Thanks to juzu1234, PRieST47 and sheson for the latest screenshots and comments on the SSE version of this mod. This comment is pinned to make it clear that this mod, while achieving its goal, is not recommended because of massive performance impacts in general.
However, as stated by Sheson back in november 2020, the latest builds of xLODGen can now produce CORRECT occlusion data. I just tested it myself and I recommend you to generate a proper "Occlusion.esp" plugin based on your active mods, and load it last. Result: no more square holes in landscape AND proper occlusion data, meaning ALMOST NO PERFORMANCE IMPACT!!! Generating new occlusion for the Tamriel worldspace (only) at the highest detail (3) possible took about 12 minutes on my rig and works flawlessly.
Thanks to sheson and the xEdit/XLODGen team for their incredible amount of work. I don't think anything more could be achieved about the LOD topic...
I tried installing this mod to eliminate the squares of absent matter in bodies of water, but now I have this hideous glitch where the textures on rocks move all weird after the player moves or I pan the camera. This glitch is infuriating! I tried uninstalling the mod but the problem persists. What exactly does this mod do so I can reverse it!
It doesn't seem to work. In fact it got even worse (now even more patches of water are missing). I also made some screenshots: https://ibb.co/cFjwuT https://ibb.co/mDKkoo https://ibb.co/dRiBTo https://ibb.co/bt19ET
For reference I am playing Skyrim Legendary Edition. I use Enhanced Lightning FX, Climates of Tamriel V, W.A.T.E.R 2, Revenent ENB and Skyrim Distance Overhaul.
I can confirm this appears to work just fine, with occlusion culling = 1.5
I visited three problem spots where SoG gaps are an issue.
CoW itself, the walkway - No problems Shrine of Azura, looking out to see - No problems Mountains just above Skyborn alter- Again, No holes, gaps.
The only thing I did see, was from Azuras, I could faintly see the outline of one of the missing square grids far out to to sea. It was filled in, but just barely visible in outline.
Well done. Have you considered offering this to Sheeson? Maybe he can work it into Dyndolod somehow? Or get Shtagg here to host it on his stability fix page if hes agreeable. I couldn't run this mod here. Occlusion plane 'fixes' like this have caused my game to crash in the past for some reason. Skyrim optimization does the same thing, so this solution you came up with is just perfect for me. So nice to not have to look at those gaping holes AND keep occlusion culling at ultra.
I expect this to work equally well for SSE, as it has the exact same problem.
Thanks.
You could always try USLEEP, but there is a good chance you'd be told those gaps were the result of the wisdom of Bethesda, not to be questioned by mortals.
One thing, I had to put it at bottom of the load order, as most mods worldspace edits will revert the changes out. Either that, or edit any mods the add culling data back in.
Some examples, from my own load order
-Cutting Room floor -Real Shelter -Legacy of the Dragonborn -Relighting Skyrim
Would it be possible for you to make a version that only affects the Sea of Ghosts, so we have the benefit of not seeing gaps in the sea around Winterhold, and also have decent FPS inland?
Unfortunately, no. The problem is NOT in the sea of ghosts cells. The problem IS in the cells INLAND from where you can see the sea of ghosts cells. That's why this plugin has so many cells from the Skyrim worldspace with the TVDT record cleaned...
Then does it just need to affect those cells specifically? Like the only place I ever see big empty cells is the walkway between Winterhold and the College. If I had a version of this mod that affected just the cells that are visible from that specific spot would be great. Ugh what a complex problem.
Sad day, it looks as if SSE does NOTHING to fix the culling issue. Popped over to CoW, and @ ultra settings (1.5), exact same as Skyrim classic.
No change at all , at least from what I am seeing here.
Same advice for SSE, set your fsplit to .500. That will accomplish the same thing as the various fixes on offer does, but with no possible performance or stability hit.
Couple of things maybe worth mentioning about using this
1). If you are use enhanced camera mod, its default INI locks fnear, which, does two things. Skyrim pref wont do anything regardless if this not changed. The second is, I had bad z-fighting as a result of EC locking fsplit. I would have not have realized this if I had not stumbled across a comment over @ STEP forums(total accident too). Once I changed ECs INI and let Skyrim take over again, z-fighting decreased noticeably.
You need to change Fsplitmulti in EC ini to 0. 1 by default.
2) Even though DESC says, place as low as possible, it might be an idea to explicitly mention placing it at the bottom - period, for Dynodold users. Dyndolod will restore all the culling data this takes out.
One thing I would like to, if one were to generate an Dyndolod with his in the load order, would it exclude the culling data, or would still need to be placed at very bottom? Wont know till my next big install.
Correction, FNEAR. The post said it was fsplit..sigh.
Only an issue if you use that mod and have its INI setting its own values-overriding skyrim in places, AND excarcertabing z-fighting. Not an issue, or is less of one now that I got it figured out.
Ive never found fnear to have any noticeable effect on dealing with z-fighting anyhow. At least in my experience.
I understand what you talk about fsplitmulti, but i haven't this settings in EC's ini (1.4), i only have the one which play with fnear (I have checked in EC's archive, and i haven't remove it ^^). That's why I asking you which version you use, because i'm a little lost ^^
Yes, it is fnear, the post said it locked fsplit as well, course I cant find it now..owell.
I just a got a memory crash. I wonder if its this mod doing it? Im using your configs so thats not it. Crash Fix just reported I was out of memory. Going to run w/o it for a time, see if It happens again.
6 Oct 13:43:40 Skyrim has failed to allocate memory! Possibly running out of memory. Size / alignment of object being allocated was 89478613 / 0. Some things you can try:
Decs says there might be a performance hit, I wonder if I just found it....
It will be long to test it, but if I haven't problem i will certainly put it as an alternative to "fSplitDistanceMult fix" that you can found in my guide.
In fact, this fix could be useful only for users who use a fSplitDistanceMult superior to 0.5 (high and ultra settings, medium default is 0.75 so it is not a big gap, and low is 0.4).
But you're right, your method is certainly a better way, but it is an huge amount of work, if it don't hurt too much performance, it could be a solution for who have a powerful rig.
To put it very simplified, each material/texture of each shape on screen is a draw call. There is a threshold of when draw calls cause frames to drop significantly. The number mainly depends on the DirectX version, GPU/CPU. ENBs overlay profiler section shows the current draw calls.
When you complain about town mods destroying FPS, it is most likely due to draw calls and shadows.
LOD on the other hand has very few draw calls because textures are "batched" into a texture atlas, so many different objects are only one draw call, though they are still a few hundred. This mod removes culling of terrain/object/tree LOD. While it is OK for some view directions, for others it will simply mean a couple 1000 extra draw calls putting the total way over the draw call limit of DirectX 9 causing massive FPS drops. Especially if used in conjunction with improved LOD.
So after Sheson's light, for me, It seems this mod is more a proof of concept than a real solution. In this case, it will be useful to list area with this problem, and maybe add it to a cumulative patch or a patcher (or maybe in DynDOLOD XD).
PS: For the moment I have only one massive FPS drop near Dragon Bridge (I use bigger Dragon bridge), when i look at solitude's direction (I can see, bridge, hold, hills and solitude).
I was contemplating adding a feature to DynDOLOD about this record. For now am waiting to see what changes Skryrim SE might bring. FO4 uses a different system.
My rig : Core i7 3770K @4.00Ghz GTX970 x2 (i have tested with and without SLI) 24 Go RAM 128 Crucial (My OS is installed on an another SSD) Windows 7 Pro ENB/SKSE/Crash Fixe configured accordingly to my guide
I play in third person, so I use ultra setting except for terrain manager who are set like this to avoid stutters induce by tree lod : [TerrainManager] fTreeLoadDistance=40000 fBlockMaximumDistance=150000 fBlockLevel1Distance=40000 fBlockLevel0Distance=25000 fSplitDistanceMult=1.500 (I have made my test with 1.1 too)
Every glitch bound to occlusion culling vanishes, it is the purpose of this mod and it solves this problem flawlessly.
But I have heavy FPS drop in a lot of area that I don't have if I remove it (from 55 FPS to 15 FPS).
This mod could be perfect if it edit only cells who have a problem (like cells from where you can see the sea of ghosts cells), because in another area it is a ressource hog (especially when you are next big city or forest area).
So for me it is a nice proof of concept.
Anyways, thank you for your work and I hope it can be integrated to a solution like DynDOLOD or an another patcher.
I have set my fSplitDistanceMult to .5000 to deal with this issue. I found that to be a rather simple, and guaranteed fix for this problem. Question is, am I missing that much in terms of visual quality by dropping from 1.5 to .5? I know have strong enough card, to pretty much run anything I wish in skyrim (2560x1440 now, so, that is not an issue. But the only way, least till I saw this, is simply leaving fsplit at .5000 and not thinking about it any longer.
Sthaagg mentions it works, BUT he seems to be saying, he is getting a big performance drop over it. That the end result, at least for him?
This sounds interesting, of course, if it could integrated in Dyndolod, so much the better.
EDIT
To answer my own question, this definitely works. I set OC back to 1.5, and loaded it up, and works fine. If there is a performance hit, I must be way over the threshold for weak cards. Didn't notice a thing, at least in the vicinity of the CoW.
What I do have atm, is a nasty z-fighting problem (again). Ice flows , and far-distant mountains, the usual thing. Not sure if this fix and setting OC back to ultra is contributing in any way or not. Its not like I didn't have z-fighting before I tested this.
Are there other regions I can test this in for holes? The College\Sea of ghosts is only are I knew to that had this problem. If I could get some other areas to test be great.
About performance drop, it is certainly amplified by JK lite + towns which adds a lot of things and already hurt my FPS + LOD HD + 3D trees LOD, because it occurs only near of them (and it confirm what Sheson says about draw calls problem).
I tested a little after my post, but for me it's not worth the performance cost, it is totally subjective and i think it is bound to my own setup.
If i'm not mistaken, Z-fighting occurs only on Ultra, and a way to minimize it, is to raise fSplitDistanceMult and others [terrainmanager]'s settings (you've got a wiki page on step about that) and set fNearDistance to a value around 20.0000 (i use 23).
44 comments
Thanks to juzu1234, PRieST47 and sheson for the latest screenshots and comments on the SSE version of this mod.
This comment is pinned to make it clear that this mod, while achieving its goal, is not recommended because of massive performance impacts in general.
However, as stated by Sheson back in november 2020, the latest builds of xLODGen can now produce CORRECT occlusion data. I just tested it myself and I recommend you to generate a proper "Occlusion.esp" plugin based on your active mods, and load it last.
Result: no more square holes in landscape AND proper occlusion data, meaning ALMOST NO PERFORMANCE IMPACT!!! Generating new occlusion for the Tamriel worldspace (only) at the highest detail (3) possible took about 12 minutes on my rig and works flawlessly.
Thanks to sheson and the xEdit/XLODGen team for their incredible amount of work. I don't think anything more could be achieved about the LOD topic...
I also made some screenshots:
https://ibb.co/cFjwuT
https://ibb.co/mDKkoo
https://ibb.co/dRiBTo
https://ibb.co/bt19ET
For reference I am playing Skyrim Legendary Edition.
I use Enhanced Lightning FX, Climates of Tamriel V, W.A.T.E.R 2, Revenent ENB and Skyrim Distance Overhaul.
Cuz once you notice it,...you simply CANNOT unsee it.
edit: i made an even lighter version that only removes the tvdt data from winterhold dock up to Fort Kastav. You can download it here >
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/67czvx/how_do_i_fix_these_2_sea_water_lod_squares_near/
I visited three problem spots where SoG gaps are an issue.
CoW itself, the walkway - No problems
Shrine of Azura, looking out to see - No problems
Mountains just above Skyborn alter- Again, No holes, gaps.
The only thing I did see, was from Azuras, I could faintly see the outline of one of the missing square grids far out to to sea. It was filled in, but just barely visible in outline.
Well done. Have you considered offering this to Sheeson? Maybe he can work it into Dyndolod somehow? Or get Shtagg here to host it on his stability fix page if hes agreeable. I couldn't run this mod here. Occlusion plane 'fixes' like this have caused my game to crash in the past for some reason. Skyrim optimization does the same thing, so this solution you came up with is just perfect for me. So nice to not have to look at those gaping holes AND keep occlusion culling at ultra.
I expect this to work equally well for SSE, as it has the exact same problem.
Thanks.
You could always try USLEEP, but there is a good chance you'd be told those gaps were the result of the wisdom of Bethesda, not to be questioned by mortals.
One thing, I had to put it at bottom of the load order, as most mods worldspace edits will revert the changes out. Either that, or edit any mods the add culling data back in.
Some examples, from my own load order
-Cutting Room floor
-Real Shelter
-Legacy of the Dragonborn
-Relighting Skyrim
No change at all , at least from what I am seeing here.
Same advice for SSE, set your fsplit to .500. That will accomplish the same thing as the various fixes on offer does, but with no possible performance or stability hit.
1). If you are use enhanced camera mod, its default INI locks fnear, which, does two things. Skyrim pref wont do anything regardless if this not changed. The second is, I had bad z-fighting as a result of EC locking fsplit. I would have not have realized this if I had not stumbled across a comment over @ STEP forums(total accident too). Once I changed ECs INI and let Skyrim take over again, z-fighting decreased noticeably.
You need to change Fsplitmulti in EC ini to 0. 1 by default.
2) Even though DESC says, place as low as possible, it might be an idea to explicitly mention placing it at the bottom - period, for Dynodold users. Dyndolod will restore all the culling data this takes out.
One thing I would like to, if one were to generate an Dyndolod with his in the load order, would it exclude the culling data, or would still need to be placed at very bottom? Wont know till my next big install.
Which version of Ehanced Camera did you use ?
Only an issue if you use that mod and have its INI setting its own values-overriding skyrim in places, AND excarcertabing z-fighting. Not an issue, or is less of one now that I got it figured out.
Ive never found fnear to have any noticeable effect on dealing with z-fighting anyhow. At least in my experience.
I just a got a memory crash. I wonder if its this mod doing it? Im using your configs so thats not it. Crash Fix just reported I was out of memory. Going to run w/o it for a time, see if It happens again.
6 Oct 13:43:40 Skyrim has failed to allocate memory! Possibly running out of memory. Size / alignment of object being allocated was 89478613 / 0. Some things you can try:
Decs says there might be a performance hit, I wonder if I just found it....
It will affect draw calls and cause bad FPS drops, for example when looking inland from the coasts.
ATM a better "fix" would be to only remove the data from some select cells with really bad visual problems.
But you're right, your method is certainly a better way, but it is an huge amount of work, if it don't hurt too much performance, it could be a solution for who have a powerful rig.
What do you mean by "draw calls" ?
When you complain about town mods destroying FPS, it is most likely due to draw calls and shadows.
LOD on the other hand has very few draw calls because textures are "batched" into a texture atlas, so many different objects are only one draw call, though they are still a few hundred. This mod removes culling of terrain/object/tree LOD. While it is OK for some view directions, for others it will simply mean a couple 1000 extra draw calls putting the total way over the draw call limit of DirectX 9 causing massive FPS drops. Especially if used in conjunction with improved LOD.
So after Sheson's light, for me, It seems this mod is more a proof of concept than a real solution.
In this case, it will be useful to list area with this problem, and maybe add it to a cumulative patch or a patcher (or maybe in DynDOLOD XD).
PS: For the moment I have only one massive FPS drop near Dragon Bridge (I use bigger Dragon bridge), when i look at solitude's direction (I can see, bridge, hold, hills and solitude).
My rig :
Core i7 3770K @4.00Ghz
GTX970 x2 (i have tested with and without SLI)
24 Go RAM
128 Crucial (My OS is installed on an another SSD)
Windows 7 Pro
ENB/SKSE/Crash Fixe configured accordingly to my guide
I play in third person, so I use ultra setting except for terrain manager who are set like this to avoid stutters induce by tree lod :
[TerrainManager]
fTreeLoadDistance=40000
fBlockMaximumDistance=150000
fBlockLevel1Distance=40000
fBlockLevel0Distance=25000
fSplitDistanceMult=1.500 (I have made my test with 1.1 too)
Every glitch bound to occlusion culling vanishes, it is the purpose of this mod and it solves this problem flawlessly.
But I have heavy FPS drop in a lot of area that I don't have if I remove it (from 55 FPS to 15 FPS).
This mod could be perfect if it edit only cells who have a problem (like cells from where you can see the sea of ghosts cells), because in another area it is a ressource hog (especially when you are next big city or forest area).
So for me it is a nice proof of concept.
Anyways, thank you for your work and I hope it can be integrated to a solution like DynDOLOD or an another patcher.
Sthaagg mentions it works, BUT he seems to be saying, he is getting a big performance drop over it. That the end result, at least for him?
This sounds interesting, of course, if it could integrated in Dyndolod, so much the better.
EDIT
To answer my own question, this definitely works. I set OC back to 1.5, and loaded it up, and works fine. If there is a performance hit, I must be way over the threshold for weak cards. Didn't notice a thing, at least in the vicinity of the CoW.
What I do have atm, is a nasty z-fighting problem (again). Ice flows , and far-distant mountains, the usual thing. Not sure if this fix and setting OC back to ultra is contributing in any way or not. Its not like I didn't have z-fighting before I tested this.
Are there other regions I can test this in for holes? The College\Sea of ghosts is only are I knew to that had this problem. If I could get some other areas to test be great.
Thanks.
About performance drop, it is certainly amplified by JK lite + towns which adds a lot of things and already hurt my FPS + LOD HD + 3D trees LOD, because it occurs only near of them (and it confirm what Sheson says about draw calls problem).
I tested a little after my post, but for me it's not worth the performance cost, it is totally subjective and i think it is bound to my own setup.
If i'm not mistaken, Z-fighting occurs only on Ultra, and a way to minimize it, is to raise fSplitDistanceMult and others [terrainmanager]'s settings (you've got a wiki page on step about that) and set fNearDistance to a value around 20.0000 (i use 23).