I realize this mod has its drawbacks. People complaining about it shouldn't use it. I don't blame them; it's about personal choice.
I understand that in many cases having gold lying on a counter could be perfectly lore friendly (i.e. having a few coins on a night stand), but I'm willing to make this sacrifice to add a bit more challenge to the game.
Also, to the guy who said people storing their coins in these crypts is realistic? Really, so an innkeeper is going to bust open a thousand-year old Draugr, skeever, bandit-infested crypt full of monsters to hide 8 gold on the floor. RIGHT.
NOT just a few pieces. The "authorities" Usually monks/Jarls, would tell the poor indigent peasant going into a crypt or the "hall of the dead" would get them killed by monsters. of course as you can see there ARE traps to help keep that myth alive in the minds of peasants! In an olden time many people were buried with some worldly gold as it was thought it would ease their afterlife in Valhalla. Hence the reason for "looting" the tombs in the first place! "stealing" the coin purse from farmers, innkeepers, shopkeepers, usually gets you a jail term! Thats why its called "stealing"! I have better things to do than to rot in jail! This just lessens the reason to go "adventuring". But you are right about one thing...if you don't like it, dont download it!
You're talking about medieval vikings, where there weren't *actually* monsters and undead. They were just a myth.
I am talking about Nordic crypts in Skyrim, where any shmuck who decides to "hide" his sack of 14 gold deep within an unexplored crypt full of draugr and other unspeakable horrors wouldn't even make it past the first room without being torn apart, let alone the 4th level (bypassing about a dozen traps, locks, zombies, rats, feral beasts, stench, rot, disease, etc etc), in order to hide his small bag of 14 gold... on a random table, in plain view of anyone else who happens to pass by. It is utterly ridiculous to imagine that this is the case, sorry, no offense.
I mean, really. You're telling me someone is going to risk life and limb in a dank, disgusting crypt full of undead to "hide" 14 gold in a bag, on the counter, in plain site of any tomb robbers? If I were a citizen of Skyrim and for some stupid reason I thought this was a good idea, I would (1) at least tuck it away in a corner; (2) put much more than 8-24 gold in the bag in the first place (I just had to risk my life about 27 times getting past all the zombies, remember? For a handful of gold?) and (3) probably put it in a locked chest with other valuables, I dunno say somewhere that isn't forcing me to risk my life dozens of times every time I decide to go look for it.
No matter what "RL" lore you throw my way you cannot possibly convince me that all this gold lying around in caves, dungeons etc is in any way even remotely realistic. With all due respect, you're talking crazy.
I realize that it removes a bit of fun from breaking and entering in towns, but like I said, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for a bit more realism and challenge.
And what happens when a coin purse is a quest objective in someone else's mod and a user of this mod doesn't know it is a coin purse. What's going to happen then? I know exactly what will happen, that user will go to the quest mod comments and tell them the quest is broken and some poor mod author gets to spend a couple hours trying to figure out why until someone mentions it is a coin purse and the user then realizes it is this mod that broke the quest. Yes your mod will cause problems for other authors and I just outlined one way it could. Is that alright for all mod authors?
I made a suggestion earlier that would do what you want and it wont cause any other mod author any grief. Simply disable the gold and coin purses that are in locations where they do not belong. Right click on the item in the list and select "Use Info" and go down the list and disable the items in the locations you think they shouldn't be in. That allows the coin purse and coin to be used by all mod authors still and wont break a quest unless the mod author used a vanilla placed item which isn't very mart.
Removing the .nif on these items is like cracking open a walnut with a 5lb sledge and a full swing. Yeah you cracked it open but you also destroyed it. In this case destroyed the walnut someone else was going to use in their brownies. And is questionably allowed here because it will break other peoples mods intentionally and without any reason since you now know how it will break them and what would be the proper way for making your mod.
Im starting to agree with Dahveed on People with their Lore Obsesions and How things should be done, NOBODY told you to Download the Mod.
A Mod being Uploaded to the Nexus DOESENT hurt the next guy or their Game. You dont like it, let go. You want to say something about the Mod for Suggestive Criticism, do it.
Im so Sick of Lore Fanatics that Complains about the Tiniest of things, but Big Chest Naked Anime Girls or Pony Creatures seems all fine and dandy to everyone.
This is a Mod by Dahveed who Uploaded it for the Community and NOT for the Lore Fanatic that is so scared he believes the Mod is going to Magically worm itself into their Game.
People are Free to do what they want with THEIR OWN GAME, the Mods they Upload Doesent effect you or your Game.
Stop trying to Rule over Modders as if you wrote the TES Series. Theres No Law or Forum Rules or where Todd Howard Stated anywhere that heres the Creation Kit and Just make Lore Mods because I Order It.
Dahveed, he's not being a "contrarian douche" and to be blunt, it's not your place to start hurling insults, or giving ultimatums to people. He's entirely right in pointing out that your method can cause problems with other mods, because of the inelegant approach to the "problem"(I don't mean that in an insulting manner. I'm just not sure what other word I could use to describe the situation of wanting the gold pieces gone besides "problem".) that you used.
Edit: Just to make my point clear, I'm not trying to jump down your throat here, though I do think calling the guy a "douche" was a bit much.
Nobody likes when someone criticizes their stuff; I get that. At the same time, there are positive and negative ways to take criticism. Getting upset and insulting someone because you feel insulted is a negative way to react to criticism. Why stress yourself over that, even in the smallest way, when you could just ignore him, or if you truly felt that he stepped over the line, report his post and let a moderator take any action they deem necessary?
The other thing you might consider is that even if his way of voicing his opinion wasn't super friendly, there was still a point to consider, in that your method could in fact create incompatibilities with other mods, when it doesn't need to. Deleting the mesh file still leaves the reference to the object in the game, as far as I know; it just makes it invisible and unable to be interacted with. Completely removing the offending objects would if nothing else avoid leaving any unused references to objects floating about in the game world, and in the best case, it means less chances of incompatibilities with other mods.
Edit #2: My girlfriend actually just brought up another point that I really do hope you consider. What happens if a player either accidentally or purposely drops gold while playing? Without a mesh to reference, that gold disappears. Except it doesn't, because Skyrim will still register the object as having been dropped at the player's position. Even if this happens just a few times, it can end up polluting an area with "phantom" objects that, while not taking up space that can be seen, still take up space in the eyes of the game.
I can totally understand why you might take this approach to the task of making there be less gold lying all over the place, but your method really can have a lot of unforseen consequences for anyone that uses it,(Including you! D: ) and as a fellow fan of Skyrim and part-time modder, I sincerely urge you to reconsider this method, for the sake of both your own game's stability, and that of other people that use your mod.
I might of overreacted, sorry. I'm just fed up with arguing. It's a simple mod which fulfills a simple purpose. People worried about the "what ifs" shouldn't DL it, simple as that.
I'm tired of defending myself. It has worked fine for me and has done exactly what I want it to. I thought I'd share it with the community so they might also use this simple but effective tweak.
I didn't expect so many people so complain so loudly about something so simple.
Dahveed wrote: I realize this mod has its drawbacks. People complaining about it shouldn't use it. I don't blame them; it's about personal choice.
I understand that in many cases having gold lying on a counter could be perfectly lore friendly (i.e. having a few coins on a night stand), but I'm willing to make this sacrifice to add a bit more challenge to the game.
Also, to the guy who said people storing their coins in these crypts is realistic? Really, so an innkeeper is going to bust open a thousand-year old Draugr, skeever, bandit-infested crypt full of monsters to hide 8 gold on the floor. RIGHT.
georgejbps wrote: NOT just a few pieces. The "authorities" Usually monks/Jarls, would tell the poor indigent peasant going into a crypt or the "hall of the dead" would get them killed by monsters. of course as you can see there ARE traps to help keep that myth alive in the minds of peasants! In an olden time many people were buried with some worldly gold as it was thought it would ease their afterlife in Valhalla. Hence the reason for "looting" the tombs in the first place! "stealing" the coin purse from farmers, innkeepers, shopkeepers, usually gets you a jail term! Thats why its called "stealing"! I have better things to do than to rot in jail! This just lessens the reason to go "adventuring". But you are right about one thing...if you don't like it, dont download it!
Dahveed wrote: You're talking about medieval vikings, where there weren't *actually* monsters and undead. They were just a myth.
I am talking about Nordic crypts in Skyrim, where any shmuck who decides to "hide" his sack of 14 gold deep within an unexplored crypt full of draugr and other unspeakable horrors wouldn't even make it past the first room without being torn apart, let alone the 4th level (bypassing about a dozen traps, locks, zombies, rats, feral beasts, stench, rot, disease, etc etc), in order to hide his small bag of 14 gold... on a random table, in plain view of anyone else who happens to pass by. It is utterly ridiculous to imagine that this is the case, sorry, no offense.
I mean, really. You're telling me someone is going to risk life and limb in a dank, disgusting crypt full of undead to "hide" 14 gold in a bag, on the counter, in plain site of any tomb robbers? If I were a citizen of Skyrim and for some stupid reason I thought this was a good idea, I would (1) at least tuck it away in a corner; (2) put much more than 8-24 gold in the bag in the first place (I just had to risk my life about 27 times getting past all the zombies, remember? For a handful of gold?) and (3) probably put it in a locked chest with other valuables, I dunno say somewhere that isn't forcing me to risk my life dozens of times every time I decide to go look for it.
No matter what "RL" lore you throw my way you cannot possibly convince me that all this gold lying around in caves, dungeons etc is in any way even remotely realistic. With all due respect, you're talking crazy.
I realize that it removes a bit of fun from breaking and entering in towns, but like I said, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for a bit more realism and challenge.
jet4571 wrote: And what happens when a coin purse is a quest objective in someone else's mod and a user of this mod doesn't know it is a coin purse. What's going to happen then? I know exactly what will happen, that user will go to the quest mod comments and tell them the quest is broken and some poor mod author gets to spend a couple hours trying to figure out why until someone mentions it is a coin purse and the user then realizes it is this mod that broke the quest. Yes your mod will cause problems for other authors and I just outlined one way it could. Is that alright for all mod authors?
I made a suggestion earlier that would do what you want and it wont cause any other mod author any grief. Simply disable the gold and coin purses that are in locations where they do not belong. Right click on the item in the list and select "Use Info" and go down the list and disable the items in the locations you think they shouldn't be in. That allows the coin purse and coin to be used by all mod authors still and wont break a quest unless the mod author used a vanilla placed item which isn't very mart.
Removing the .nif on these items is like cracking open a walnut with a 5lb sledge and a full swing. Yeah you cracked it open but you also destroyed it. In this case destroyed the walnut someone else was going to use in their brownies. And is questionably allowed here because it will break other peoples mods intentionally and without any reason since you now know how it will break them and what would be the proper way for making your mod.
Dahveed wrote: Okay, now you're just being a contrarian douche. If you don't like my mod, don't download it and get lost. Last warning.
daventry wrote: Im starting to agree with Dahveed on People with their Lore Obsesions and How things should be done, NOBODY told you to Download the Mod.
A Mod being Uploaded to the Nexus DOESENT hurt the next guy or their Game. You dont like it, let go. You want to say something about the Mod for Suggestive Criticism, do it.
Im so Sick of Lore Fanatics that Complains about the Tiniest of things, but Big Chest Naked Anime Girls or Pony Creatures seems all fine and dandy to everyone.
This is a Mod by Dahveed who Uploaded it for the Community and NOT for the Lore Fanatic that is so scared he believes the Mod is going to Magically worm itself into their Game.
People are Free to do what they want with THEIR OWN GAME, the Mods they Upload Doesent effect you or your Game.
Stop trying to Rule over Modders as if you wrote the TES Series. Theres No Law or Forum Rules or where Todd Howard Stated anywhere that heres the Creation Kit and Just make Lore Mods because I Order It.
FlyingHigh10000000 wrote: Dahveed, he's not being a "contrarian douche" and to be blunt, it's not your place to start hurling insults, or giving ultimatums to people. He's entirely right in pointing out that your method can cause problems with other mods, because of the inelegant approach to the "problem"(I don't mean that in an insulting manner. I'm just not sure what other word I could use to describe the situation of wanting the gold pieces gone besides "problem".) that you used.
Edit: Just to make my point clear, I'm not trying to jump down your throat here, though I do think calling the guy a "douche" was a bit much.
Nobody likes when someone criticizes their stuff; I get that. At the same time, there are positive and negative ways to take criticism. Getting upset and insulting someone because you feel insulted is a negative way to react to criticism. Why stress yourself over that, even in the smallest way, when you could just ignore him, or if you truly felt that he stepped over the line, report his post and let a moderator take any action they deem necessary?
The other thing you might consider is that even if his way of voicing his opinion wasn't super friendly, there was still a point to consider, in that your method could in fact create incompatibilities with other mods, when it doesn't need to. Deleting the mesh file still leaves the reference to the object in the game, as far as I know; it just makes it invisible and unable to be interacted with. Completely removing the offending objects would if nothing else avoid leaving any unused references to objects floating about in the game world, and in the best case, it means less chances of incompatibilities with other mods.
Edit #2: My girlfriend actually just brought up another point that I really do hope you consider. What happens if a player either accidentally or purposely drops gold while playing? Without a mesh to reference, that gold disappears. Except it doesn't, because Skyrim will still register the object as having been dropped at the player's position. Even if this happens just a few times, it can end up polluting an area with "phantom" objects that, while not taking up space that can be seen, still take up space in the eyes of the game.
I can totally understand why you might take this approach to the task of making there be less gold lying all over the place, but your method really can have a lot of unforseen consequences for anyone that uses it,(Including you! D: ) and as a fellow fan of Skyrim and part-time modder, I sincerely urge you to reconsider this method, for the sake of both your own game's stability, and that of other people that use your mod.
daventry wrote: Cant some Scripts be changed or make a New Coin Mesh that looks like Gold Coins so it sticks to those places like static, problem solved i think
Dahveed wrote: I might of overreacted, sorry. I'm just fed up with arguing. It's a simple mod which fulfills a simple purpose. People worried about the "what ifs" shouldn't DL it, simple as that.
I'm tired of defending myself. It has worked fine for me and has done exactly what I want it to. I thought I'd share it with the community so they might also use this simple but effective tweak.
I didn't expect so many people so complain so loudly about something so simple.
I'm not even trying to complain about it. I'm trying to point out that the mod has serious potential to cause some serious problems later on in the game for anyone that uses it. You said that you use the mod, so I'm trying to help you, too. Deleting the mesh still leaves loose records of that gold that you can't see or touch out in the game world, and that really can cause problems later on. I mean, if you're okay with potential save-corrupting objects in crypts and such, okay. At least leave a warning on the description, though, and if you do run into any problems, consider this mod before any others, especially if you run into problems in dungeons or bandit lairs.
Spoiler:
Show
In response to post #29679500. #29679950 is also a reply to the same post.
Spoiler:
Show
jet4571 wrote: What a way to break other mods that might have a stash of loot in a vault and coins and coin purses everywhere in said vault.
Then there's the coin purses behind counters for thief characters. Those belong there.
A couple shiny clinky coins on someone's nightstand? Yep they belong there as well.
I like the idea of not just finding coins in some bandits cave or a Nordic ruin being all out of place but removing the model is a hamfisted way of going about it. Use the "Use info" feature the CK has and see where they are and if it's an unlikely location when you look then disable the reference instead and leave the ones in places one would expect some coins or a coin purse where it lays. You don't ruin someone's hard work they put into a vault and thieves can try to snatch the coin purse behind the counter, and that poor Nord farmer still has his coins where he left them before bed. It will take time and patience to do but the end result would be superior.
adammcbane wrote: This^^
Removing it from specific locations is one thing, this on the other hand can end up causing issues. Several mods also actually do address gold issues where these loose coins are not that big a deal. In real life it is very possible to find money laying around it's actually very common to have money sitting around as people empty their pockets upon entering their home. Nordic ruins my problem is the fact the currency is current it should be a nordic currency. In my game 20 gold coins can't even pay for cheese.
I think your definition of 'break' is different to the general game industry at large. It doesn't stop or block anything in tems of play. It removes some money, but honestly that is not game breaking. It just makes it slightly harder to gain money.
If you get your money from a nightstand or table, you are not going to get rich. Getting rich in these games usually means leveling up and killing high-level enemies and looting chests. So, in effect, this mod really has no effect at all, because the vast majority of money is not lying on tables. Why does armour and weapons get a pass too? No idea. Now a blacksmith would lock his weapons away in my opinion, and he wouldn't leave bars stacked up for me to easily steal too. Those are worth more than any random splash of gold coins.
Deleting a mesh like that is poor modding practice, and there's a reason the most well-known mods don't do it. It creates incompatibilities, and leaves uncollected "garbage" in the world, in the form of coins and purses that don't have meshes, but still exist in the game world. I hate using the word, but it's very amateurish, and speaks of a modder's lack of understanding of how Skyrim works, and their lack of care for potential incompatibilities. It's the modding equivalent of sweeping something under a rug, instead of properly disposing of it. This practice should absolutely not be encouraged, and if we really want modding to get better, it shouldn't be allowed at all.
This is actually a rather "poor" method of doing this (for lack of a better term).
It's going to cause problems, and will stop people from using your mod if they decide it is the cause of those problems (which it will be). Find a better solution.
You don't know as much as you think you do about modding. You're either unaware of this, or trying to sound like you know more than you do.
If you knew as much as you are letting on, you'd know that I am obviously not deleting any meshes or objects from anyone's game, and there is literally a ZERO percent chance that I will ever corrupt anyone's save game. (Seriously this shows how little you know about modding if you think this).
Read the description again, or at least open up my mod and see what it actually does (you clearly do not know what my mod actually does), and do more research before claiming that my mod will corrupt people's saves (this is a laughable accusation).
It's hard to be respectful of someone who comes across as so arrogant, accuses me of breaking things, and clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
"How it does this: I simply edited the base objects "Gold" and "Coin Purse" in the Creation kit so that they no longer reference a mesh. This effectively removes them from sight and prevents the player from interacting with them in the game. When you play, it's as though they aren't there."
Yes, that makes the two objects not visible or able to be interacted with by the player. However, it does not actually remove them from the game world. It's messy, and it conflicts with any other mod that messes with those two objects. The conflict is in itself not a bad thing. Plenty of mods conflict with each other. Leaving objects in the world by just having them not reference a mesh, though, really isn't the cleanest way to remove them, and can definitely cause problems. Maybe not right away, and heck, you might even be able to get through a full playthrough without running into any problems from it. But it's really, truly not the way that anyone should be thinking is acceptable when it comes to problem-solving when modding.
The proper solution is, as someone else suggested, pulling up the two items in question, and just removing them from the cells where they appear as loose items. It accomplishes the same thing, and while it does edit a lot more things, any conflicts will be incredibly easy to resolve by just putting one mod or the other ahead in the load order. With the more clean method of removing the loose gold, if some other mod edits a dungeon cell with gold lying around, a user can put that other mod after yours in the load order, and just have the gold still lying around, but without anything going bad. With the method you're currently using, since the actual cell isn't being touched but the object is, any edits to the cell work just fine, except now the gold that was laying about in the dungeon is floating around with no mesh, according to the game. It's not visible, and the player cannot touch it, but the game still thinks it's there.
That's the part you don't seem to get about what I'm telling you here. Your mod sounds like a good idea, but its execution has one major flaw, in that "Gold" and "Coin Purse" are still scattered all over the game world in the eyes of the engine itself. Since you didn't remove their records from every cell where they're supposed to be, those objects are most definitely still present in some form. In a form that absolutely can cause conflicts, and might very well do just that, depending on the mods someone is running. Even if it doesn't cause problems, it's still a rather messy solution, and you'd be doing yourself a favor as a modder to dig a bit deeper into the Creation Kit and properly remove the objects. It's more time-consuming, sure. But that's often the best way to get something done cleanly when modding Skyrim.
I can see that I'm not likely to convince you, though. I'll lay off, and hope that your mod doesn't cause any problems in anyone's saves, be it yours or another user's. I do hope that you at least consider my advice, especially if any problems with loose objects in cells arise later.
Nice backpedaling. You told me I'm going to "corrupt" people's saves. That is clearly impossible.
Okay so maybe one user one day, after 400 hours of playing with my mod, come across that one special quest from that one special mod that requires him to specifically loot one piece of gold off of a counter. So what? Unload my mod, loot the damn gold, then load it back up again and have a nice day.
It is literally impossible for my mod to "break" anything, since any other mod that references (for some strange reason????) a piece of gold lying on the counter will still work, because the gold is still in the game. (This happens to be TES5Edit's strategy when cleaning mods in some respects; "undeleting" references puts them back in the game world, invisible to the player, so that other mods referencing those objects won't break.)
I'll make you a deal: if you can play this mod with 200 other mods which all tinker with gold and the economy and manage to find something my mod "breaks" I will personally donate 100 dollars to your paypal account.
Thanks for the mod, but you do me the link of one of those you mentioned poverty mod please? I find none and wanted to make a fortune stealing from here to there.
What a way to break other mods that might have a stash of loot in a vault and coins and coin purses everywhere in said vault.
Then there's the coin purses behind counters for thief characters. Those belong there.
A couple shiny clinky coins on someone's nightstand? Yep they belong there as well.
I like the idea of not just finding coins in some bandits cave or a Nordic ruin being all out of place but removing the model is a hamfisted way of going about it. Use the "Use info" feature the CK has and see where they are and if it's an unlikely location when you look then disable the reference instead and leave the ones in places one would expect some coins or a coin purse where it lays. You don't ruin someone's hard work they put into a vault and thieves can try to snatch the coin purse behind the counter, and that poor Nord farmer still has his coins where he left them before bed. It will take time and patience to do but the end result would be superior.
Removing it from specific locations is one thing, this on the other hand can end up causing issues. Several mods also actually do address gold issues where these loose coins are not that big a deal. In real life it is very possible to find money laying around it's actually very common to have money sitting around as people empty their pockets upon entering their home. Nordic ruins my problem is the fact the currency is current it should be a nordic currency. In my game 20 gold coins can't even pay for cheese.
I think your definition of 'break' is different to the general game industry at large. It doesn't stop or block anything in tems of play. It removes some money, but honestly that is not game breaking. It just makes it slightly harder to gain money.
If you get your money from a nightstand or table, you are not going to get rich. Getting rich in these games usually means leveling up and killing high-level enemies and looting chests. So, in effect, this mod really has no effect at all, because the vast majority of money is not lying on tables. Why does armour and weapons get a pass too? No idea. Now a blacksmith would lock his weapons away in my opinion, and he wouldn't leave bars stacked up for me to easily steal too. Those are worth more than any random splash of gold coins.
Sparrow, i see your point, but we got mods for both gold in chests and loot. Disaprity and gold adjustment, there is even a mod for lowering gold for simple fetch quests. Also love ruffled feather and i run it in my game through STEP mode.
i have over 500k gold by only selling stuff to vendors, by collecting gold from everywhere you won't get big numbers, i like your idea but is not really necessary
It's one small step in the right direction. I suggest you use this in conjunction with other "poverty" style mods, as I do. Furthermore, I use mods like SkyTweak to tweak the buy/sell values of looted items. My thief character has a very hard time paying for a single level of training with the setup I have.
Gold adjustment and disparity to complete the set. Also there is another mod for fixing quest reward gold so you dont get 500 gold for fetching something, just forgot its name.
I like the idea of this, it could make the game much harder as you would no longer have the money for everything.
I'd say take this along further, perhaps with reworks to the skill system to at least make gaining points slower, so you can't get around buying it by making it yourself. Eorlund Grey-Mane honed his craft his entire life to work the Sky-Forge, and you can master the same craft in a matter of days in gameplay.
There's also the deal that there isn't enough pickings for thief characters, and that scores aren't a renewable resource, unless the items in homes respawn and I just don't check again after I rob them.
Clutter like silverwear also isn't valuable enough to make a real profit off. I'd say take this small rework further to create a true wealth/thievery mod.
Are you using a plugin? This could be done with a blank nif. There's one called 'dummy.nif' in the 'Skyrim - Meshes.bsa' if you extract it. Just rename it to any object you want gone and place it in the correct directory. Also, in Nifskope, if you expand an icon under 'BSX' and untick the collision flag; it should make it so you can see it, but not take it. It's rather easy even if you are new to the program.
I don't think it would matter if they fell through the floor, but if so, another solution would be to add an alpha property to the mesh, then make the diffuse texture's alpha channel 100% transparent so it's invisible.
You'd still be able to pick them up, but if you can't see them I doubt that would happen often. It's hard enough to pick them up even when you *can* see them.
No the collision controls the havock system. If you shut the collision off it will stay right where it is and cannot be picked up or moved.
But that creates a new issue and that makes it incompatible with any mod that changes the location. Take a coin purse sitting on a table in a farmhouse, if that was made static without collision and someone rearranged that house and their mod is higher in the load order then this mod you will have a coinpurse in the wrong spot and the player cant pick it up or move it.
Now who is going to get asked why they coinpurse cant be picked up? The mod author who rearranged the farmhouse. So shutting off the collision not only will create a problem but other mod authors who have no idea about this mod will spend hours trying to figure out the problem. Soooo. with that said intentionally shutting of collision for objects that are in hundreds of locations is not allowed on the Nexus because it breaks the game. Not a CTD break but if you cannot pick something up anymore and it can cause other mods issues like stupid floating coinpurses it still breaks the game.
His removing the .nif doesn't break the game so it is allowed even if it is the wrong way of doing this because with this mod installed nobody can use those items for decoration in their own mod if this is used and that's just not right.
If someone moves a havok object and disabled the havok, that would cause issues. From a fresh game I would imagine no problems unless you loaded your gane with the object before the physics were removed. If you play from a vanilla state it should work perfectly. That was a second suggestion by the way, my first was to get rid of it without the need for plugins. That is a better option. Obviously though the authour isn't interested.
Edit: Adding alpha wiill do nothing, it can still be taken as you say dupre. That is also a bad practice as the object still renders. You are much better with a blank nif.
I thought the point of this post was to make the coins visible, but prevent the player from picking them up. Anyway, if they don't need to be seen, a blank nif would probably do the trick.
Thats actually one of the first problems broken in Skyrim: outside of the obscenely rich and nobility, few other people owned anything, and especially not land. And yes, those two classes really did stick their loot in guarded areas (dungeons and vaults). Crypts having riches is entirely true; only very recently in human development did we finally stop burying dead people with all their loot; Egypt may be most famous, but most cultures did it, including Celts and Norse. So, yeah. Inn keeper in the time period represented wouldnt have owned the place anyway, but been paying to a lord who did. And the lord would have been keeping it somewhere. **end history/start criticism**
There is a VERY legitimate concern raised, that the mod author hasnt addressed, of how this will bork Skyrim that has gold there on purpose. I would like to see an explanation of that before I consider DLing. Because a mod is junk if it borks a quest line or locks out a site. You have a fine idea, but does it work in practice, or just set more bug-f^ckery in Skyrim's already BAF (buggy as F^*K) system?
Another legitimate concern raised questions how compatible your mod is with anything else. You should give a list of mods you use or recommend, so we users have an idea of what to expect and how to incorporate.
This is meant as friendly constructive criticism. I hope you take it as such, and add the info. Good Luck, and happy gaming.
42 comments
I understand that in many cases having gold lying on a counter could be perfectly lore friendly (i.e. having a few coins on a night stand), but I'm willing to make this sacrifice to add a bit more challenge to the game.
Also, to the guy who said people storing their coins in these crypts is realistic? Really, so an innkeeper is going to bust open a thousand-year old Draugr, skeever, bandit-infested crypt full of monsters to hide 8 gold on the floor. RIGHT.
I am talking about Nordic crypts in Skyrim, where any shmuck who decides to "hide" his sack of 14 gold deep within an unexplored crypt full of draugr and other unspeakable horrors wouldn't even make it past the first room without being torn apart, let alone the 4th level (bypassing about a dozen traps, locks, zombies, rats, feral beasts, stench, rot, disease, etc etc), in order to hide his small bag of 14 gold... on a random table, in plain view of anyone else who happens to pass by. It is utterly ridiculous to imagine that this is the case, sorry, no offense.
I mean, really. You're telling me someone is going to risk life and limb in a dank, disgusting crypt full of undead to "hide" 14 gold in a bag, on the counter, in plain site of any tomb robbers? If I were a citizen of Skyrim and for some stupid reason I thought this was a good idea, I would (1) at least tuck it away in a corner; (2) put much more than 8-24 gold in the bag in the first place (I just had to risk my life about 27 times getting past all the zombies, remember? For a handful of gold?) and (3) probably put it in a locked chest with other valuables, I dunno say somewhere that isn't forcing me to risk my life dozens of times every time I decide to go look for it.
No matter what "RL" lore you throw my way you cannot possibly convince me that all this gold lying around in caves, dungeons etc is in any way even remotely realistic. With all due respect, you're talking crazy.
I realize that it removes a bit of fun from breaking and entering in towns, but like I said, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for a bit more realism and challenge.
I made a suggestion earlier that would do what you want and it wont cause any other mod author any grief. Simply disable the gold and coin purses that are in locations where they do not belong. Right click on the item in the list and select "Use Info" and go down the list and disable the items in the locations you think they shouldn't be in. That allows the coin purse and coin to be used by all mod authors still and wont break a quest unless the mod author used a vanilla placed item which isn't very mart.
Removing the .nif on these items is like cracking open a walnut with a 5lb sledge and a full swing. Yeah you cracked it open but you also destroyed it. In this case destroyed the walnut someone else was going to use in their brownies. And is questionably allowed here because it will break other peoples mods intentionally and without any reason since you now know how it will break them and what would be the proper way for making your mod.
A Mod being Uploaded to the Nexus DOESENT hurt the next guy or their Game. You dont like it, let go. You want to say something about the Mod for Suggestive Criticism, do it.
Im so Sick of Lore Fanatics that Complains about the Tiniest of things, but Big Chest Naked Anime Girls or Pony Creatures seems all fine and dandy to everyone.
This is a Mod by Dahveed who Uploaded it for the Community and NOT for the Lore Fanatic that is so scared he believes the Mod is going to Magically worm itself into their Game.
People are Free to do what they want with THEIR OWN GAME, the Mods they Upload Doesent effect you or your Game.
Stop trying to Rule over Modders as if you wrote the TES Series. Theres No Law or Forum Rules or where Todd Howard Stated anywhere that heres the Creation Kit and Just make Lore Mods because I Order It.
Edit: Just to make my point clear, I'm not trying to jump down your throat here, though I do think calling the guy a "douche" was a bit much.
Nobody likes when someone criticizes their stuff; I get that. At the same time, there are positive and negative ways to take criticism. Getting upset and insulting someone because you feel insulted is a negative way to react to criticism. Why stress yourself over that, even in the smallest way, when you could just ignore him, or if you truly felt that he stepped over the line, report his post and let a moderator take any action they deem necessary?
The other thing you might consider is that even if his way of voicing his opinion wasn't super friendly, there was still a point to consider, in that your method could in fact create incompatibilities with other mods, when it doesn't need to. Deleting the mesh file still leaves the reference to the object in the game, as far as I know; it just makes it invisible and unable to be interacted with. Completely removing the offending objects would if nothing else avoid leaving any unused references to objects floating about in the game world, and in the best case, it means less chances of incompatibilities with other mods.
Edit #2: My girlfriend actually just brought up another point that I really do hope you consider. What happens if a player either accidentally or purposely drops gold while playing? Without a mesh to reference, that gold disappears. Except it doesn't, because Skyrim will still register the object as having been dropped at the player's position. Even if this happens just a few times, it can end up polluting an area with "phantom" objects that, while not taking up space that can be seen, still take up space in the eyes of the game.
I can totally understand why you might take this approach to the task of making there be less gold lying all over the place, but your method really can have a lot of unforseen consequences for anyone that uses it,(Including you! D: ) and as a fellow fan of Skyrim and part-time modder, I sincerely urge you to reconsider this method, for the sake of both your own game's stability, and that of other people that use your mod.
Theres a Mod that Changes the Gold Coins, in witch i have my Vanilla Gold and this
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34148
I'm tired of defending myself. It has worked fine for me and has done exactly what I want it to. I thought I'd share it with the community so they might also use this simple but effective tweak.
I didn't expect so many people so complain so loudly about something so simple.
I'm not even trying to complain about it. I'm trying to point out that the mod has serious potential to cause some serious problems later on in the game for anyone that uses it. You said that you use the mod, so I'm trying to help you, too. Deleting the mesh still leaves loose records of that gold that you can't see or touch out in the game world, and that really can cause problems later on. I mean, if you're okay with potential save-corrupting objects in crypts and such, okay. At least leave a warning on the description, though, and if you do run into any problems, consider this mod before any others, especially if you run into problems in dungeons or bandit lairs.
Deleting a mesh like that is poor modding practice, and there's a reason the most well-known mods don't do it. It creates incompatibilities, and leaves uncollected "garbage" in the world, in the form of coins and purses that don't have meshes, but still exist in the game world. I hate using the word, but it's very amateurish, and speaks of a modder's lack of understanding of how Skyrim works, and their lack of care for potential incompatibilities. It's the modding equivalent of sweeping something under a rug, instead of properly disposing of it. This practice should absolutely not be encouraged, and if we really want modding to get better, it shouldn't be allowed at all.
This is actually a rather "poor" method of doing this (for lack of a better term).
It's going to cause problems, and will stop people from using your mod if they decide it is the cause of those problems (which it will be).
Find a better solution.
You don't know as much as you think you do about modding. You're either unaware of this, or trying to sound like you know more than you do.
If you knew as much as you are letting on, you'd know that I am obviously not deleting any meshes or objects from anyone's game, and there is literally a ZERO percent chance that I will ever corrupt anyone's save game. (Seriously this shows how little you know about modding if you think this).
Read the description again, or at least open up my mod and see what it actually does (you clearly do not know what my mod actually does), and do more research before claiming that my mod will corrupt people's saves (this is a laughable accusation).
It's hard to be respectful of someone who comes across as so arrogant, accuses me of breaking things, and clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
"How it does this: I simply edited the base objects "Gold" and "Coin Purse" in the Creation kit so that they no longer reference a mesh. This effectively removes them from sight and prevents the player from interacting with them in the game. When you play, it's as though they aren't there."
Yes, that makes the two objects not visible or able to be interacted with by the player. However, it does not actually remove them from the game world. It's messy, and it conflicts with any other mod that messes with those two objects. The conflict is in itself not a bad thing. Plenty of mods conflict with each other. Leaving objects in the world by just having them not reference a mesh, though, really isn't the cleanest way to remove them, and can definitely cause problems. Maybe not right away, and heck, you might even be able to get through a full playthrough without running into any problems from it. But it's really, truly not the way that anyone should be thinking is acceptable when it comes to problem-solving when modding.
The proper solution is, as someone else suggested, pulling up the two items in question, and just removing them from the cells where they appear as loose items. It accomplishes the same thing, and while it does edit a lot more things, any conflicts will be incredibly easy to resolve by just putting one mod or the other ahead in the load order. With the more clean method of removing the loose gold, if some other mod edits a dungeon cell with gold lying around, a user can put that other mod after yours in the load order, and just have the gold still lying around, but without anything going bad. With the method you're currently using, since the actual cell isn't being touched but the object is, any edits to the cell work just fine, except now the gold that was laying about in the dungeon is floating around with no mesh, according to the game. It's not visible, and the player cannot touch it, but the game still thinks it's there.
That's the part you don't seem to get about what I'm telling you here. Your mod sounds like a good idea, but its execution has one major flaw, in that "Gold" and "Coin Purse" are still scattered all over the game world in the eyes of the engine itself. Since you didn't remove their records from every cell where they're supposed to be, those objects are most definitely still present in some form. In a form that absolutely can cause conflicts, and might very well do just that, depending on the mods someone is running. Even if it doesn't cause problems, it's still a rather messy solution, and you'd be doing yourself a favor as a modder to dig a bit deeper into the Creation Kit and properly remove the objects. It's more time-consuming, sure. But that's often the best way to get something done cleanly when modding Skyrim.
I can see that I'm not likely to convince you, though. I'll lay off, and hope that your mod doesn't cause any problems in anyone's saves, be it yours or another user's. I do hope that you at least consider my advice, especially if any problems with loose objects in cells arise later.
Okay so maybe one user one day, after 400 hours of playing with my mod, come across that one special quest from that one special mod that requires him to specifically loot one piece of gold off of a counter. So what? Unload my mod, loot the damn gold, then load it back up again and have a nice day.
It is literally impossible for my mod to "break" anything, since any other mod that references (for some strange reason????) a piece of gold lying on the counter will still work, because the gold is still in the game. (This happens to be TES5Edit's strategy when cleaning mods in some respects; "undeleting" references puts them back in the game world, invisible to the player, so that other mods referencing those objects won't break.)
I'll make you a deal: if you can play this mod with 200 other mods which all tinker with gold and the economy and manage to find something my mod "breaks" I will personally donate 100 dollars to your paypal account.
PS: sorry my bad English
This is one example.
Also check out SkyTweak, there are lots of possibilities there.
Then there's the coin purses behind counters for thief characters. Those belong there.
A couple shiny clinky coins on someone's nightstand? Yep they belong there as well.
I like the idea of not just finding coins in some bandits cave or a Nordic ruin being all out of place but removing the model is a hamfisted way of going about it. Use the "Use info" feature the CK has and see where they are and if it's an unlikely location when you look then disable the reference instead and leave the ones in places one would expect some coins or a coin purse where it lays. You don't ruin someone's hard work they put into a vault and thieves can try to snatch the coin purse behind the counter, and that poor Nord farmer still has his coins where he left them before bed. It will take time and patience to do but the end result would be superior.
Removing it from specific locations is one thing, this on the other hand can end up causing issues. Several mods also actually do address gold issues where these loose coins are not that big a deal. In real life it is very possible to find money laying around it's actually very common to have money sitting around as people empty their pockets upon entering their home. Nordic ruins my problem is the fact the currency is current it should be a nordic currency. In my game 20 gold coins can't even pay for cheese.
If you get your money from a nightstand or table, you are not going to get rich. Getting rich in these games usually means leveling up and killing high-level enemies and looting chests. So, in effect, this mod really has no effect at all, because the vast majority of money is not lying on tables. Why does armour and weapons get a pass too? No idea. Now a blacksmith would lock his weapons away in my opinion, and he wouldn't leave bars stacked up for me to easily steal too. Those are worth more than any random splash of gold coins.
But there you go.
I'd say take this along further, perhaps with reworks to the skill system to at least make gaining points slower, so you can't get around buying it by making it yourself. Eorlund Grey-Mane honed his craft his entire life to work the Sky-Forge, and you can master the same craft in a matter of days in gameplay.
There's also the deal that there isn't enough pickings for thief characters, and that scores aren't a renewable resource, unless the items in homes respawn and I just don't check again after I rob them.
Clutter like silverwear also isn't valuable enough to make a real profit off. I'd say take this small rework further to create a true wealth/thievery mod.
You'd still be able to pick them up, but if you can't see them I doubt that would happen often. It's hard enough to pick them up even when you *can* see them.
But that creates a new issue and that makes it incompatible with any mod that changes the location. Take a coin purse sitting on a table in a farmhouse, if that was made static without collision and someone rearranged that house and their mod is higher in the load order then this mod you will have a coinpurse in the wrong spot and the player cant pick it up or move it.
Now who is going to get asked why they coinpurse cant be picked up? The mod author who rearranged the farmhouse. So shutting off the collision not only will create a problem but other mod authors who have no idea about this mod will spend hours trying to figure out the problem. Soooo. with that said intentionally shutting of collision for objects that are in hundreds of locations is not allowed on the Nexus because it breaks the game. Not a CTD break but if you cannot pick something up anymore and it can cause other mods issues like stupid floating coinpurses it still breaks the game.
His removing the .nif doesn't break the game so it is allowed even if it is the wrong way of doing this because with this mod installed nobody can use those items for decoration in their own mod if this is used and that's just not right.
Edit: Adding alpha wiill do nothing, it can still be taken as you say dupre. That is also a bad practice as the object still renders. You are much better with a blank nif.
**end history/start criticism**
There is a VERY legitimate concern raised, that the mod author hasnt addressed, of how this will bork Skyrim that has gold there on purpose. I would like to see an explanation of that before I consider DLing. Because a mod is junk if it borks a quest line or locks out a site. You have a fine idea, but does it work in practice, or just set more bug-f^ckery in Skyrim's already BAF (buggy as F^*K) system?
Another legitimate concern raised questions how compatible your mod is with anything else. You should give a list of mods you use or recommend, so we users have an idea of what to expect and how to incorporate.
This is meant as friendly constructive criticism. I hope you take it as such, and add the info. Good Luck, and happy gaming.