that you'd gladly pay for mods based on that list. Of course you'd pay for those mods, you've had years of playing with them and seeing how reliable the modders are. I think it's a bit different when it comes to a new modder that you've never heard of who, as far as you know, could take your money and never update the mod if a game update breaks it, or another popular mod is incompatable with it. I think mods, and the quality thereof, are just too volatile to put behind a paywall. I could never trust a mod enough to pay without playing with it for a while first. And what if you buy a mod, say a grass textures mod or something, and then a new grass textures mod comes out that's better than the one you just bought (it has less incompatibilities for instance)? I'll have to pay again for essentially the same mod just so I can play the game without glitches and crashes due to incompatibilities. And how about mods that have pre-requisites? I'll have to buy all the other mods just so I can get the one I want. Pretty soon, I've payed more on the mods than I did on the game itself. I'm all for modders being rearded for their efforts but putting them behind a paywall seems to be the worst way to do it.
    2. PerfectByNature
      PerfectByNature
      • member
      • 10 posts
      • 0 kudos
      There's ways for mod-authors to demo their mods.
      For example:
      Free versions that has one or a few features stripped.
      Youtube-mod reviewers.

      And how likely do you think it is that a completely unknown modder would be able to earn a living from mods? Not likely. Most modders will have to build their rep up using free mods or really cheap but awesome mods.
      Creating weapons & armor packs is one example. And those won't "break" due to a game update.

      Most people are just negative because they have to pay, coming up with all sort of ridiculous reasons why it would be bad.
      "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.
      "what if a similar mod comes out but it's better?" - Same thing here, no one is forcing you to "upgrade" and there's plenty of free mods that probably does the same or similar thing.

      The paid mod system is customer steered. If you want to pay för lame mods, free ones or just the really ambitious mods go ahead.
    3. 92DemonKing
      92DemonKing
      • supporter
      • 1,080 posts
      • 30 kudos
      "I would have to pay x amount of dollars since my mod list is 2xx" - Well there's still well over 40k free mods out there for skyrim. No one's saying you have to have 2xx paid mods.

      You are being short sighted and completely ignore one thing, which is the reason so many people are angry about this. You say there are "over 40k free mods out there". But wait a few years and new games and those free mods for new games won't exist and you have to pay for every single mod.

      Which means that if you wanted to use 200 mods you'd have to pay for every one of them, no alternative. make it they each cost 1$, that's 200$ = the vast majority of people cannot afford it = modding community and PC advantage killed of.

      That's where this will lead. Spending 60$ for a game, then 30$ per DLC, then 1$ per mod in a game like Skyrim? The cost would go over 800$. Good luck keeping up with that.

      The sad and stupid part is that big part of the reason Bethesda sold so many copies of Skyrim was because of the craze over unlimited FREE mods. Take that away and Skyrim is just a game like many others that would have died off in less than a year. So if the paid mods thing becomes standard, companies will effectively be killing off their own free marketing...
    4. Flenzil
      Flenzil
      • supporter
      • 4 posts
      • 0 kudos
      There's a lot of people out there that would say that a lot of Bethesda's games are close to unplayable on PC (Crash to Desktops, poorly done textures, getting stuck in rocks etc.). There are mods out there that fix these things, like the Unofficial Skyrim Patch. It seems like Bethesda is content to releasing quite a broken game and just letting other people fix it. Fallout 3 still has these problems and that was released 7 years ago. What if the unofficial patch decided to put the mod behind a paywall? I'd have to pay for a mod to fix the glitches found in the game I just payed for, and Bethesda wants a cut of that money too. And imagine if I wanted to play Skyrim, but found I had to also buy Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion in order to play it?

      What about the fact that free mods could be easily stolen and sold on the Steam Workshop? That could discourage people from making free mods in the first place (I think some people have already removed thier mods because of this).

      I think that if there was an easily visible, easy-to-use donate button; people would use it. I mean, I could easily get anything on Netflix for free, but I don't because Netflix has made it more convenient to pay, I could get anything that Steam sells for free, but I don't because Steam makes it more convienient to pay. I could get any song I want for free, but I don't because I want to support the artist. If there was simply a big button next to " download " that was a one-click donate button, I would donate to those modders whose mods I use extensively and enjoy. But with the system now I feel like I have to gamble whether the mod is: functional, stable, fun or simply worth the money (much like early-access or kickstarter).
    5. AndreaCristiano
      AndreaCristiano
      • supporter
      • 449 posts
      • 14 kudos
      I have 300 mods. If I did have to pay 1 dollar for each one of them I'd quit playing Skyrim in no time.
    6. madpaddy
      madpaddy
      • premium
      • 6,917 posts
      • 91 kudos
      So you havent donated to any mods and have only bothered to endorse 4 mods in 2 yrs but you hate cry babies who want stuff for free, because hay your not one of them right you pay your way and encourage them by giving the endorsements right...Oh wait.
    7. jet4571
      jet4571
      • premium
      • 5,961 posts
      • 391 kudos
      Going to offer him some burn cream madpaddy? I think he may need some now.
    8. headlesswonder
      headlesswonder
      • member
      • 19 posts
      • 6 kudos
      Your notion that the concerns which have been voiced regarding this debacle are being issued by "all of the crybabies that expect everything for free" is ignorant, at best. Many well-known modders have made very clear that they will not take part in it for various reasons. Do they fit your image of crybabies who just want to get everything for free? They're the ones creating the mods and are refusing to participate in something that they feel will ultimately taint the spirit of the community.

      As I mentioned in a more general post, perhaps coming from an old-school mod community mentality contributes to my opposition of charging for mods. I was one of the more well-known modders for Morrowind. I also assisted a few mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. I worked on projects that took hundreds of hours to complete. I loved it. It was not a job. It was born of love of the game. It was sharing something I love with others who also it. It was commonplace to see great modders offering suggestions, unrequested, to other great modders, and being "paid" in kind because the general mentality was that it was a community of people who shared a common passion. It was possible to accept donations at the time and most of the modders outright refused the notion. I don't begrudge anyone accepting donations (although I was never comfortable doing so, myself), however, outright charging for mods is something I find disgraceful.

      In addition to that, complications regarding the selling of others' assets abound, regardless of whether or not the original author is pro or against selling their own content. It isn't even just the blatant theft of another's work which is still readily available. It is that plenty of mods which do not include express wording regarding profit as it was never necessary due to legal issues (and the overall sharing mentality of the community) are stored on many a hard drive even if they have now been removed from future public access. The ramifications of it are far-reaching in terms of good faith in the community.

      It was never about greed. This is absolutely greed on the parts of anyone who participates. Everything does not have to be about money. I realize that some feel that modders should be compensated for their "work" which is not in and of itself a negative intention, however, I would like to point out that modding has never been seen as an additional job. For that matter, there are plenty of modders who do still reap the benefits of modding as they are able to build a portfolio in doing so. The exception to that, my opinion, is the potential for the game developer to legitimately purchase a large scale mod for a fair price to include in future games and/or DLC (with credit, to the originator, as well) which would be an amazing opportunity for any talented modder.

      What really gets me about your rant is that in the same breath, you condescend to those who are in support of donation buttons rather than fees because they'd "never use it anyway" and immediately admit that you have never done so, yourself. If you were truly concerned for all of us poor, neglected modders rather than just taking the opportunity to behave like a donkey's rear in assuming you understand why such a large chunk of the community is unhappy with this decision, you'd have donated to those of your favorite modders who accept compensation long before now. All talk, no action, isn't that what you said?

      Since when is a simple upvote, endorsement, comment singing a mod's praises or a "thank you" not enough for doing something you already love doing? This reminds me of all those little bastards who go door to door in elderly neighborhoods, asking the old folks to pay them $10 for shoveling their walks. Perhaps some younger people don't understand the concept that money should not be the most important thing in everything you do.

      At the very least, make note that the opposition is about much more than whiners wanting everything for free.
    9. phantompally76
      phantompally76
      • member
      • 1,198 posts
      • 51 kudos
      PerfectByNature, your glaring hypocrisy is shameful.
    10. PerfectByNature
      PerfectByNature
      • member
      • 10 posts
      • 0 kudos
      No you guys are shamefull.. Do you really think mod-authors give a sh*t about endorsement in the end? Endorsements won't keep the author from abandoning mods.

      And no i haven't donated and neither have you probably. If you have well done, you're one of the few.
    11. falcor23
      falcor23
      • supporter
      • 13 posts
      • 0 kudos
      Thats what people are failing to understand this is the digital age EVERYTHING online is free in one form or another and if people don't wanna pay they wont. People just want a way to pay that they don't feel like they are being forced at gun point to pay for something they have gotten for free for 10+ years and have ZERO guarantees that will work or will even be compatible with other paid mods. (other than a shady 24 hour return policy which is laughable at best).

      Though I gotta say its nice to see the community stand up and start conversations on this scale about something they feel strongly about, normally is incoherent death threats and pissing contests on steam forums and it fizzles away in a day.

      This topic one way or another will change how modding works forever.

      Ps. Dark0ne you deserve all the money you can get, you run one helluva site.
    12. 92DemonKing
      92DemonKing
      • supporter
      • 1,080 posts
      • 30 kudos
      @ PerfectByNature

      And you completely ignored any argument brought up and insulted both modders and users at the same time...

      gj...
    13. Mr. Dave
      Mr. Dave
      • supporter
      • 3,656 posts
      • 436 kudos
      To the OP, I 'd love to see Immersive Armors on the paid section. I could use an extra 110,000 dollars from the subsequent and immediate lawsuit.

      You see, while you are on your bashing rant about people being "crybabies" (getting reported for that by the way), you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people. So instead of coming on here and attacking people for rightfully being angry, why don't you do yourself a favor and actually read current international copyright laws.
    14. PerfectByNature
      PerfectByNature
      • member
      • 10 posts
      • 0 kudos
      @Mr. Dave

      "you completely forgot to pay attention to the fact that most of the mods out there use content that was made by other people"

      No actually i didn't forget that. You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits. And if you didn't notice, they were examples of mods i would actually pay for if they were for sale, however they're not. Don't forget to open your eyes the next time your in traffic, otherwise you might hurt yourself.
    15. coolcorey298
      coolcorey298
      • member
      • 1 posts
      • 0 kudos
      there is one mod called floating chair it is $99.99 not even a joke
    16. deleted150604
      deleted150604
      • account closed
      • 347 posts
      • 38 kudos
      So why is it that despite showing glaring idiocy and density, you think you get to make shots like you won an argument? I think you should make sure next time you're in traffic that it's not a schizoid illusion like the point you were trying to make.
    17. headlesswonder
      headlesswonder
      • member
      • 19 posts
      • 6 kudos
      "You however forgot that multiple authors can sell a mod as a group and split the profits."

      The point that you (seemingly intentionally) miss is just how many mods are created using assets from multiple authors who may or may not wish to participate in the selling of their content. Considering how many modders have voiced their strong opposition to the principle of it, it's fair to say they would be furious when they found that someone had sold a mod that contained their assets, not because they didn't get a cut, but because (let's see again if you can grasp the concept) they do not agree with the principle of monetizing mods.

      For that matter, please don't speak for mod authors. For most the vast majority of us, simple thanks (or endorsements) are more than enough payment for doing something we are passionate about.

      That having been said, I guess you can get your clicking finger ready if donation options become available for your favorite mods, huh?

      http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

      Time will tell what the lasting effect will be within the community.
    18. nefariouis
      nefariouis
      • member
      • 3 posts
      • 0 kudos
      @perfect by nature Actually i think you missed his point.
      there are very few mods that have not made use of "free for non profit resources"
      object files, textures, sound samples, etc, fan fiction when turned to commercial gain Becomes theft of intellectual property. using the likeness of a celebrity also becomes a no go, refences or content "borrowed from other franchises.
      when you decide to make a mod commercial you better damn well make sure you have "commercial rights" to absolutely every element contained within. It won't be bethesda or valve nailed to a cross if you don't. they're small print will leave you staked out for the vultures.

      As for mod authors selling as a group, you are making the rather arrogant assumption that just because one author is using the resources of others for commercial gain the rest will happily jump on the bandwagon irrelevant of their own personal opinions.
  3. User_133263
    User_133263
    • account closed
    • 3,566 posts
    • 231 kudos
    Spoiler:  
    Show

     
    EDIT : Taken this post to its own topic in the feedback section http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2809344-Dark0ne-or-staff-new-donation-pop-up-not-working/
  4. ContagiousCure
    ContagiousCure
    • supporter
    • 239 posts
    • 7 kudos
    So a few questions about the whole steam workshop mod paywall...
     
    1. What happens if a mod is released behind a paywall but uses resources from another mod that is free? What happens if those resources are later put behind a paywall?
     
    2. What rights does a person obtain by buying a mod? I often download mods just for their resources to make my own mods. Would I then be prohibited from releasing the mod for free? Would I be prevented from selling the mod? Would my 25% be further divided to pay a percentage to the creators of the resources (i.e. what Bethesda is essentially doing)?
     
    3. Is there a trial or demo system or a refund system? 95% of the mods I download on nexus I don't end up keeping after I realise I don't like them.
     
    4. Will users be able to keep using (legally) mods they downloaded while they were free before the author decided to put them behind a paywall?
    1. Dreguk
      Dreguk
      • member
      • 2 posts
      • 0 kudos
      That, IMO, it's one of the great problems regarding this system. If not the root of all the problem...

      How do I know if what I'm paying for is really worthy? Or, how do I know if what I'm paying for doesn't gonna crash my game or my pc?
      I mean, some of us (users and mod developers) cannot afford to pay for something we don't even know if it is going to be good or not. Either for the game experience or just for the fun.
      Some of the mods I downloaded are just for experimenting. Then I either unninstall them or post my oppinion and comment on the discussion board. There are times when I trade some words with my friends too.

      If we users, and of course you developers, need to pay for something we don't even know if it is going to meet our expectations or solve our problems and there is no way to be refunded... Well, that's some kind of a problem.
    2. ContagiousCure
      ContagiousCure
      • supporter
      • 239 posts
      • 7 kudos
      Most definitely. A lot of mod authors release alphas and even pre-alphas for players to playtest or provide feedback or help with coding etc. I loved that about the modding community, because it was just everyone working together to improve the game or to make a shared vision of the game come true.
  5. Cworth
    Cworth
    • member
    • 10 posts
    • 0 kudos
    Well the petition worked and Valve/Bethesda have removed the option for paid for mods

    https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop/u/10645665

    http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/
    1. DCWillis
      DCWillis
      • account closed
      • 96 posts
      • 1 kudos
      Thanks for the links.

      "We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set," it wrote in a new Bethesda Blog post. "It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own." There are downsides: The availability of mods is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, "costing us millions of dollars," it continued. Even so, "while others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it."

      The fact that the game can be modded boosted sales so Bethesda is out of touch with that statement. The lack of a graphics overhaul cost them on Oblivion not mods. Besides Skyrim probably should not have been rated teen at any rate. Lets face it the game is a medieval version of GTA.

      I bought Morrowind and Oblivion just in case Skywind etc... actually get released.
  6. User_133263
    User_133263
    • account closed
    • 3,566 posts
    • 231 kudos
    Its dead

    https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
     
    Removing Payment Feature From Skyrim Workshop
    28 APRIL - ALDEN


    We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree. 

    We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different. 

    To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it. 

    But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here. 

    Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know.


     
     
    And the paywall is empty

    http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=72850&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems&days=7&requiredflags%5B%5D=paiditems
  7. screweduptonight
    screweduptonight
    • member
    • 33 posts
    • 1 kudos
    Paying for mods, no way in hell. Forever free till I am cold and dead in the ground, I would encourage free sharing of mods people paid for on Steam in protest. Sorry but I hope Valve suffers for this STUPID decision, I guess I am not going to buy anything more from them on Steam until they reverse this and play what I have.

    Honestly Valve are a bunch of greedy filthpigs, and they need to realize how hated they are going to become in the modding community.
  8. Hilda1007
    Hilda1007
    • premium
    • 46 posts
    • 0 kudos
    I have no objection to paying for mods. Some mods are so brilliant the authors deserve something for their hard work and dedication. In fact, the "endorse" system is a bit weak - I want to be able to tell the modders how brilliantly fantastic they have made my gaming experience. (eg Skyfall Estate in Skyrim. Rose Red Manor in Oblivion, to mention just two out of many, many....) But I object to how Steam (and to lesser extent, Bethesda) have climbed on the money bandwagon. My big fear is that as the big boys on the block they will win out to the detriment of modders, gamers and the Nexus community. We're watching this one with bated breathe!
  9. SharkyBytesz
    SharkyBytesz
    • member
    • 24 posts
    • 1 kudos
    The Steam Workshop can **** themselves as long as the Nexus stays free.
    1. phantompally76
      phantompally76
      • member
      • 1,198 posts
      • 51 kudos
      Until you want to use a mod that requires the LATEST version of SkyUI, eh? Eh comrade?
    2. Mrfizzledude
      Mrfizzledude
      • member
      • 1 posts
      • 0 kudos
      Yeah really I don't know why people are getting so worked up about this whole paying for mods thing, as long as nexus stays free, I could care f*cking less about the steam workshop.
    3. runningwild09
      runningwild09
      • supporter
      • 124 posts
      • 1 kudos
      Exactly.People like OP get too worked up. When it rains, THE SKY IS FALLING! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. When a paid mod gets added but then removed. GAME MODDING IS COMING TO AN END! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
    4. Elta1
      Elta1
      • premium
      • 203 posts
      • 7 kudos
      @phantompally76 why would it require it? He said that 4.1 will always have the most update MCM files so you do not need to get the latest version.
    5. Chai Pei
      Chai Pei
      • member
      • 186 posts
      • 0 kudos
      runningwild09
      Mrfizzledude
      You're not really bright ones are you? Now if modders don't start removing stuff from nexus and adding it to paid WS, someone else will do and earn shekels on other peoples work. So to prevent it majority probably going to bend over.
    6. phantompally76
      phantompally76
      • member
      • 1,198 posts
      • 51 kudos
      Elta1, do you honestly believe that?

      Do you genuinely, from the bottom of your heart, believe those guys updated SkyUI JUST as a small, temporary cash grab with no intentions of getting rich by becoming the bottleneck that mod users will have to pay through in order to continue using mods in future? Have you not read their smug, arrogant comments regarding this? Are you THAT blind and complacent? Am I getting through to you at all???
    7. Elta1
      Elta1
      • premium
      • 203 posts
      • 7 kudos
      Yes, because the SkyUi team have proven to be fair and you you do not have an faith in them you must be blind. And the fact that you would turn away from the team that made Skyrim on PC a thing is just as sad. Look at their record. They have always been there and always been the main names in modding here and elsewhere. And if you are so quick as to throw that trust and faith away well that is your loss. The only issue I have is way Marrdox is handleing it.
    8. Longojing
      Longojing
      • member
      • 49 posts
      • 0 kudos
      people can't even aces those mods if they want to develop them. it simply doesn't work. In one word again like total biscuit said as well: logistical nightmare.
    9. Meracos
      Meracos
      • supporter
      • 18 posts
      • 1 kudos
      Interesting that phantom mentions SkyUI as a stumbling block for free mod advancement..
      Considering 5.0 it is already available on many torrents and pirate sites..
      I have 5.0. and its not even listed on the steam workshop yet..
      This whole exercise has only served to rekindle piracy..
      It is awe inspiring to behold how much every current steam workshop paid mod is available for free on pirate sites right now..

      So how does that stop us Phantom? eh?
      Eh comrade?
    10. silvershade56
      silvershade56
      • member
      • 176 posts
      • 0 kudos
      @Elta1
      new features wont be backwards compatible so if a new mod makes use of those new features then it would require the new skyui
  10. Mr. Dave
    Mr. Dave
    • supporter
    • 3,656 posts
    • 436 kudos
    "Some mod descriptions are buried underneath change logs, latest news, FAQs, information about the author's dog in the vets and so on and so forth. Sometimes it can be a real struggle just to find the freaking description of what the mod actually does."

    In regards to this, it's an ever growing trend to floodfill the description page with Reddit like spam. Screenshots, memes, all sorts of garbage that has no business being in the DESCRIPTION.
    I complained on one mod and was immediately attacked by white knight psychos having childish temper tantrums, so from now on any mod I see abusing the description section is getting reported instead. I suggest others do the same thing until this idiocy is stopped.