Don't get me wrong. Bethesda is famous for making most their games modder friendly. Which in most cases is why they get a lot of traffic in them. I can only hope they learned from ALL their scripting mistakes with Fallout, and Oblivion games, and will give us an extremely less buggier game after testing. Please, Please no more corrupted saves, Navmesh bugs, and just plain crashes. The only reason Bethesda games are so popular is do to the modders.
I am sick and tired of Bethesda giving us an unfinish buggy mess of their games. I guess they figure: "Lets just half ass the release, and let the modders fix our shit." We can only hope this might all changed, but it is highly unlikely. They got this far for giving us junk games all the time, why changed now? I also am looking forward to a possible Fallout 4 release. I hope it will not be the usual junk Bethesda releases. Also on topic I did not get a ESO key yet. Most likely I won't. I just hope upon release of ESO after testing we do not have the familiar half assed game. So Please test the hell out of it.
Do you really think that Beth purposely puts out buggy games so modders can fix them? I think they allow modders, aside from attracting gamers who can diversify their gaming experience, to also contribute to the effort in exchange for allowing modding of their games. Seems like a fair trade to me, in that sense anyway.
Beth games are not the only ones that have issues with bugs and scripting woes while releasing a toolsets for use in modding their games. Bioware is noted for releasing buggy games with toolsets available for them (BG1&2, NWN, DA:O) as well as the various games developed by Black Isle Studios (which became Obsidian).
We PC gamers should be glad we get the toolset support on PC that we do with these games. Consider what console gamers go through, especially with what the Skyrim experience was for the PS3 crowd.
@Tommy6860: I think there is some merit to that idea. Bethesda has 19+ years experience making open world games like this, and even now they can't produce a game that wasn't full of bugs and other issues. In fact, did you happen to see this quote when Skyrim launched?
"Skyrim is not a flawless game by any measure, but where fans of other titles might rise up against rampant glitches and shoddy programming, this impassioned community has embraced it." - Kotaku
Think about that statement for a second. Why are Elder Scrolls fans identified like this, as people who will accept incomplete products? Because through the last three major releases, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim, Bethesda's community has shown it will gladly overlook bad programming and poorly Q&A tested games because at the end of it all, we can fix it, with the tools Bethesda gives us because they support modders. We are doing their jobs for them, and we're touted in the media as being happy to do it.
So, yes. This many games in, I'm fairly certain Bethesda knows they can put out a poorly tested product and get away with it, because the community is almost expected to finish the job for them, and then with the next game, the cycle continues. Until, that is, enough people decide to hold Bethesda accountable for releasing incomplete products.
There are bugs in MS Word. It's been around forever.
Skyrim is an INSANELY complicated, open sandbox. Programming is one thing when the outcome is predictable, but in an open world?!? I'm amazed it works as well as it does.
Wait for bug free, Means never playing the game!
And modding hasn't fixed my skyrim, it's just given me re-playability, making it different each time.
skyrim is not complicated, look at watchdogs comming out soon, huge city larger than skyrim with all its dlc combined, only been in development for 4 years plus ive got freinds in the testing branch that let me have the honor of playing its beta, wich is not even buggy after 30 minutes of play. and going to be alot more playable, better graphics and completly open world with unlimited play and possibiltys,no bugs no corrupt saves issues and the first title the dev ever done a game that huge with open world. and it dosent need mods to make it not crash and corrupt saves. bethesda either don't care or they have no development skills compared to the more known developers.
really? Skyrim isn't so complicated compare with Sleeping dogs, watch dogs, GTA , Saints Row games, Dragon Age Origin. these games obviously have bugs too but they don't bother the end user very much. in Skyrim bugs start from the saving function. beside Bethesda took nearly 5 years to develop Skyrim so what they have done so long? beside there is no huge different between Skyrim and Oblivion so we can assume they copy paste most of the contents from the Oblivion. so apparently they didn't work hard very well for Skyrim. Skyrim is now 40$ in Steam and it still has so many bugs and restrictions for implementing mods. if it's free we can tolerate it but this is a commercial software. so don't be so errand boy type please. you should be in the consumers' side not in their side.
thats youre opinion wich is fine for you, but Bethesda could do a game that has only a couple verry minor bugs instead of thousands of major crashing issues and a verry outdated engine with minor tweaks that break more than they fix. ive played a lot of games with more open world than skyrim has. with few to no bugs and no ctds. they just don't have modding capability. but they don't need it. i was only stating my points and opinion as a non fanboy gamer that try's to look at all aspects of a game. and rate it based on playability and stability which is what true gamers want and deserve. dont get me wrong, skyrim has a lot of great features and is fun for a while, i just want to see the series and its developer become less buggy and more stable in the future so the series dont become a thing of the past. developer has finaly started making bigger game worlds with little to no bugs, wich is what bethesda will have to do to keep up with the modern day gaming industry. look at gta 4, i played it for 8 hourse stright one day and it never glitched or crashed one time. look at the gothic series, not a single ctd, same with red dead redmption, no crashing huge map. this is what gamers deserve with skyrim. more testing and fixing before release is the key. verry simple to fix.
How many open end games are there ? Not many single player ones for sure , and it is only a illussion you are still bound to the limits of the program and of your PC, and yes bethesda always had a bit of a reputatuon of delivering us buggy and gluthcy games Even in the world of MMO s there are only a few open ended sandbox games only one i can think of right now is EVE online ( because i play that one) in my opinion the rarity of open ended games is to blame on o,eside the themepark mentallity of alot of new gammers who insist that the developers hold their hands and on the other side the design challenges for developers creating this game engine just be glad we have the elder scrolls and the modding community to improve what already is a rare gem in what is otherwise a pretty grey and onesided world of singleplyer games
skyrim is not complicated, look at watchdogs comming out soon, huge city larger than skyrim with all its dlc combined, only been in development for 4 years plus ive got freinds in the testing branch that let me have the honor of playing its beta, wich is not even buggy after 30 minutes of play. and going to be a lot more playable, better graphics and completly open world with unlimited play and possibiltys,no bugs no corrupt saves issues and the first title the dev ever done a game that huge with open world. and it dosent need mods to make it not crash and corrupt saves. bethesda either don't care or they have no development skills compared to the more known developers.
you've got to be kidding!
While there have been some crazy bugs in Bethesda's games, but there's nothing else out there that comes even close in terms of openness, mod-ability, and storyline - all in one package.
it's having all of that in there that makes the Elder Scrolls games so awesome. Watchdogs looks like a mix between GTA IV and Deus Ex Human Revolution (both games I think highly of btw), but there's no way you're going to have as open an environment as Skyrim in it. You're buying into the hype to believe otherwise. To say there'll be no bugs is just flat-out naive. I defy you to find ANY game that came out in the last... forever... that's been bug-free.
thats youre opinion wich is fine for you, but Bethesda could do a game that has only a couple verry minor bugs instead of thousands of major crashing issues and a verry outdated engine with minor tweaks that break more than they fix. ive played alot of games with more open world than skyrim has. with few to no bugs and no ctds. they just don't have modding capability. but they don't need it. i was only stating my points and opinion as a non fanboy gamer that try's to look at all aspects of a game. and rate it based on playability and stability which is what true gamers want and deserve. dont get me wrong, skyrim has alot of great features and is fun for a while, i just want to see the series and its developer become less buggy and more stable in the future so the series dont become a thing of the past. developer has finaly started making bigger game worlds with little to no bugs, wich is what bethesda will have to do to keep up with the modern day gaming industry. look at gta 4, i played it for 8 hourse stright one day and it never glitched or crashed one time. look at the gothic series, not a single ctd, same with red dead redmption, no crashing huge map. this is what gamers deserve with skyrim. more testing and fixing before release is the key. verry simple to fix.
I'd care if they hadn't totally abandoned the formula that made ES:S and it's predecessors a winning combination and if this weren't just another cash in on a franchise name to exploit the fact consumers are oblivious and sycophantic when it comes to fanboy logic. Look at Sim City's recent situation, on the heels of Diablo 3 and with a lateral relation to the similar fan boy exploitation of War Z.
You'll buy it because it's ES related. It's nothing like Skyrim, and only has text on a screen and the odd graphic in common. If they sold us Skyrim 2UP DLC for $500 a pop they'd sell more gross than they would of this MMO as far as longevity beyond first sale period goes. Look at GW2 and the squandered potential there.
They've been told by everyone they hired to alpha test that their concept is flawed and they should be looking at ways to turn Skyrim as an engine, concept, and game into an MMO concept of sorts. There has been little positive feedback from any alpha testers I've spoken to (sadly I didn't get a chance to, although I do quite often get to alpha and beta test some awesome stuff, @bashpr0mpt on Twitter if you want to suss it out!), so I'm not holding my breath.
I still long for 2UP Skyrim just to play with a single solitary friend, but given the only multiplayer mod developed to date is glorified IRC I won't hold my breath for that one either. .__.
The main problem whit MMO games is that you lost the Im hero felling of single player games ... for example if you played "Star wars knight of the old republic" you had that felling of being a jedi that must save the galaxy and defeat the sith empire and was awesome n_n
but if you play the MMO game "The old republic" ... you fell like Just one more of the 100000 jedis doing the same mission so you lost that amazing felling of being a hero
In my opinion a great example of HOW an MMO game must be made its Guild wars 2 ... its an great game where you are actually just an small part of a huge thing but everything fit in its place and you fell great just doing your part to defeat massive enemies n_n
I payed £44.95 for SWTOR i payed for one months subscription then played it for 2 hours then uninstalled it and never played since. I was an avid fan of KOTOR 1 & 2, i use to mod those games. SWTOR failed fast to meet its targets financially, just goes to show that taking the MMO route has a 50/50 chance of being a very expensive mistake no matter how good the devs might think it is. I suppose that's why Beth won't put their name to it, "here, Zen, you do it" lol.
yeah, with a diffrent investment they would have had the chance to create something more substantial with multiplayer on steam, then what we have now, which is (more or less) just another rehash of what we had before.
Both titles you mention arn't even out yet, Skyrim is running on a modified version of a very old engine, Bethesdas engine has done them well and lasted them for quite some time. It allowed them to do things that other tech at the time didn't allow.
New Developers using new technology are now able to create massive worlds and I do think its time Bethesda done the same thing, they need to stop tweaking their old system and finally make a completely new one for the TES games
not exacly, true, they dont need tht engine to make the game be like it is, there are many other graphics engines out there that are used in game development that allow game worlds far larger than skyrim, for example, the upcoming watchdogs game,plus the upcoming grand theft auto 5 game which are just one city plus a few small areas in gta 5. in watchdogs the gameworld is the size of skyrim and oblivions maps put together, plus watchdogs is not going to be filled with bugs, and gta is suppose to do the same by creating their delay of release wich i respect. which skyrim also needed but did not get. i have personally played watchdogs current beta version thanks to my freind that is a tester for that developer. the watchdogs beta i played for 30 minutes and had no bugs. only got half way across the map on it aswell. its all about the effort and ability's of the developer's when it comes to quality and immersion. the engine is suppose to be fixed are replaced before futher development then tested again to see if its still buggy. don't get me wrong, skyrim is a great game, i like playing it sometimes. i just hope the next elder scrolls game stays in development longer and is completely tested instead of just plain Rushed and shoved away to release on a cool date. i want to see Bethesda become the top developer and the most loved, not the buggiest and a xbox before others.
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A moderator has closed this comment topic for the time beingI am sick and tired of Bethesda giving us an unfinish buggy mess of their games. I guess they figure: "Lets just half ass the release, and let the modders fix our shit." We can only hope this might all changed, but it is highly unlikely. They got this far for giving us junk games all the time, why changed now? I also am looking forward to a possible Fallout 4 release. I hope it will not be the usual junk Bethesda releases. Also on topic I did not get a ESO key yet. Most likely I won't. I just hope upon release of ESO after testing we do not have the familiar half assed game. So Please test the hell out of it.
Beth games are not the only ones that have issues with bugs and scripting woes while releasing a toolsets for use in modding their games. Bioware is noted for releasing buggy games with toolsets available for them (BG1&2, NWN, DA:O) as well as the various games developed by Black Isle Studios (which became Obsidian).
We PC gamers should be glad we get the toolset support on PC that we do with these games. Consider what console gamers go through, especially with what the Skyrim experience was for the PS3 crowd.
"Skyrim is not a flawless game by any measure, but where fans of other titles might rise up against rampant glitches and shoddy programming, this impassioned community has embraced it." - Kotaku
Think about that statement for a second. Why are Elder Scrolls fans identified like this, as people who will accept incomplete products? Because through the last three major releases, Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim, Bethesda's community has shown it will gladly overlook bad programming and poorly Q&A tested games because at the end of it all, we can fix it, with the tools Bethesda gives us because they support modders. We are doing their jobs for them, and we're touted in the media as being happy to do it.
So, yes. This many games in, I'm fairly certain Bethesda knows they can put out a poorly tested product and get away with it, because the community is almost expected to finish the job for them, and then with the next game, the cycle continues. Until, that is, enough people decide to hold Bethesda accountable for releasing incomplete products.
http://livewareblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/liveware-conundrum-modding/comment-page-1/#comment-355
ALL SOFTWARE HAS BUGS.
There are bugs in MS Word.
It's been around forever.
Skyrim is an INSANELY complicated, open sandbox. Programming is one thing when the outcome is predictable, but in an open world?!? I'm amazed it works as well as it does.
Wait for bug free, Means never playing the game!
And modding hasn't fixed my skyrim, it's just given me re-playability, making it different each time.
Skyrim is now 40$ in Steam and it still has so many bugs and restrictions for implementing mods. if it's free we can tolerate it but this is a commercial software. so don't be so errand boy type please. you should be in the consumers' side not in their side.
How many open end games are there ?
Not many single player ones for sure , and it is only a illussion you are still bound to the limits of the program and of your PC, and yes bethesda always had a bit of a reputatuon of delivering us buggy and gluthcy games
Even in the world of MMO s there are only a few open ended sandbox games only one i can think of right now is EVE online ( because i play that one)
in my opinion the rarity of open ended games is to blame on o,eside the themepark mentallity of alot of new gammers who insist that the developers hold their hands and on the other side the design challenges for developers creating this game engine
just be glad we have the elder scrolls and the modding community to improve what already is a rare gem in what is otherwise a pretty grey and onesided world of singleplyer games
you've got to be kidding!
While there have been some crazy bugs in Bethesda's games, but there's nothing else out there that comes even close in terms of openness, mod-ability, and storyline - all in one package.
it's having all of that in there that makes the Elder Scrolls games so awesome. Watchdogs looks like a mix between GTA IV and Deus Ex Human Revolution (both games I think highly of btw), but there's no way you're going to have as open an environment as Skyrim in it. You're buying into the hype to believe otherwise. To say there'll be no bugs is just flat-out naive. I defy you to find ANY game that came out in the last... forever... that's been bug-free.
You'll buy it because it's ES related. It's nothing like Skyrim, and only has text on a screen and the odd graphic in common. If they sold us Skyrim 2UP DLC for $500 a pop they'd sell more gross than they would of this MMO as far as longevity beyond first sale period goes. Look at GW2 and the squandered potential there.
They've been told by everyone they hired to alpha test that their concept is flawed and they should be looking at ways to turn Skyrim as an engine, concept, and game into an MMO concept of sorts. There has been little positive feedback from any alpha testers I've spoken to (sadly I didn't get a chance to, although I do quite often get to alpha and beta test some awesome stuff, @bashpr0mpt on Twitter if you want to suss it out!), so I'm not holding my breath.
I still long for 2UP Skyrim just to play with a single solitary friend, but given the only multiplayer mod developed to date is glorified IRC I won't hold my breath for that one either. .__.
but if you play the MMO game "The old republic" ... you fell like Just one more of the 100000 jedis doing the same mission so you lost that amazing felling of being a hero
In my opinion a great example of HOW an MMO game must be made its Guild wars 2 ... its an great game where you are actually just an small part of a huge thing but everything fit in its place and you fell great just doing your part to defeat massive enemies n_n
SWTOR failed fast to meet its targets financially, just goes to show that taking the MMO route has a 50/50 chance of being a very expensive mistake no matter how good the devs might think it is.
I suppose that's why Beth won't put their name to it, "here, Zen, you do it" lol.
When one thinks "SWTOR" one thinks "Titanic"
with multiplayer on steam, then what we
have now, which is (more or less)
just another rehash of what
we had before.
New Developers using new technology are now able to create massive worlds and I do think its time Bethesda done the same thing, they need to stop tweaking their old system and finally make a completely new one for the TES games