A brief history of Vortex
Development of Vortex first began all the way back in 2016. At the time our team at Nexus Mods consisted of Tannin (Seb) as the sole developer of the mod manager, several backend developers who were primarily focused on running and maintaining the Nexus Mods website, and a couple of Community Managers. Since then, we've expanded our team and resources dramatically, including founding entire departments that didn't exist before, specifically Front End, Design and Product. While we are incredibly proud of Vortex - a staggeringly versatile mod manager and an undeniable successor to Nexus Mods Manager - it is a product of its time. With our new teams in place, we believe that we can do even better (more on that later in this post).
It is with a touch of sadness that we formally announce Seb's departure. He left Nexus Mods on amicable terms approximately two months ago. We want to extend our heartfelt gratitude for his unwavering dedication, hard work and professionalism, and wish him the best in his future endeavours.
Seb's journey in creating Vortex was not undertaken alone. In 2018, Nagev (Adrian) joined the team and played a pivotal role in developing several impressive extensions and frameworks for the application. Unfortunately, Adrian had to leave abruptly in 2022 due to health concerns and is also sorely missed.
With the departure of the original Vortex developers, we close one chapter and begin another. Our mod management application is of such significant importance and it has taken some time to find the right talent to take it forward. For over a year, we've been steadily assembling a new team to take our app development to the next level.
The future of Vortex
We recruited Insomnious (Simon) back in February to collaborate with Tannin and continue work on Vortex. If you follow the GitHub activity, changelogs, or have spent some time in the Vortex forums you might've seen him around already. Simon has a background in creating modding tools for Unity games.
Simon's work on Vortex can be seen in the last few releases and include better support for Markdown in collection instructions, error-handling improvements and enhancements to how Vortex displays and detects changes to Premium membership. The most significant change he has authored so far is the shift to using OAuth for Vortex login, aligning it with other apps.
When asked about Vortex's current state, Insomnious praised its power and modular design but acknowledges the challenges of catering to a diverse user base. Users range from casual gamers to dedicated modders, and the goal is to make modding more inclusive while accommodating experts. Community feedback varies, with some wanting more upfront information and others seeking a gentler learning curve.
Future plans for Vortex include improved communication of updates, error-handling enhancements, and expanded game support. The most exciting update is a new default theme that aligns Vortex's interface with the Nexus Mods website. Dashboard updates are planned to ease the new user experience. Behind the scenes, efforts are focused on optimizing development pipelines and documentation.
Vortex will continue to be our primary, supported mod manager for the foreseeable future and will be the application that we provide to support modding for upcoming titles such as Starfield.
The Nexus Mods App
Alongside the continued development of Vortex, Tim (Halgari) has put together a new team of experienced developers from the community to begin work on our next generation of mod management software - dubbed the "Nexus Mods App". The app team combines the skills of developers who have worked on Vortex, Mod Organizer 2, Wabbajack and several other modding tools.
The Nexus Mods App will be a ground-up reimagining of what we (and you) want our mod manager to be, building on the lessons learnt from Vortex and NMM before that.
Mat (Demorphic) caught up with Tim about the new project and his new team to answer what we're sure are some of your burning questions.
Halgari, how has it been since joining Nexus Mods, did a specific vision exist for our mod manager, or was this something you had quite a lot of freedom with?
It’s been great, I think it’s a dream for many software engineers to turn their hobby into a full-time job. So being able to work on modding tools, and mod managers has in many ways been a life goal fulfilled.
As far as the vision for the app goes, I have been given a lot of trust and freedom. Being told to “go build the right thing, we trust you” is both empowering and daunting.
I have a strong background in software engineering, and I've spent ~20 years working on large computing systems. I also spent well over a decade writing code in a programming language called Clojure.
Something that was pushed heavily in the Clojure community was the concept of “rethinking your designs in the context of new advancements in technology”. For example, these days most computers have SSDs and multi-core processors, we should leverage this as the “new norm” especially when considering how the environment will change by the time we end up launching an application.
So after joining Nexus Mods, I spent a good 2-3 months researching existing mod managers, writing prototypes, and figuring out how I could apply lessons I’ve learned in my career to mod managers. I also spent time nailing down the technology I wanted to use for this work. Every programming language has its good and bad sides, and so I spent some time writing these all up in a matrix of the requirements our project had, and the benefits of each language. In the end, I landed on C# and Avalonia as a great middle-ground of excellent productivity, extremely performant code, and cross-platform support.
It looks like instead of building a “Vortex 2” or iterating our current mod manager, you want to go back and build mod management from the ground up, why is that?
In many ways, this is a “Vortex 2” just under a different name. The name change from “Vortex” to “The Nexus Mods App” is a marketing decision more than anything. We realised that a lot of new users didn’t know why a thing called “Vortex” should be central to their modding workflow. In addition, even the term “mod manager” is foreign to a lot of users, we were getting feedback along the lines of “I don’t make mods, why do I need a manager for them, I just want to install mods?”. So while “the App” is a rather sterile and boring title it instantly conveys what the app does. If you want to run Discord on your desktop you download the “Discord App”, if you want to install mods from Nexus Mods, download the “Nexus Mods App”.
Can you talk a bit about your thought process when deciding whether to keep adding functionality to Vortex or take a different approach?
Certainly. First of all decisions like this are always hard to make, and should never be taken lightly. My main approach in analysing what to do with a project like this is to look at the existing app, and the issues with it, identify why things were designed the way they are, and figure out if those requirements and rationales still stand, or if new technologies render some of these requirements moot.
Vortex was designed to be maintained mostly by one person, acting as the community coordinator. It was designed to be a shell into which a lot of extensions could be injected. In addition, it was developed in Node.js, primarily with Windows in mind.
But the world has shifted a bit in several regards. Nexus Mods now has funds available to operate a small team of developers to focus specifically on our app (we currently have 5 programmers, a UI designer and a project manager), so this means we can take on more work. Relying primarily on volunteer work means that when something goes wrong with the support for some game, we have to kindly ask people to spend their unpaid free time fixing a bug. If we have more people on the project and work in a more centralised, but open community, we can fix these bugs ourselves and keep a higher level of quality control on the project.
In addition, while Node.JS was probably a good choice when Vortex was created, in the meantime other technologies have come out that allow for much greater performance, flexibility and simplicity in app design. Specifically, we’re basing the app on .NET and Avalonia. These tools are cross-platform and are performant enough that we don’t need to write submodules in C or other languages.
So to summarise, in order to get Vortex to the place we wanted it to be, we would have had to rewrite large portions of the application and at that point, we might as well rewrite it in a platform more closely aligned with our long-term goals.
It looks like you have pulled together a very talented team to help you out, who are these guys?
We’ve been looking for the right people to support the development of the Nexus Mods App. We now have the team assembled.
Simon (Insomnious) has been a Unity developer for some time and has quickly picked up the ins and outs of Vortex, so he’s heading up Vortex (as mentioned above).
Florian (erri120) and I have worked together for quite some time on Wabbajack, and he also has been heavily involved with Mutagen (patching library for Bethesda games) and has written the Game finder library we use in the app.
Seweryn (Sewer56) has built several modding frameworks and brings with him a lot of experience with micro-optimization, reverse engineering, and low-level knowledge, as well as experience with some of the more arcane parts of .NET like native interop, function hooking, etc.
Gabriel (AL12), most people know from his work as a lead developer on the Mod Organizer 2 project. It’s great to have someone on the team with a wealth of experience in mod management, game modding and open-source development.
Thanks, it’s good to get that additional insight. Your philosophy on development appears to be very open and collaborative. Are you keen on involving the modding community in Nexus Mods App development?
Absolutely, I’ve been a big proponent of open-source software development almost since I started programming in the early 90s. As a manager told me years ago: “Lock a developer in a room for two weeks and they’ll come out convinced the code they wrote is the best thing ever designed by humankind”. In other words, being open to input and suggestions from the community is a great way to get a new perspective on your work, and to find out what’s working for people and what needs to be improved.
While we anticipate doing the majority of the work on the app ourselves, we would love to get more people involved in the project. The code is open source (GPL3), and the toolchain is quite easy to set up, just install your C# IDE of choice, hit “build” and you’re good to go.
Nexus Mods App will be open source. Why do you feel open source is the way forward, regardless of the risks?
Open-source development is critical to the success of almost any modding application. First of all, open-source code is free for anyone to read, and audit. This means it’s much harder for bad actors to develop code that has ulterior motives.
Now obviously, Nexus Mods has to make money, but we do so via visitors to the site and premium subscriptions. This means that success for a mod manager is encouraging more modding, which aligns well with the goals of the users. Users want to mod games, we want to write tools that make it easier for them to mod games.
Open source is really the only way to build a project like this, because otherwise the financial incentives are all off, if a modding app is paid or closed source, it only makes the users want to use the application less. Likewise, if we made the mod manager a premium-only feature, we would be discouraging new users from trying the app on a whim. So while like any for-profit company, the goal of the app is to drive increased engagement and subscription, the best way to do this is to encourage more modding via a completely free, 100% open-source application.
What's the current status of the app?
The Nexus Mods App is considered pre-alpha which means it's not suitable for use by the general public. We are open to community developers trying it out if you're interested in collaborating or sharing feedback with our team on it, but you should not attempt to use any build of the app as a daily driver for modding yet as this can (and at this point, will) break your modding setup.
We are building the app to milestones, so you can track the progress towards each major goal by checking out the GitHub page. No timelines will be provided for these milestones as we're working towards a level of quality rather than a set date.
I want to know more. How do I get involved?
If you're fluent in C# and would like to learn more about the Nexus Mods app, you can visit the GitHub repository here. There you can read about the technical decisions driving the fundamental design of the app, see open tasks/milestones for planned features and download preview builds. It's worth noting that 80% of the work so far has been on the "back end" of the project and the current UI is not an accurate representation of what we've done so far.
We're not looking for user feedback quite yet, but we'll be sure to make it hard to miss once we do get to that stage!
In the meantime, you can continue to vote on your favourite suggestions for Vortex on our feedback board. Vortex will remain our primary, supported mod manager for the foreseeable future but we'll keep you updated on the progress of the Nexus Mods App through our site news and forums.
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A moderator has closed this comment topic for the time beingWhen I'm not playing PC games, I'm a marketer for enterprise software . Please listen to practically everyone in these 500 comments that are saying things like "app" sounds too pedestrian and lacks depth.
There's already existing brand recognition and faith behind Vortex, but since it's such a groundbreaking refresh a re-brand is understandable. If your goal is to welcome newcomers and casuals (as in, people that just bought their first PC for Starfeid or BG3 or something and are new to modding) I can empathise with wanting to align the brand with the website, and avoid the "mod manager" nomenclature (although I don't feel mod manager sends mixed signals).
I'd argue that the simplest route is best.... and just call the new application "Nexus".
This is 100% anecdotal, but among my circles and discord servers when talking about getting new mods, updating mods, installing mods, etc.... we're always saying "Just go to Nexus" or "I use Nexus"
EDIT: knowing your audience is important. We're all nerds here. We like order. Vortex 2.0 is best for that. We also like puns, so "Mod Manager Formerly Known as NMM" is good too.
no confusion, builds upon brand equity.
Done.
I suggest sticking with the Vortex name that you worked so hard to give credibility to over the years instead of starting from scratch. Vortex NX or Vortex NexGen keeps the name you worked hard to build and users have grown to trust yet states it's new and improved.
1. Swirl
2. Cyclone
3. Lagoon
4. Nexus ("Gramps i miss your stupid farts")
5. Vortex II or Vortex RED (Personal Favorite) ("Prince Vortex the Second named after his Father")
6. Dark Loader
7. Evil General Mod
8. Supreme General Mod Manager (SGMM)
9. Psycoloon 2.0
10. Nexus Suite ("Really a viable option")
11. Mad Manager ("Why so serious...?")
Nexus Mod Manager
Vortex
Nexus Mods App
There is already confusion between NMM and Vortex. I’d suggest a riff off Vortex to build continuity and brand recognition. People know after 7 years that Vortex is the mod manager sponsored by Nexus.
Vortex 2.0
Vortex Next
Vortex NG
And although there may be some resistance to “Vortex” it has started to gain traction and good reputation with users despite MO2 fans attempts to smear it. Just make it Vortex but better.
Btw, no one says "discord app".
This isn’t about trendiness vs corporate vs markety, it’s about clarity and continuity for everyone. Just witness the AE vs SE churn and confusion.
(and good to see you too
@Zanderat agreed
Modding is a hobby, one the mod-maker is not obliged to do and can stop at any time. I collect stamps, I don't pretend that makes me special.
23 August 2023, 4:14PM The answer to that question is: it's me. I had the final say on the name of the project, although I did talk with a lot of people ahead of time. I get that names are important to people, and people love to workshop (or bikeshed) them, but it's pretty set in stone at this point. If we do our job well, how "boring" or "cringe" or "corporate" or "market-y" the name is won't matter. In the end what matters is how well the application works.
So.... you do wear jorts then?
If you want to download Discord...you call it...wait for it.... DISCORD..
If you want to use Discord...you dont say: "oh im gonna load up the Discord app" you just call it Discord.
Not Discord communications manager and also not Discord app..
Whoever calls it so, is very detached from reality and if he wants to call Vortex 2 the "Nexus Mods app" because he likes it..
then this is a very bad descision, based on the opinion of 1 person alone that apparently needs to add "app" to everything...
as if it adds to its importance...because it doesnt add to clarify what it is or does and just sounds abhorrently stupid, just some word salad.
This crappy naming has to be revoked and put up for vote by the community.
Vortex has had a hard time establishing itself, but it managed to do so and gained recognition as a good reliable tool, far exceeding NMM and pretty much trading blows with MO2 and its userbase, which is something crappy old NMM wouldnt even dare to dream about...
And now some dude wants to throw that over board and crap on continuity and well established branding.
Just because he likes it, you cant make that s#*! up, sounds like something the new "manager", and it sounds like one with all the senseless marketing blabla, would do in a company to throw his weight around and make everyone and everything miserable with it.
Pro tip:
r/slash malicious compliance is full with stories about such individuals...maybe read them or listen to them on YT or so and learn a thing or two...
otherwise we might hear some story later on r/slash am i the butthole?...
/rant off.
Great mindsIt’s more than enough your are building from the ground up, which is great news!
"nexus mods app".
i bet that took so much brainstorming and angst before you came up with the final decision to go with that. i dont envy you the sleepless nights before you made that decision.
"Jortex"
*Makes sure the lights are reflecting off my glasses just so*
"Get in the Jortex, Shinji"
With much respect, troubleshooting should be also a part of the equation.
I have to help users troubleshoot Vortex in a regular basis, and I can tell you people confuse Vortex with NMM all the time. Renaming it to Vortex Mod App will only add to the confusion.
Of course my evidence is also anecdotal, but as the product lead you should have a stronger evidence to make a case.
Please do share how and who you surveyed.
Again, this is NOT about the name being cringe or whatever, it's about how people like me have to deal with confused users.
i had never seen those two words in the same sentence until this news item, nor have i ever heard anyone call it that live.
I should point out that in order to remain consistent with this design reason, nexusmods need to update their website so that everywhere it mentions "discord" it is altered to "discord app", because it just rolls off the tongue and marries into the new strategy seamlessly.
What point, pre-alpha? Work this out guys. Don't make it more confusing. Vortex is good - it makes contextual sense with Nexus and they both have that -ex sound. Whatever the reason, you guys really need to reconsider. Marketing people are almost always out of touch.
Honestly, as a Nexus user since 2008 I have to say having it not called a Mod Manager will be confusing and strange.
BTW, still waiting on how it was determined that the term “mod manager” was sooooooo confusing…………..
I know this is something that many people have differering opinions on, but in the end a decision has to be made, and after seeking input from a lot of people at the Nexus and reviewing our options this naming is the decision I came to.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy a few more pairs of jorts.
edit: @halgari response above posted while I typing this out. So no point in beating a dead jorts wearing horse anymore.
3 Names? That's actually 4 names because there is the old Nexus Mod Manager and the new Github Nexus Mod Manager. The users rarely distinguish between the two and just say they use NMM. So that makes it even worse.
Program Name: Vortex 2.0
Program Description: a Nexus Mods app for organizing and managing your downloaded mods
Keeping the name "Vortex" would preserve the brand and make excellent marketing sense, in my opinion. Using the phrase "Nexus Mods app" in the program description would inform the user that Vortex is a Nexus Mods tool designed for mod management.
As it stands, the currently proposed program name "Nexus Mods app" may very well generate more and not less confusion.
I can't tell you how many times I used Vortex with an existing playthrough, only for it to immediately force LOOT without telling me, and completely destroy my entire game, it's done that with both Skyrim playthroughs, and Fallout 4. LOOT will do insane things like take esms and place them all the way at the bottom, or place JK Skyrim and place them all the way at the top.
This no doubt will cause instant crash every time.
If Vortex can just not force LOOT, then I wouldn't mind using it. I also found it saves things in funny places, why does it have it's own folder system, when it really should just save right in the Skyrim's data folder system?
I've been using Nexus mod manager, and even after using Mod Organizer, I see higher hopes in nmm.
Please don't remove nmm, as that's been a modding staple, at least for me
great, thanks for the insight and the opportunity to liaise with you on such a non-issue.
i can see that feedback that doesn't fit your perview isn't welcome. nice to get that out in the open early doors.
but you know this already.
These are not decisions that I take lightly. As mentioned in the article, many of the decisions on this project took me weeks or months to come to a concensous on, and I only did so after talking with many people, getting advice from leaders in the community and pulling from my existing experience in modding, software engineering, and project management. So to say I don't value feedback simply because I don't agree with you on this specific topic, is a bit reductive. Any given design question has many facets to it, pros, cons, etc. All of those facets have to be weighted by complexity and risk. And when that information has been gathered a decision has to be made. The name of the project is a decision that was made months ago, and there's little reason to reconsider it at this point. If there does come a time when I need to reconsider the naming of the project I'll certainly take what you've said into account. But to continue to re-evaluate every decision everytime someone asks is unproductive.
Hopefully that clears it up a bit.
That, or "Torvex 77".
Well it feels like Vortex forces LOOT. It's good to know I can switch that thing off, I did already know that I could do it, but I struggle to actually tell 'where' to find the off button for that
I still prefer Nexus Mod Manager as my first choice, even over Mod organizer. Mod organizer would be my second choice. But with Nexus mod manager, it's interface is easy, short simple and to the point. It puts things where they should go, and easy for me to use. Maybe it just soothes my ADHD driven eyes, but that's just me.
@halgari,
Back on the naming scheme : when was this an " open contribution processes " and who were these "many people" because some of us seem to have missed that memo ?
And who are these " leaders in the community "?
Since when does our modding community have a, or multiple, leader(s) and who are they according to you ?
Third sentence in and democracy is already down the drain. What happened to the Nexus being a modding community that is (like they always say) "for the people, by the people" and it being open for ideas and suggestions ?
What is implied about this community, is that they will never be able to get projects and ideas off the ground because they are not able to form a cohesive vision on how/when/why a project or idea will be successful. Last I looked this was still a community of modders. How are they unable to form a realistic and shared vision on a project ? Isn't that what they do when they create or use mods ? I do not understand this at all.
" Over and over again, studies show that creating a cohesive vision is all about listening to others' perspectives. The only way to make a vision stick long-term is to make sure it is truly shared. That means it has to speak to the goals and aspirations of more than just one person. " (or some leaders)
Just something I learned back in my days as a manager.
And I think more people fear for all the other ideas that are yet to be conceived. Will they be handled in the same matter ? Because that really is the underlying thought here. I think most of us would like to have a good working product rather than a shiny name. The final product matters most.
But if that final product lacks the shared vision of the people that use that product, said product will be used far less frequently if it is being used at all. So yeah, for now it's just a name for a mod manager... What else will be decided about this and future products ?
We just want to know why it was decided like this and what was done in the process to come to this "final" conclusion ? I think that these are the questions that people would like to get answered if you can ?
And yes, the name will also be final. We all know that the name will not be changed in the future.
Cheers
-=DD=-
Indiana: Who?
Maj. Eaton: Top... men.
To start - PLEASE understand the following is totally "Tough Love" in nature.
After reading and re-reading carefully all the comments here, I must absolutely agree with @Wookie120 :
"Sounds to me like some Second Lieutenant has had his authority questioned and is trying to show what a big bad person he is by pulling rank. Saw it a lot in The Army".
I saw the same in the Navy. You're coming across as "I'm smart, I'm in charge, and you people have no idea of how difficult this is but I've made my decision, get lost!" I think the words I'm looking for are Arrogant and Entitled.
I've been in the Electronics & Computer industry since we programmed by hand, throwing switches for each command. I've seen, and done, a lot more than 90% of the people here (yes, including You, my Friend), but I would NEVER take the tone you've taken. Never.
Names matter. Confusion for those new to Modding matter. Heck even experienced people will be confused by the name you're insisting on, there's no continuity. Now it's a THIRD name?? No. Doesn't work. Also - dropping an 'App' on the end doesn't make it cool or differentiate it, it just sounds affected, a 'putting on of airs' if you will.
In 2017, OK. Now ... not so much.
Of COURSE it's an app. It's like calling a new car the KIA Elegance Car. As they said in the 80's - Well Duh.
Managers succeed when they listen to others, and don't fall into the common trap of ripping down what was done by the previous management in a forced "show of power" to convince all that they have this under control.
In no way am I denying that you are smart, dedicated, or offering any other derogatory slur. I am, however telling you you need to listen to the large number of people who think your name choice isn't optimal. A name must be instantly identifiable. Your choice isn't, plain and simple.
Look, I'm sure you are a wonderful person but you must learn to be more open to ideas other than your own if you expect to succeed. Without feeling you've lost part of yourself. That's not easily learned. ;)
Thanks for your hard work here, it's appreciated!
I'm starting to think you don't know what you're doing. I wonder why Seb left all of a sudden.
Changing to Vortex was a major deal for me. Now we have to get ready for yet another manager?
Hundreds and hundreds of mods installed and for what? To be forced to do all the work again?
What comes after that? Another type of manager? Way to build confidence with your customers.
Oh, and I wanted to respond to some ugly responses:
@DarkDominion
Both of these responses are baffling to me. First off, it's just the damn name. He responded saying that the name will most likely stay the same but they will keep your suggestions in mind in case things change. You really expected them to just choose everything the small vocal community here decided to bike shed over and disregard their own opinions? Secondly, yes you can blame halgari for that. He specifically said that the name came down to him. Not to mention they specifically mentioned above that they were (and are) given almost absolute freedom on the development of the app. I honestly don't see anything wrong with his responses that have you all riled up. Seemed like you were sugar coating by trying to point the finger at someone else.
@DarkDominion
No offense, but you don't seem to be that informed on the management of open source repositories nor involved in the open source community based on this response and others. "Open contribution process" is simply the allowance to open a discussion topic on an issue/bug/feature request and get approval from the maintainers to implement it and create a pull request when you're ready to submit your changes for review. If you wanted an open contribution process for the name, it looks like you got one here.
@DarkDominion
Seems to me you're shoving words in his mouth. Nowhere did he say the project wasn't open for ideas and suggestions. I'm pretty sure he encouraged them. But the team gets the final say, not the community. Otherwise, what's the fuc*ing point of Nexus hiring and paying for a team that they specifically sought out for their experience and specializations? Hate to break it to you but the "vocal minority" are not the majority. They tend to be the community that are more involved in modding actively as a hobby rather than a quick solution, have issues they wish to voice (angry customers voice their criticisms vastly more than happy customers speak out with a positive review), and on common occasion they tend to have an arrogance they sway around with strong opinions that they believe is best for the modding community. I've been a part of the silent majority for a very long time, but the arrogance and pettiness in this thread finally got me to poke my head in.
@DarkDominion
Twisting his words to look like an insult to the modding community? Really? However, if you want to go that route I'll oblige you. First and foremost, 99% of mods are made by a single mod author. 99% of mods are not discussed and collaborated between authors to form some sort of large vision. Honestly, not sure what you're trying to say there. Even patches for mod compatibility are requested to be pointed at the conflicting mod in question for them to resolve most times. The only times I've seen more than one person work together on a mod is when a mod author "hires" a voice actor to come in "afterwards" and add voice lines. SKSE is another example of a couple devs working together (except they kinda worked for Bethesda together anyways). I've got two big home runs for you though.
1. 99% of mods aren't worked on as open source repositories with contributions. They are worked on by a single person with their own single vision. They may accept community feedback in discussion but the decision is their own.
2. Now I'll mention a mod that was and still is being worked on by a team of people (although not currently open source, assets and code are given to volunteers). Skyblivion. Truly ambitious project that always gets everyone excited when news comes out. However, it's had a rocky history on getting things done, what tasks were prioritized, lack of interest over time, etc etc. It's been under development since 2012 for a reason. Scope creep, in game graphic asset priority over game and quest logic, assigned volunteer contributors taking long absences or leaving the team. I'd say there was a lack of cohesive vision with firm leadership. As the years passed and there was a spark of passion to work on the project again here and there, game assets had to be remade in order to keep up with the times on more than one occasion. Side note here: This isn't a dig on Skyblivion, they've come so far and it looks incredible. I'll be excited to play when they release.
@DarkDominion
The future of the Nexus does not depend on it. They are doing just fine and have Vortex to fall back on. The problem with Vortex was most likely taking too many opinions and implementing too many things that everyone cried out for (as well as a lack of good UX with so many options while also trying to make it simple). I wouldn't expect any community polls that decide features. I'm sure the team has made a lot of decisions already and know where they want to go. I'd expect them to poll the community on aspects they are unsure on, or that are wishing to gauge community reaction. I really don't understand all the misgivings unless it's all stemmed from......the simple name. Be thankful. They are open sourcing the application code with a good open source license and no charge. That's huge and will help out future mod managing applications with the sharing of ideas.
/rant
hear hear
You've hit the nail on the head... the issue is a brand identity with 7 years of recognition is being ditched and in it's place the program's breif description is being used (which sounds like someones out of touch relative describing something that they can't remember the name of... "oh you know, that nexus mod manager thingy").
Vortex 2.0 is a brand identity that is much easier to follow for the large majority of people and clearly preaches new progress.
Many of the users will be "download and go" users, of which likley pay little attention to anything beyond brand names and what has an established reputation for working.
There are many reasons behind this behaviour, some of which include but not limited to: Language barriers, age, learning difficulties such as ADHD/Dyslexia, if the user is multi-screening or their attention is drastically divided, the users levels of rest/fatigue when using the nexus website and Vortex.
Being clearly identifiable is why marketing companies/departments spend billions on design and reasearch in this field... so that their combination of logo, brand name, and slogan or blurb can be clearly identified by a person that is barely paying attention and may actually be half alseep/overly tired. I mean the "idiot in a hurry" example is actually one of the keystones of marketing that not only highlighted a very valid point regarding advertising, but was so intrinsic to the process of marketing that it was made into a legal clause within marketing law governing brand identity.
At the end of the day, whoever legally owns the intellectual property rights over the app can call it whatever they want...
You can call it "Buttocks Sandwich Fiesta Party" for all I care personally, but to expect people to stand back and admire just how well something works or to marvel at it's quality when there's no brand confidence established is frankly a little naive, regardless of how well the app is actually made.
Users like myself and the others that care enough to to discuss this topic here aren't the people that need brand identity or consistency... it's the voiceless "download and go" masses that make up the bulk of the user base that need it, and the odds are they won't be able to tell the difference between an app made with lazy spaghetti code or an app that's professionally coded from the ground up ruby on rails style if both the apps do the same job for them. How would they know all the work put into it when all they're seeing is an app that let's them change their in game appearance, improve in game QoL, or more likley gives their favourite character a massive set of gazongas to stare at for the duration of their playthrough.
Some of us will nerd out on how well something works and be appreciative, but the majority will be thinking about how naked or OP their next playthrough will be, not about how much time a team of devs have spent tirelessly looking at the same damn code for hours on end to make things possible.
Grey goose vodka vs Smirnoff is a perfect example of how brand trumps quality every time.
In short: Grey goose was originally some real nasty bottom shelf, supermarket "un-branded" range of vodka that some rich dude aquired the rights to... he then splurged on a new bottle design and new brand identity which targeted those who like to throw money around and feel like they are living the "lux life" by asserting their affluence/financial prowess. Conviniently he was in the right circles to have the rebranded engine degreaser grade vodka launched at a few high end parties amidst the rich and famous. Typically the fringe famous and some grass roots music artists "now ballin" lapped it up and the brand skyrocketed.
Meanwhile in reality Smirnoff Red was voted the best quality and the smoothest drinkable vodka in numerous blind taste tests and continued to gain awards, whereas grey goose came in at the bottom of each test.
(Googling taste test awards etc will likley dig up the voting if it really matters that much to anyone but the point is the quality was rubbish but the brand was strong... very much due to the emporers clothes effect in this case, but none the less, now grey goose has been associated with luxury and quality, it's something people who have never even drank it will latch onto... of which is the fundamental point about brand identity and consistancy that everyone is stressing to convey on here regarding the brand name Vortex.)
All that said, if nothing else, today the internet delivered with yet another peal of amusement in the form of a new formula...
That being: Take the given companies trading name, then sandwich it with the description of the specific products purpose/identification/function.
ie, the iPhone 15 pro would now become:
The Apple Computer Incorporated mobile-cellular wifi multi radio enabled portable smart function semi-closed ecosystem communications and personal assistant platform - generation 15 fully featured version.
...which just rolls off the tongue as I'm sure Steve Jobs would have agreed.
As facepalmingly frustrating as the branding choices are for some here who are only attempting to offer some sound advice... On a more personal note and poking fun asside, I'm sure many will agree that we are indeed looking forward to the new appy app app for our mods and wish you all the best in it's creation. :)
If by anychance the "real" issue is intellectual property rights over the Vortex brand... just call the damn thing Cyclone then make sure the colouration, logos, etc are consistant with the Vortex imagery. Otherwise call it Vortex 2.0 haha.
I'm sure there are devs that can place a simple user bound either-or A/B voting system on the Nexus website for its users to vote between
A: Nexus Mods App
B: Vortex 2.0.
Even in the forums we have the ability to simply type A or B to place a vote.
All this is to say, that I am excited for the future of Nexus Mods, and if that means you name it whatever you need to to help those laymen like my friends, I'm fully supportive. You have such a wonderful team, and as said, when Collections came out, I modded more than I ever have before AND still played a smooth experience! As long as the new app, whatever its name is, is a solid product and achieves what Vortex does now if not better, I am excited for the new app!
Thank you to every single individual who has made modding games fun, easy, and accessible. All of you who have kept this site going for so long, every single one who uploads a mod, endorses a downloaded mod, makes Collections, etc.
THANK YOU!
Only one of those is active.
https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/wiki
Even when NMA becomes active, there will only be two active mod managers.
and eventually, as now, there will only be one again, once vortex is in turn discontinued.
My point is if you want to make a new mod manager, call it
Program Name: Vortex 2.0
Program Description: a Nexus Mods app for organizing and managing your downloaded mods
That's it. Nice, understandable, brand-preserved approach. If you get a confused e-mail from a new user (in a thousand) who does not know from this description why one needs it you can set up automatic e-mail responses linking to a wiki page. :)
I don't think this is the place to be reasonable.
And I just came here to find out how to use the new Forum - to discover Tannin is gone.
I have to help users troubleshoot Vortex in a regular basis, and I can tell you people confuse Vortex with NMM all the time. Renaming it to Vortex Mod App will only add to the confusion. https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/NexusMods.Apphybris training
Again, this is NOT about the name being cringe or whatever, it's about how people like me have to deal with confused users.
This is best answer.
Zanderat, Wolfpack49 and others. I question the logic of the new devs (yes, I have read their premise):
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Late to this one, sorry. Just tossing in my 2 cents for kicks. I think all will be well in the end, but I must agree with most of the other veterans active in these posts. I will start by saying that I LOVE change, but only if making things better for the user is the goal. Changing things solely for marketing/branding purposes is a generally bad idea. Make it utilitarian and functional, then make it intuitive, THEN brand it without breaking the first two pieces.
Names do matter, and Nexus has had lots of them for "mod managers" (a well-understood and syntactically accurate term for around 20 years BTW). The modding community power users have always steered clear of Nexus-backed mod managers ... until Vortex. Even with Vortex, our side of the 'cathedral' (open modding) community doesn't use it, because it's convoluted and bulky with usability-limited, branding-driven design decisions relative to the first reliable, community-maintained mod managers.
Wrye Mash/Bash was the only historically reliable "mod manager", and now we have "Mod Organizer" (now that's a good name ... what's it DO, I wonder?). Vortex does have all the bells and whistles regardless, but it's still bulky and branded, which is why our piece of the community doesn't really advocate it's use.
- Mod Organizer - great name, clear intent (indicated by the name), intuitive UI (to the extent that modding these games can itself be called 'intuitive') , massively extendable
- Wrye Mash/Bash/Smash - ambiguous name/intent, highly utilitarian and functional for games it supports, technically extendable but not intuitively so in the least, and the UI is only clear to people that know it and how Bethesda modding works. Still, it's what taught power users how Bethesda modding works and served as the backbone of what kinds of functionality should be shipped in a properly-functioning mod manager for these games.
- Vortex - ambiguous name/intent, intuitive UI, very extendable, wasteful and bulky UI but a reliable and functional mod manager. Maybe the best to date for novice and veteran modders alike.
- Nexus Mod Manager - great name, unreliable mod manager. Why not resurrect this ????????????????
- Nexus Mods App - ambiguous/redundant name, ambiguous intent. Will it be focused on branding or functionality? My guess is the former. As long as MO is maintained, we'll never use this beast, whatever it will turn out to be. Nexus keeps changing it's mod managers and has been haphazardly for 20-ish years. They've always been late to the party in that regard. It's only in the last 8 years or so that Nexus has exposed its realization of the importance of a reliable mod manager in bolstering its service model. Modding-community leaders have ALWAYS realized the importance, beginning with Wrye. Let's break this one down a bit, since it's the proposed new brand for Nexus:
- What is this website? "Nexus Mods"- What's this website's app? "Nexus Mods App" (duh)
- What's this website's app do? Obviously, it drives the Nexus Mods website, duh! You know all the buttons, mod-page templates, and glitchy WYSYWIGs? Yeah, that's the Nexus Mods App ... they are making it way better I hear and hired a big new dev team (again) to revamp it. Sweet! So Vortex may articulate even better in the future maybe!
to open the new app for another os like linux - is a good, necessary and long term oriented move. it is important to integrate and to convince power users/gamers from this concept and functionality. that worked with mo/mo2 and it will work and convince them for the new app.
all mainstream gamers will profit from this approach. it is like developing a car. if it works for professionals and then finetuned for all it will be a success for sure! - but it must deliver more while leaving some individual flexibility how to apply.
I'm extremely pleased about the open source objective; on github the actual words are: "Nexus Mods App will always be open source" Hurrah!
And, I noticed on github that there is also a recognition and commitment (so far) to Linux. I do hope that Linux manages to stay in there. I have downloaded the app and played with it a little so will be watching (with much enthusiasm) the development. Once it gets to a state where it needs users, I'd be happy to help from a Linux perspective.
Out of curiosity, what criteria must be met for someone to be deemed a "power user?"
while you may "feel" this, can you provide some empirical proof of what it is you "feel"? Show how using vortex causes modlist management to suffer in comparison to MO2 and/or any other mod manager you care to mention, otherwise this comes off as yet another version of an opinion from someone who believes that their words supercede everyone elses and counts for something.
i ask my question as a "power user" of both MO2 and Vortex as in i've used them both extensively to manage my games for years and i know the pros and cons of both intimately and I know how to use them both equally to ensure that I can get a load order that works based on the same mods managed by two different, yet similar mod managers.
Proof - you see? no "feels".
I used both mod managers on the same mods for the same games, and can use them to create a game that loads and plays with a degree of stability.
however, i don't pretend to know it all and so i am very much engaged in hearing your experiences and seeing your proof of your assertion which doesn't include how you "feel". If you can show that using vortex does have a detrimental effect on modlist management while completely excluding the human factor then I'd really like to see it. Maybe also the vortex developers would like to see it too as it would show obvious failures that they could possibly correct?
thanks.
so that when you login to a new system or in case of a system failure all your progress will be safe
All you need to do is login and everything's will be back to how it was, Optionally all your mods will be downloaded and restored to the state they were.
I Suggest that such a feature is implemented for the sake of stability and Safety of the user's data.
this would make many of those annoying buggers who have betrayed Vortex think back on their past deeds and return to the new and Supreme Mod Manager
i may or may not be working on a mod manager but you have given me an idea
If downloading Mods is a problem, then just loading the mods into vortex and letting the user decide whether to download them or not is an even better way to go at it..., is what i would say in most cases.
Also the save games and settings can be synced without much hassle with only a simple script hook or login event