First off Greetings to all! This is my first post. hehe
I am usually bad with commas. So, I have started using both of the mods mentioned here and I must say... You should bottle this and call it "Brain Reliever" :-)
NoxCorporatus wrote: "Well, when we don't know the gender of this "someone" whose pocket we're supposedly picking, I believe "they" and "their" is considered grammatically correct. Singular or epicene they, IIRC."
I would reply: This must be a new form of grammar. When I went through grammar in school (many years ago) the teaching was: "When in doubt about gender, always use the masculine (he, him, his). Now I know that will get some of the feminist dander up but it is the original rule of grammar and it also takes care of the singular/plural conversion problem.
The truly correct "Inclusive" way to write: "Pick someone's pocket by activating them while sneaking." is "Pick someone's pocket by activating him or her while sneaking."
Of course I was the type to stop using Websters when they put the word "ain't" in it, just to sell more dictionaries.
Any time I see "acceptable way" when talking about grammar or word usage I immediately think "Broken Rule". After all, rules are rules and pandering is for wimps.
However, I can't believe you folks have yet to mention the one thing that makes me cringe every time I see it in the game. That is the use of the word "Bring" when it should be "Take". That drives me insane and it is done everywhere in this game.
Love this mod and I am greatly relieved to find gamers who know things about grammar. I thought they stopped teaching it in schools years ago.
Yes I know I am replying to myself but, wouldn't "Brain Reliever" be a funny name for a weapon? Could be a hammer or mace in this game, pistol or sniper rifle in others. Oh, could be a type of poison but then you could just call it "Braino". Nah too household chemical sounding.
Sorry, it has been a long day and I need some sleep.
Late reply, but I recently picked Skyrim up again (and needed to reinstall stuff), so...
It's actually /not/ new grammar. At least if you are to believe the people over at the Oxford Dictionary. "Some people object to the use of plural pronouns in this type of situation on the grounds that it’s ungrammatical. In fact, the use of plural pronouns to refer back to a singular subject isn’t new: it represents a revival of a practice dating from the 16th century. It’s increasingly common in current English and is now widely accepted both in speech and in writing." As for why it was revived, it was probably due to increasing objections to the 'default gender' being male as well as the increased mix of genders in various workplaces that were previously pretty much exclusive to one gender (nurses, executives, mechanics etc).
@Forzane: Rewritten, actually :p As for how well the statement agrees with Elder Scrolls lore, I really have no clue, but it is glaringly obvious (if it's written just like that in the game) that they switch from present to past tense mid-sentence. If the years *have* rendered the falmer blind, their other senses *have* become more acute. Unless my sense of grammar is completely off. ^^;
@Nymeria: ["Pick someone's pocket by activating them while sneaking. Looking at their inventory is harmless - taking anything is a crime." ("Someone" is traditionally a singular pronoun, thus "them" and "their" create a grating agreement issue. Additionally, that dash should be a semicolon.)]
Well, when we don't know the gender of this "someone" whose pocket we're supposedly picking, I believe "they" and "their" is considered grammatically correct. Singular or epicene they, IIRC.
As for em dash vs. semicolon, I have to admit that to me it looks fine with a dash (since I read it sort of like a "wait for it" pause). That might, however, be because I grew up with Swedish grammar, where semicolons seemed more or less extinct for some reason.
But I absolutely love your mod! It's taken years of self-therapy to learn not to aggressively point out my friends' grammar mistakes, even if I still fail to hold back now and then. To see grammar mistakes in games and books that supposedly have had editors look at them makes me cry inside. Would endorse ten times or more if I could. Thank you. <3
Epicene pronouns are popular and common but not grammatically correct. I tackled all subject/verb/pronoun agreement issues to keep in line with modern style guides. As for semicolons vs. em dashes, the rules are a bit blurry, indeed; I generally fall back on the rule that you should use the least powerful punctuation for every situation. In a situation where a semicolon is legal (and in this case, where it's also nicely parallel), use it, thereby saving the em dash for interjections or other moments when nothing else can legally serve.
I try not to be a jerk about grammar too since I'm not perfect either! I just wanted the mod fixed for my own sanity. Ironically, since then, I've started using the Uncle Sheo loading screen replacers in my own game because they're hilarious even if imperfect. But it's still awesome to hear people are still using this one!
Just a note: if you use this with SkyRe it will undo all the changes SkyRe makes to the loading screens and will give you vanilla (albeit with correct grammar) loading screens texts.
Interesting, I never noticed the bad grammar in this game, maybe because I was more interested in what they were saying rather than in how they were saying it. It helps that English is not my native tongue. Downloading it.
@Jphyper That's actually not an error; it's a stylistic issue. The possessive form of singular nouns ending in an 's' may or may not include an 's' after the apostrophe.
Some people prefer to put an 's' after the apostrophe no matter what. Others prefer, in each instance, to write the word the way that they would pronounce it. (For example, James's with the 's', but Jesus' without the 's'.) Either way is correct.
Personally, however, I also prefer Mehrunes's to Mehrunes'.
@chaynik & @Jphyper: Yup, Chaynik is right on this -- that's a style issue rather than a grammar issue. It's actually pretty funny how many pages of the AP Stylebook (the example I am most familiar with) devotes to possessives and all the zillions of exceptions. The most basic form of the rule (as AP's writers tell it) is to judge it by pronunciation, as Chaynik notes. I don't have the mod with me to check for sure, but since I internalize it as "may-roonz razor" rather than "may-roon-zez razor," I most likely left it as Mehrunes' Razor. But who knows whether I am pronouncing it as intended in my head.
I really wish I could use this, but it would conflict with another mod I have, which replaces the loading messages with something else entirely. I just want to know if the most annoying error (to me) was fixed in this. "Mehrunes' Razor" should be "Mehrunes's Razor". Is that fixed at least?
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This is my first post. hehe
I am usually bad with commas. So, I have started using both of the mods mentioned here and I must say...
You should bottle this and call it "Brain Reliever" :-)
NoxCorporatus wrote: "Well, when we don't know the gender of this "someone" whose pocket we're supposedly picking, I believe "they" and "their" is considered grammatically correct. Singular or epicene they, IIRC."
I would reply: This must be a new form of grammar. When I went through grammar in school (many years ago) the teaching was: "When in doubt about gender, always use the masculine (he, him, his). Now I know that will get some of the feminist dander up but it is the original rule of grammar and it also takes care of the singular/plural conversion problem.
The truly correct "Inclusive" way to write: "Pick someone's pocket by activating them while sneaking." is "Pick someone's pocket by activating him or her while sneaking."
Of course I was the type to stop using Websters when they put the word "ain't" in it, just to sell more dictionaries.
Any time I see "acceptable way" when talking about grammar or word usage I immediately think "Broken Rule". After all, rules are rules and pandering is for wimps.
However, I can't believe you folks have yet to mention the one thing that makes me cringe every time I see it in the game. That is the use of the word "Bring" when it should be "Take". That drives me insane and it is done everywhere in this game.
Love this mod and I am greatly relieved to find gamers who know things about grammar. I thought they stopped teaching it in schools years ago.
Have a great day!
Sorry, it has been a long day and I need some sleep.
Cheers!
It's actually /not/ new grammar. At least if you are to believe the people over at the Oxford Dictionary.
"Some people object to the use of plural pronouns in this type of situation on the grounds that it’s ungrammatical. In fact, the use of plural pronouns to refer back to a singular subject isn’t new: it represents a revival of a practice dating from the 16th century. It’s increasingly common in current English and is now widely accepted both in speech and in writing."
As for why it was revived, it was probably due to increasing objections to the 'default gender' being male as well as the increased mix of genders in various workplaces that were previously pretty much exclusive to one gender (nurses, executives, mechanics etc).
@Nymeria: ["Pick someone's pocket by activating them while sneaking. Looking at their inventory is harmless - taking anything is a crime." ("Someone" is traditionally a singular pronoun, thus "them" and "their" create a grating agreement issue. Additionally, that dash should be a semicolon.)]
Well, when we don't know the gender of this "someone" whose pocket we're supposedly picking, I believe "they" and "their" is considered grammatically correct. Singular or epicene they, IIRC.
As for em dash vs. semicolon, I have to admit that to me it looks fine with a dash (since I read it sort of like a "wait for it" pause). That might, however, be because I grew up with Swedish grammar, where semicolons seemed more or less extinct for some reason.
But I absolutely love your mod! It's taken years of self-therapy to learn not to aggressively point out my friends' grammar mistakes, even if I still fail to hold back now and then. To see grammar mistakes in games and books that supposedly have had editors look at them makes me cry inside. Would endorse ten times or more if I could. Thank you. <3
I try not to be a jerk about grammar too since I'm not perfect either! I just wanted the mod fixed for my own sanity. Ironically, since then, I've started using the Uncle Sheo loading screen replacers in my own game because they're hilarious even if imperfect. But it's still awesome to hear people are still using this one!
Is this mod still being updated?
Edit#1: Reads like a textbook now. Endorsed.
@Jphyper
That's actually not an error; it's a stylistic issue. The possessive form of singular nouns ending in an 's' may or may not include an 's' after the apostrophe.
Some people prefer to put an 's' after the apostrophe no matter what. Others prefer, in each instance, to write the word the way that they would pronounce it. (For example, James's with the 's', but Jesus' without the 's'.) Either way is correct.
Personally, however, I also prefer Mehrunes's to Mehrunes'.