Oblivion
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  1. xtchizobr
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    Either SkyBSA no longer works at all or the Seamless OCOv2 mod is not working.  There is still a neck seam, no matter what install order, no matter which method of archive invalidation I use, no matter which mod manager (WryeBash or OBMM) I use. Since the Seamless author threw a tantrum and locked all comments back in 2019, there doesn't seem to be any options. Although archive invalidation is a terrible way of doing it, the Seamless OCOv2 mod is essentially broken permanently because of this issue.
    1. starlessmao81ac
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      Or something is wrong in your installation 
    2. StickyNarwhal
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      This is the problem with mod managers, with downloaders. Nobody wants to learn what 7z is, or archive compression, or the file asset layout of these games and thus it becomes "the problem" of the mod author. Thus Todd wins and we end up with more soul diarrhea like Starfield and paid mods.
    3. vbcnthfkmnth123
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      Seamless OCOv2 is essentially a  seamless body, with a seamless head, seamless textures(for this body and this head for vanilla races(OCOv2))s and a seamless clothes and armor replacer. If you miss minimum one thing, then it will not work.
    4. kdimi11
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      Seamless OCOv2 as also SkyBSA are both working just fine, none is broken at all!

      It is the most idiot version out there, for body replacers to use, yet people still do not read instructions, or some mod guides, and such, their installation seem to not work for obvious reasons - well, not so obvious to them, of course.

      Load order, archive invalidation in your mod manager + SkyBSA, other requirements pre-installed, and even, make sure, that you've uninstalled any other body replacers previous of installing it. If yours is not working, then uninstall all, and start with all basic requirements of a good mod setup, only then install first OCOv2 and after that, install Seamless OCOv2, following in load order. If you get the load order or installation steps wrong, that's when you see seams.

      If one has read at least some of the descriptions / instructions written, one will know, that seams can't be eliminated to a 100% extend anyway, because of how it's separate meshes and how they align. In some specific lighting conditions, you'll be able to still identify some seam once in a while. Also, some body setups may do this. If your own player still shows seams, you may also have refresh it through the console.

      Unless you haven't checked all this (and maybe some more), and excluded any and all possible faults on your side, a mod cannot be yet considered broken.

      Honestly, I would have also had deactivated comments, if it were my mod. People are just not willing to spend a little time to CREATE something to play (because modding has actually some parallels to the creation of a game, even if far-fetched, still a somewhat big custom-made mod setup, does require a little effort on someone's side, as also some knowledge!).
  2. mrripley9
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    I have spent ALL DAY trying to figure out what I did wrong to make OCOv2 and seamless not work until I came upon this. Sweet merciful God, THANK YOU SIR.
  3. kdimi11
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    It still works and is absolutely required for several mods to work properly, as also perfectly safe to use, in 2024.

    An absolute must-have for every mod installation. Even if you're using Mod Organizer 2 or Wrye Bash or both. Install this too.
  4. Incudust
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    Does wrye bash take care of the bsa issue, or is this mod still needed even for wrye bash users?
  5. Vaclu
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    A MUST HAVE mod. If you are using stutter remover drop it for display tweaks so you can install this, it is much better anyways. 
  6. ronyalan
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    without a doubt the most important mod if you are going to add graphic quality to oblivion

    it works perfectly 10/10
  7. DarthDaedric
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    For some reason, when I install this mod, the burned out building next to the church in Kvatch glitches out depending on the direction I face. The textures end up all bluish gray. I tried disabling every mod and tried removing every BSA (barring the base Oblivion ones, but including all official DLC and Expansions) and every file from the Meshes and Textures folders. No fix. Only removing this dll from my OBSE plugins fixes it. I never saw this problem any place else, but I didn't play through the entire game with it, only like a third, probably (I did a lot of quests and exploring prior to going to Kvatch).

    Oh, and my first thought was it was my NVIDIA card, so I tested the same area on my Steam Deck (which is AMD based) to no luck, still there if I use skybsa.
    1. chambcra
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      I've seen the exact thing you're talking about in Kvatch. This is a known trouble with a known fix. See the post here: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/12765501-why-is-the-shipwreck-glowing-orange/
      The bad nif files are easy to fix. The nif in Kvatch is \Data\meshes\architecture\kvatch\woodbarricade.nif. The shipwreck in the other post is at the mouth of the Panther River (cell 27, -15).

      It will be interesting to find out why it only happens to you with SkyBsa.
  8. matias9122
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    For some reason when I install this dll, the game closes as soon as I get the dlc notifications. But when I remove it, the game doesn't close anymore, but I still get the errors that this dll fixes. Any Solution? (Sorry, my English is bad).
  9. Kranked
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    Do I just install with MO2 or do I drop it in the game folder?
    1. chambcra
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      I don't know if MO2 would do it but it's not a regular Oblivion mod with an esp. It's a OBSE plugin so it goes in ...\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins\SkyBSA.dll along with the required obse.
  10. chambcra
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    I had the idea that with SkyBsa I could put all the loose files of the Unofficial Oblivion Patch into a bsa file and it would work. It seems to be working for me. So, I asked at Unofficial Oblivion Patch why not upload this for the public and Arthmoor said it won't work because all mods would have to be repackaged. I don't understand this and the way I interpret the description page of SkyBsa is the Unofficial Oblivion Patch will not work at all for everyone who installed Oblivion through Steam if they don't have SkyBsa or a mod manager that fixes it. Any thoughts or explanations?
    1. AllisterHenderson
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      Are you able to confirm that a BSA-packed UOP still functions as intended when using SkyBSA...and is still working with other mods that haven't been "repackaged"...
    2. chambcra
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      It was my belief that BSA-packed UOP would require SkyBSA because I thought "replacers" had to be loose files . . . until SkyBSA came along. I checked one UOP fix with my UOP bsa. It was the sound of a hollowed stump in the IC market. I listened to the sound before and after and when that was working I assumed the whole thing was working. The fact that UOP (bsa version) fixes the disappearing problem of my airships has been tested to death almost.
      and is still working with other mods that haven't been "repackaged"...
      That is the million dollar question. I still don't know what is a mod that would have to be repackaged or why it would have to be repackaged or exactly what does repackage mean. It sounded like Arthmoor said it means with a bsa file instead of loose files but I'm not positive. I would be happy to test anything but I'm not crazy about dumping thousands of loose files into my data folder. Any mods with loose files I make my own bsa. Because my bsa version was working for me I uploaded it for an optional file here with an explanation about it on the description page. If you have loose file mods and could test it that would be a good test. LenaWolfBravil was telling me she had some strange effect with skybsa and she has the GOG version of Oblivion which is why UOP bsa version works without skybsa for her. What do you think?
    3. AllisterHenderson
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      Thanks for the feedback Chambcra, it is definitely a lot more tidy using BSA's rather than lose files, so I will use your BSA version of UOP that you uploaded here..... I suppose you have to keep an eye out though in case UOP gets updated again. SkyBSA is great because with Wrye-Bash you can have everything in BSA's and conflicting files inside BSA's will override each other based on install order, that's strange about LenaWolfBravil having trouble with SkyBSA... maybe it has something to do with the version of OBSE being used...she is very helpful and friendly, so I might check with her   

      PS... Your Skyship looks very cool, I remember you talking about doing a Skyship a while back... I don't know how I missed its recent publication...Nexus is being a bit weird lately not showing recent posts for me.
    4. chambcra
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      Thank you for your feedback as well AllisterHenderson. There is one more piece to this puzzle I should add in here. The date (think load order) of the esp of the most recent UOP download is 11/1/2021. The date of the UOP esp I downloaded in 2016 was 12/8/2006. With the 11/1/2021 date I got immediate crashing. I changed the date to 12/8/2006 and no more crashing. The 2006 date is what I uploaded. I posted on the UOP forum about this and there has not been a reply. Maybe my crashing was because I was using my bsa version. Maybe the recent date is fine for people with loose files and a mod manager. I don't know anything about mod managers. Can you explain how Wrye-Bash fits in here? I thought SkyBSA did the trick so everything can be in bsa's.

      LenaWolfBravil said it was just something funny, not really a confirmed trouble. I agree she is very helpful. She has found a fix for my airships so they don't disappear without UOP. Soon there will be an update for both airships and UOP will no longer be recommended.

      The possibility of UOP in BSA form is still of interest to me but with all the different mod managers and different versions of the game I don't know if there will ever be a concise answer.

      Thanks for your comment on the Skyship. I have noticed that Nexus has been a bit weird too and I have missed some things I would have been interested in.

      Thanks
    5. AllisterHenderson
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      That is an interesting observation Chambcra.
      Well with Wrye-Bash, once you set the load order that you want, there is a feature in Wrye-Bash that automatically changes the dates in chronological order, where the 1st mod in the load order has the earliest date and the last mod in the load order has the latest date. I believe this was to get around the fact that if you had a conflicting resource (texture/mesh/etc) in multiple BSAs, the latest date stamp will override an earlier date stamp. So a possible explanation for your observation is with the 2021 date stamp when the UOP BSA had a conflict with another mod loaded further down that is supposed to override UOP.... it isn't overriding because UOP has a later date stamp and so those resources are being loaded.... whereas in the 'loose files' version the date doesn't matter and will override exclusively according to the plugins load order........ The only problem with this theory is I was under the impression that SkyBSA eliminates the need for date stamping..... so maybe SkyBSA is malfunctioning with the latest version of xOBSE. SkyBSA was made to work with the original OBSE not the latest xOBSE.
    6. chambcra
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      That all sounds good to me. Your explanation of Wrye-Bash might be why I'm the only one who has had a problem with the date. I might be the only person who doesn't have a mod manager. I can't think of anything I have that should be overriding UOP but it's possible.

      I'm also under the impression that SkyBSA eliminates the need for date stamping. From the description:
      In Skyrim, "loose files," or files that aren't packaged in a BSA, will always override files in a BSA.
      and SkyBSA is supposed to mimic Skyrim so . . . I've run out of theories. I'm glad you have this documented here for future reference in case I ever have to come back for further study.
    7. StickyNarwhal
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      Don't trust anything he says. 
    8. PsymonPrime
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      I asked Lena and she said it was the OBSE pluggy, which was the conflict. Pluggy is probably the most problematic of all OBSE plugins, though I've heard OBME may be next after that. Even the readme for pluggy says to use as early a version as possible because the authors knew it was becoming less stable with more functions.

      And you guys seem to have no sense of history or perspective. Arthmoor is awesome ... Love that guy, even though he would be the last guy on earth to let you know that he is actually on your side. You try taking over the caretaking of the main mod that fixes Oblivion issues for the computer version. Often the first mod most are pointed to - and fielding countless inquiries and bugs and then not develop a healthy ability to say no and put down a boundary. Not trying to speak for him but an understanding of archive invalidation and the history of workarounds that probably still necessitates loose files as not as many understand it and certainly not the new mod users and those used whatever the hell zenimax is doing with mods, because you know ... consoles and mods aren't historically of the same bed.

      As I understand it .. if resources are packed in a BSA and there is conflicting file path in another BSA then the later loading resource in a BSA wins. However. with archive invalidation (which was originally a mod, now just a feature in wrye bash) makes it so that all loose files take precedence. The packaging into BSAs historically was a method some modders used to make their mods load resources no matter what but only taking load order into account not archive invalidation ... just like path redirection was another method.

      So say a person uses wrye bash or another inferior installer that has archive invalidation and they use Sky BSA, or they don't use bash and they do use skybsa. Either way if the UOP is expected to take precedence it is better that they are loose .. to cover all instances ... manual is the smartest way to install, but also the fastest way to get lost when it comes to stuff like this.

      Chambcra ... if you are afraid of dumping files into the data folder .. don't! Use the installer designed to assist manual installation to do it for you. That way install order and load order can become two separate things to control. If you install all mods with BAIN it will track all the loose files from every mod and allow you to swap out which file wins which is controlled by adjusting install order.

      By the way ... I dig your skyships. they are great for touring new provinces. Thank you.
    9. chambcra
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      Thanks PsymonPrime for the lengthy discussion. To be clear, I never meant anything derogatory or anything to be said derogatory about Arthmoor. If he says a bsa won't work for UOP that's good enough for me.

      I can see what you're saying here: "Either way if the UOP is expected to take precedence it is better that they are loose .. to cover all instances ... ". Maybe that's the crux of it. That's good enough for me too.

      Loose files are okay if there aren't too many or if they are all under a unique folder name but 10,000 loose files are not manageable without a mod manager. In the beginning I didn't want some program to be screwing around with my data folder so I did everything manually and that's what I'm still doing today. It was because I had all the loose files of UOP in my data folder that I couldn't add any more (I'd never get them back out). If a quest mod doesn't have a bsa I make one myself (takes less than a minute). If the load order needs changing I use FileDate. I don't want to imply there's anything wrong with mod managers, I'm just too lazy to learn how to use one. Today I don't use UOP but if I ever needed it again I would add it in the bsa form I made. I was only asking about UOP in a bsa because at the time UOP was improving my airships but now that Lena helped me fix the airships so UOP is not needed I don't have to worry these technical details that seem beyond my grasp.

      Thanks for the link to your "Tome of Psymon". I'll keep that in mind for future reference if I ever really need a mod manager (huge amount of info there). And thanks for commenting on the Skyships. It's good to hear they are working for you.
    10. PsymonPrime
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      don't sweat it ... Arthmoor's got thick scales. He's cool. Like I said perspective. It just is the case that mods with this line of games is squarely and only out of the PC user of the game. The needs of the PC gamer was way different than that of consoles and stuff, not saying that is you. On the other hand the fear of 1000s of loose files. You mean like all windows OS's are like? 1000s of lose files is ideal if you get into using texture replacers where you can further customize what is presented in a bsa. I keep seeing notions that wrye bash installer, BAIN, is like a mod organizer or OBMM... it is more like a tool for assisting manual installation. Better to think of it as a highly effective mod remover, when you are on the other side and regretting having put 1000s of files in and thinking about removing them. BAIN can even tell you what loose files conflict with what other loose files from other mods and gives you the power to rearrange the install order. BSAs hide all that. The point being that there are definite advantages to loose files as well and often preferred in many instances. I can get how mod makers want all their stuff self contained. Makes sense and is the smart way to go about it, but the mind of a mod user is different in that they want to mod mods too. Loose files allows that, while bsa's can be more work for ... mostly for the mod user who also mods mods of mods mod user .... hows that? I think I exhausted that answer. Apologies ...wordy. Just getting back into this myself.
    11. chambcra
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      That's cool. I don't understand this question: "You mean like all windows OS's are like?"

      It's not so much fear of 1000s of loose files it's more like a PITA. I like nice tidy compact data folder. I'm working on a quest mod with custom meshes and textures and those have to be loose to work in the CS. That's why I have to have nice and tidy. If I had 1000s of loose files I couldn't keep track of my own stuff. I use Oblivion Mod Manager a lot for the utility to extract single files from bsa's. I've read Wrye Bash has some good utilities I may need some day but haven't yet. I know I'm the oddball and might actually be the only person who doesn't use a mod manager.

      I know it's been debunked but I still think a single bsa will load faster than 1000s of loose files. The best thing about bsa's though is that you don't need a mod manager. I hear what you're sayin' though. Loose is good/necessary too. I like to keep the amount as low as possible.

      BTW: I just did a test and DistantLOD files are working in a bsa with SkyBsa.

      No problem with wordy. A good discussion is good and I could keep going but I should stop and see what you say.

      One thing I didn't figure out yet is this: "I asked Lena and she said it was the OBSE pluggy, which was the conflict."
      What is the conflict exactly? I've lost track.
      Thanks
    12. PsymonPrime
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      Ask her ... that is all I know. It was a requirement for something she didn't keep I think. It has been a ctd magnet since after the first revisions of it. It conflicts in odd manners (aka as scripts) with much and is unstable.

      Glad to hear discussion is acceptable ... I apologize if that came across heavy handed. It is just there is so much history and ...after having returned a decade on from when I was last active. Kind of a bummer that things like Wrye Bash is still .... still ... feared and not utilized due to heavy misunderstanding of what it can do, which is very much a lot, or just whatever you want to use.

      And I totally get how a mod maker wants to make it as clean and neat as possible. So they can be self contained ... in my load order. See that is my point. Like it or not mod users have final say on how your mod is used - when it is installed in their game. BSAs make it so replacers can override them.

      There are many facets to it, and a mod installer is a tool primarily for the mod user, if done in a way that can be of use to them. then it can be a tool for a mod maker. Your mods are all good. Best to keep those kinds of mods in simple structures. the complex packaging is really more about catering to choices .. or if you are a power mod user ... organizing and reducing the amount of packages in your mod database or bash installers etc.  How many times have you downloaded a mod and then it was so poorly named you had to go back to the download page and review the parts ... more than once?

      I will be working on a pictorial update to that guide .. maybe, more interested in doing one for MPGUI and TES4LL. The BSA is just another name for an archive like a rar or zip and it is compressed. So some used to consider that decompressing Oblivion bsa and then repackaging uncompressed was the way to go, but most thought that was grasping at straws with negligible advantage. Something folks did as a kind of placebo. I mean just because it is in a bsa doesn't mean that what is referenced in it isn't being sorted through. Of course i don't know how much is known now about how optimized Oblivion is to do that versus loose - but whether loose or in a bsa if it is different than what is in vanilla in terms of folder path ... that is a redirect. Processing overhead not within the Cognitive Firing Rate of the average human.

      The point about windows OS is because look at it...1000s of loose files, that came in cab and similar form, but end up getting dumped into mess that is windows. Not much different.

      My point being would you rather deal with 1000s of files that if installed with an installer like BAIN can then be swapped out with a few nob twiddles or fully removed without having to uninstall those parts then by hand reinstall. It is a tool that teaches what manual installing is then cuts down on all the work of having to sort ... sort ...sort. the thing is you still have to - just up front is ideal.

      have a goon one
    13. chambcra
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      It's not heavy handed at all but a good discussion. You have some good points. I never thought mod users might prefer loose file so they can tinker with or use part of easier. If I ever finish my mod I might have to learn about mod managers just because that's what everybody else uses. I've had Wrye Bash downloaded and I've looked at it several times but it always looks too complicated. I've seen many references to some nifty utilities it has that I may need some day but haven't yet.

      At one point I was almost going to have to use MPGUI and TES4LL to get my new land terrain LOD working but I finally got it working with tes4qlod and tes4Gecko. That's funny you mention that and good so now I know who I can ask if I ever need it and can't get it working.

      Would you believe I have decompressed my Oblivion bsa's. I agree it's probably just a placebo but when you're old and have some time on your hands it happens. There's also that computers are so much faster today than 2006 that a rational person wouldn't worry about trying to optimize.

      Is Bain part of Wrye Bash or is that something else that does the same thing?

      Take it easy.
    14. PsymonPrime
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      BAIN stands for BAsh INstaller ... it is the installers tab of he wrye bash platform. Here is the best readme Collection online I was there at inception of it. I was about the earliest adapter to it that you are gonna find. Ask away or PM is probably best way for me to notice.

      As far as Wrye Bash goes ... Get the stand alone version, not the python version ..unless you are already rocking all kinds of python on you system then you'd already know. If you open the bash 7z you will see a Mopy folder .. extract that into your Oblivion Folder next to the data folder. Open that folder and click on wrye bash. It will create an installers folder to put all your ready to use mods in a folder next to the Oblivion folder .. depending on version where that is. You can rename the bash_default.ini to bash. ini and then adjust your pathing for where those installers are. I game on a solid state, I don't want to put 300 gb of data for just mods that are the installers not what is installed, so I moved that to another drive where all my mods are for all games. Leaving the game drive to just that.

      I will be getting around to writing a tutorial for a few utilities, but I tend toward being thorough and after returning to this scene .... I'm not even sure what is the best place to post something like that. Taking my time... writing tutorials while your game doesn't work is a drag.

      BSA are the safest bet, the advantage of loose files though is being able to see what is overwritten by other mods. It was a fashion for a short while back ... I don't know 12 years ago - to release two variants one in a bsa and another out of the bsa. For sure an even longer tradition exists of having a major release in a BSA with updates loose.

      In BAIN and, I'm assuming other mature installers. - though I've never used MO2 or anything. If it really is the successor to OBMM ... then I don't want it. OBMM was known as a black box installer. Making scripts for it to also hide the work that goes into modding a game from the mod users perspective. That said BAIN offers a few varieties of scripted installs, so easy to cast stones.

      I would imagine that archive invalidation works and worked fine enough, to me it is either this or that. Either will do fine. The deal with the dates on the loose files are easily solved by running wrye bash redate  function OR use  LOOT or probably another installer. These will redate the esp and esm, but not the loose files. I'm not certain that they redate the BSA files or if it ever caused that much issue to not do so. This is just the final solution...I use it for sure.
    15. chambcra
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      Okay, sounds good. One of these days I'll try the stand alone version. It sounds like a big project though, just like tes4ll which I'm reluctant to install if I can't find clear instructions on how to use it for a single new world space.

      There's one thing I've looked for a few times and I can't find it. I want to use tes4ll to create the distand lod meshes for a single custom world space from my esp. I can't find the command line, document, manual, parameter description, how to do it for a single world space. It would be like the "man" command in unix is what I need.
      Something like:
      tes4ll.exe -MyEspName -MyWorldSpaceName -TheDetaiLevel

      Thanks
    16. Arthmoor
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      Since it's been brought up, I'd like to clarify that when I said mods would need to be repackaged, it's the only way you'll avoid a chaotic end result. It doesn't HAVE to be done, but half-assing the job by only packing some things and not others won't end well.

      The other thing which I failed to mention is that packing it as a BSA would impose a hard requirement on not only OBSE, but also SkyBSA. That's not something we'd ever do regardless of the utility of it. So the UOP will continue to be distributed in loose file format. We have no intention of separately maintaining a BSA version - nor has anyone else been given permission to do this either.
    17. chambcra
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      Okay, I see your reasoning and it makes sense. I appreciate the huge job you're doing and anybody can make their own BSA so there's no reason why you should have to bother with it. Also,  PsymonPrime pointed out some significant advantages to loose files which I guess most people prefer.
      Thanks