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Remiros and Greatness7

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Flash3113

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  1. Flash3113
    Flash3113
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    Another heads up as there has been a lot of confusion regarding OpenMW. OpenMW by itself doesn't have anything to do with this mod and doesn't replace its functionality in any way. This mod only replaces meshes and works absolutely fine with it. In theory the improvement should actually be even more noticable with OpenMW.
  2. Pherim
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    Amazing mod, thanks a lot. I am not active in the modding community and I am neither playing nor modding Morrowind or any other Bethesda game at the moment, but I just had to comment this. It demonstrates perfectly why Morrowind is very poorly optimized for modern systems and why OpenMW struggles to get good performance. Many people still believe that the amount of polygons is important for performance, but that hasn't been true for quite some time now. The Morrowind engine is actually pretty good when it comes to handling high-polygon objects and especially collision shapes, which unfortunately cannot be said for OpenMW (yet). However, the technical definition of what counts as an "object" is different from what the game treats as an object. A weapon, for example, is a single, indivisible object in terms of how it can be used in the game and in the construction set, but from the view of the engine, every single NiTriShape is a different object, even if more than one of them use the same texture and material. At least that's the case for OpenMW, as we cannot determine the amount of objects in view in the vanilla engine, but it's probably safe to assume that it's basically the same. Modern engines are able to batch different objects with the same material to improve performance, but I doubt that this is possible in the vanilla Morrowind engine.

    Anyway, every one of these objects cause a draw call, which is basically the CPU telling the GPU what to draw, and that's probably one of the largest bottlenecks in terms of performance. Once the GPU takes over, however, it doesn't really matter how many polygons a single object has, and one objects with many polygons is much more performance-friendly than many simple objects. Which is probably the main reason why mods that add LOD objects to the distant landscape in Oblivion are guaranteed to kill the frame rate. Fortunately, MGE XE distant land seems to be much more efficient.

    Many objects in vanilla Morrowind are badly optimized in terms of the amount of objects they consist of. Not only do many objects use quite a number of different textures, but often they are split into many NiTriShapes which use the same texture, trees for example. flora_bc_tree_01.nif consists of no less than 63 different objects and thus causes just as many draw calls, at least in OpenMW. It might be useful to conduct some testing of how the vanilla engine performs with "optimized" meshes in comparison to the vanilla ones. Anyway, I believe there is much potential for reducing draw calls in Morrowind, but many meshes and even more textures would have to be remade from scratch. As it is now, things like clothes, armors, weapons and so on often consist of several different NiTriShapes and use multiple textures. In modern games, including every Bethesda-Game since Oblivion, meshes use as few different textures as possible, and usually only one per armor, weapon, etc. It is much better for a mesh to use one large texture than several small ones, even if this texture is considerably bigger than the smaller ones combined. For some objects it may be possible to create a texture atlas out of the different textures it uses, but in many cases this would probably not be the case because of their uv maps. Also, texture replacers would no longer work. So the most logical thing to do would be to create completely new meshes and textures. Good examples are PeterBitt's Creatures or many of your own mods (of course, I am aware that you know about all of this, but maybe someone else is interested into these explanations). On the other hand, many older mods are doing just the opposite by mashing vanilla meshes together for a new object, thus further increasing the amount of Draw Calls. Unfortunately, a truly modern Morrowind in terms of graphics, from an artistic point of view as well as a technical one, will most likely remain a dream. But this mod is a good first step in the right direction. ;)
    1. CreeperLava
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      Thank you for the technical explanation, much appreciated !

      Edit : Also, thank you to Flash for the continued updates :).
  3. Zoomtra
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    This is an essential mod.....My game is twice as smooth now when I combine this with Altas....
  4. Draulius
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    When I install your meshes, it causes a CTD crash when approaching the entrance to Andrano Ancestral Tomb near Pelagiad. I have tested this on a fresh, clean install so it is not a conflict issue. I am using OpenMW.

    EDIT: Had to delete the models that use NiLODNode as explained in the post below.
    1. Flash3113
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      This is a problem with OpenMW at the moment and doesn't happen with vanilla, I might make a workaround, though.
    2. mikeprichard
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      Sorry if this is answered elsewhere, but which mod files exactly should I install (or not install) to incorporate this "OpenMW workaround" that won't cause crashes/conflicts in OpenMW? Do I simply install the latest mod version including both the "00 Core" and "01 Clean Alpha Textures" folders, and leave it at that? Or are there still problems with files in one or both of these mod folders that use NiLODNode as a parent/root node as Draulius pointed out (furn_mist256.nif, furn_mist512.nif, active_bubbles00.nif, etc.)?

      I'm hoping to use OpenMW to avoid crashes, not cause them, so any help will be appreciated - cheers!
    3. Flash3113
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      All of the OpenMW-related issues have been fixed quite a while ago. There shouldn't be any problems with OpenMW anymore.
    4. mikeprichard
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      Great, thanks for the very quick reply! Guess I can safely use all folders (00 Core, 01 Clean, possibly 02) from this mod under OpenMW.

      By the way, do you have any knowledge of the below two mods? Both are recommended for use under OpenMW per https://modding-openmw.com/, but the first is quite old, and the author of the second has made some recent comments in his mod's Nexus forum on mesh optimization and compatibility with Morrowind Optimization Patch that don't inspire confidence.

      --Mesh Fix (http://mw.modhistory.com/download-15-6088)
      --Correct Meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/39348)
    5. Flash3113
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      They are compatible as long as you install MOP last.
    6. PoodleSandwich2
      PoodleSandwich2
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      Trying to figure out what bad things would happen if you installed MOP before Correct Meshes? Thanks.
    7. mikeprichard
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      Thanks Flash! From reading the Correct Meshes forums, CM apparently doesn't optimize its meshes in the way MOP does (like vanilla Morrowind meshes, its files instead use a huge number of trishapes, which can impact performance), and there are quite a few meshes that both CM and MOP include, so installing MOP after/over CM would at least result in more optimized versions of those files being used in game. The CM author recommends installing his mod after MOP (unless playing on a smartphone where performance is more critical), but it seems it's better to do the opposite, as Flash suggests.
    8. Flash3113
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      Nothing "bad", but Correct Meshes would overwrite quite a few MOP meshes and nullify their effect.
    9. PoodleSandwich2
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      Just a case of choosing wether you want optimized meshes or ones with fixed slits and UVs etc, or Is there a chance you'd consider optimizing some if the fixed versions, or making similar fixes for MOP?
    10. mikeprichard
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      It would be amazing to see an all-in-one vanilla mesh/texture fix/optimization mod where the authors collaborate to include both fixes (e.g. from Mesh Fix (http://mw.modhistory.com/download-15-6088) and Correct Meshes (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/39348)) and optimizations (e.g. from Morrowind Optimization Patch (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45384) and Project Atlas (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45399)), as there are many overlapping files among those mods as is. Would this be possible in future?

      Thank you for your work!
  5. potatochip
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    Wow, the difference in frame rate is pretty stark. I wish I had thought of the alpha textures causing issues ages ago, they really are the biggest culprit if you're using OpenMW or MGEXE with distant lands visible. Morrowind's alphas are nice but they're very resource intensive and this mod addresses that perfectly, well done. In my case we're talking almost double the frames in the west gash region. Just throw on some supersampling to handle the crisp edges of flora and it looks great.
  6. Pop00100
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    What does the lake Fjalding anti-suck files actually do?
    1. Flash3113
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      Lake Fjalding consists of hundreds of small ice meshes, which is incredibly overkill and unnecessary. This replaces these ice layers with much bigger clustered meshes, which drastically reduces the amount of draw calls and references ingame and improves performance around Lake Fjalding significantly. There is no difference in visuals. It will look exactly the same. I only decided to offer it as an optional file since it's esp-based and will conflict with other mods that change Lake Fjalding.
  7. Pherim
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    Hey, it seems like you forgot to change flora_bc_lilipad01.nif to alpha testing. It is included in the mod, but still uses alpha blending. Incidentally, this causes issues with mods that replace the scum meshes with transparent ones like Lougian's Scum Replacer, because of the two alpha channels overlapping. With alpha testing, this doesn't happen any more.
    1. Pherim
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      Hey, you seem to have overlooked my comment, because this issue still exists in the current version.
    2. Flash3113
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      Yeah, sorry, kind of difficult to keep track of bugs that are mentioned outside of the bug tracker. I'll fix it in the next version.
    3. Pherim
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      Oh, ok! Alright, I'll post the next issue I find there.
  8. guaderaso
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    muchas gracias voy a probarlo
  9. Evanort
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    Holy crap, you weren't kidding. I thought you were exaggerating and I was gonna get like two or three more fps in my game at most, but outdoors performance in my very very outdated pc went from 15-18fps to a stable 30 and indoors performance from 30ish to 90+. Absolutely amazing patch, this is gonna be a permanent addition to my mod list. Thank you so so much!
  10. GoldenFlower22
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    Am I dumb or is there no meshes folder in the original Morrowind files? If so, do I put the files just in data files?
    1. SpaceDevo
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      Morrowind's vanilla meshes are stored in a BSA archive within its Data Files folder, with two more BSAs for its expansions. Yes to the second question. :)
  11. JohnMFWayneee
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    I'm getting a persistent crash in the latest version of OpenMW (0.44.0) in the "Dagoth Ur, Facility Cavern". Took me awhile but I was finally able to narrow it down to 'furn_mist512.nif' as the source of the crash. Any ideas as to why this might be? The only other mods I use that modify vanilla meshes are the ones that are listed under the 'Fixes and Patches' section in the STEP guide.
    1. akortunov
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      From what I can tell, OpenSceneGraph does not like the NiLODNode as a root node for some reason. The same thing in the 'furn_mist256.nif' mesh.
    2. JohnMFWayneee
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      If that is the case, then would the best course of action for an OpenMW user be to find each of these models that use NiLODNode as a parent (e.g. active_bubbles00.nif) and remove them?

      Edit: I went through the mod and identified every mesh that uses NiLODNode as a root node. I haven't really had any problems with the static objects that I listed here though... only things like 'furn_mist256.nif', 'furn_mist512.nif', and 'active_bubbles00.nif' (I was getting another persistent crash just outside of "Nimawia Grotto" linked to 'active_bubbles00.nif').

      meshes/f
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      meshes/m
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    3. akortunov
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      You can try to wrap NiLODNode's in such meshes (which have particles) by a common NiNode.
  12. Pherim
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    Where are these LODs? I can't find them.

    Edit: Ok, I found one mesh with LODs, ex_bm_hbane01.nif. What else? Also, how does MGE XE Distand land work with this kind of LODs? I only knew about the _dist suffix for meshes that are intended for distant land instead of the actual mesh without the suffix.
    1. Flash3113
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      They are part of the mesh under the NiLODNode. Only a couple meshes that benefitted from them have it.
    2. Pherim
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      Ok, the lights and 6th house assets have them as well. I didn't think about interiors, but it makes a lot of sense, as there is no occlusion culling or anything like it.
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