Is there any bug with the current version? I mean, my AI is SO stupid that I''m starting to wonder if there's a bug. They never take cover, they run to the middle of the enemies and lost components or gets destroyed extremely frequently.
Yeah I think there are some issues as piranha games have been mucking around with the vanilla AI again. A few posts down you will see the mod author talking about releasing an update when they can. I kind of wish Piranha games would just leave the game alone and stop releasing DLC, because it just breaks all the really good mods every time they release a new DLC. I just can't play vanilla MW5 anymore the mods are what take this game from a 'meh' mechwarrior game to the greatest mechwarrior game ever made and I can understand a mod author's frustration every time they have to dive back into their mods to fix them every time piranha releases a new mediocre DLC (the only DLC I want from piranha games is one that adds all the mechs from MWO to MW5 especially the clan mechs).
No matter what I do, I can't seem to get my LRM mechs like a Mad Dog to stay at long range. I tell them to go Sniper or Missile Boat, but when I tell them to attack a target, even with "Engage At Will", they rush in close. Is this "working as intended"?
First, use the Missileboat role for LRM mechs, not Sniper. Sniper wants to use direct fire weapons . . . which for an LRM boat, I'm guessing you probably have some medium laser backups? Well, then they're going to want to get into ML range instead of LRM range.
Second, as recommended in some of the AI types (Sniper, Missileboat, and a couple of others) are better used in Focus Fire mode instead of Engage At Will. With Focus Fire mode they'll try to operate in conjunction with the commander (you) to perform their role of providing fire support, flanking, etc., according to their role. However, in Engage At Will they become more autonomous, and aren't as prone to using the commander (you) as a basis for where they should position or how to engage.
Also, don't swap around lancemates in mission unless you absolutely must (like a lancemate getting stuck in terrain), because that also makes AI go wonky (in both TTAI and vanilla). Just an FYI in case it could be a factor.
Well, if you're using YAML, you can set the baseline AI in the mechlab. I THINK the Vulture/Mad Dog is already missileboat AI by default, so you shouldn't need to change it. Aside from that, stick to focus fire and just ensure to command mechs to focus your target. Their AI will have them work around you to engage the target of choice. Probably the best advice I can offer at that point.
Outside of that, consider waiting patiently for an update. Sorry I cannot offer more, but I'm also not the author.
This is continuing to happen for me even when I give the 'Mech only LRM's and no other backup weapons. If I tell them to attack a target, even when I set them as "Missile Boat" prior to the mission, they move into closer ranges. I'm guessing this is due to the AI pilot not having a radar lock or something along those lines, but you can't tell when an AI can see an enemy on radar unless you're using C3's (which I don't have yet in my current Career run).
Or is this due to me not giving them back-up weapons? I.E. should I still have some lasers on a Catapult or Longbow, or does that force them to try and engage up close regardless of what role you set?
The only way I've been able to keep an LRM 'Mech at long range consistently has been to use a "move to location" command, but this comes apart if I give an order to attack a specific target.
Getting into nitty-gritty here, because I don't know if there are any other generalizations to offer.
Spoiler:
Show
Well, personal recommendation, I always make sure to have backup weapons on LRM mechs. All it takes is one pesky little light mech inside minimum range to wreck that LRM mech's day, if it doesn't have backups. Also enemy AI isn't THAT dumb . . . if they know the mech can't shoot them at all within 180m, guess where they want to be. VTOLS and tanks can't really abuse that weakness, but enemy mechs absolutely can.
It also depends on enemy AI in general. Some mechs, like scouts, strikers, and ambushers, want to hunt down big slow missile boats and wolfpack them. It might not be that your missile boat is running in, but that sometimes enemies are running up on your missile boat. I will certainly say that, with the last major update, Oraeon made the enemy AI far more competent then vanilla, by a longshot. Some AI types are very particular about singling out certain targets if they have the opportunity to.
Touching on the "big slow missile boats" again . . . speed is a big factor. If your missile boat is just that much slower than everyone, aforementioned enemy AI types WILL single them out. Also, once they're in the furball it makes it very hard for them to get out, which can make repositioning nigh impossible.
There is a reason missile boats are either really agile, like a Catapult, really tanky, like an Archer, or have absurd all-ranges firepower, like a Stalker.
Outside of that, the only other recommendations I can give are to make sure your missile boats have the best sensor package you can offer, and be wary of positioning.
If mechs are in a formation focus-fire mode, they'll reposition to a reasonable extent, but they're not going to run 800m away from you (or the fight in general) to lob LRMs at their enemy from maximum possible distance. When ordered to attack a specific mech they'll try to optimize their positioning and range, but they're still trying to stay within reasonable unit cohesion (so you can cover each others' backs). I think Oraeon had at one point mentioned that they try to stay within a couple hundred meters (maybe 500 max).
Also, unless they have some sort of probe or C3 connection, they still require LOS to get a lock and attack; and even with such sensors, that non-LOS range/reliability is dependent on the system giving them that ability, which in turn has an affect on their engagement capabilities (i.e. constantly swapping targets while your missile boat is reliant on you for C3 locks means they can't reliably keep a target lock long enough to lob missiles and have them reach the target accurately). If you're that reliant on LRM fire support, consider a NARC or TAG if you have them available. Missile boat AI will prioritize a target hit with a constant TAG beam or pegged with a NARC beacon. NARC has the bigger tonnage investment, but is far better at painting targets for LRM support.
If the map gives you advantageous positioning, sometimes it may behoove you to just order your missile boat to hold the high ground, put them on engage at will, maybe give them a second lancemate whose orders are to defend the missile boat, and you take the rest of the lance into the fray while keeping them in focus-fire mode. Then you just let the AI do its thing, only giving direct orders if you really need to.
Hopefully that's all helpful to some extent or another.
Between DLC, a health issue and then a family emergency I haven't been able to work on the mod in about 4 weeks. I have now downloaded the DLC and updated the editor. I may have to see if there is a solaris issue. I was in the middle of overhauling the lancemates behaviors so it may be awhile until I can actually release a bugfix and the lancemate updates but hopefully in the next 3-4 weeks. If the current version is not running you can fall back to the v8 copy that ran before I started the current overhauls.
Damn, Oraeon, sorry to hear that you've had a slew of problems drop in your lap. Hope you're doing better.
No worries on the issues. Take your time and I'm sure we'll wait patiently until things can be updated. Plenty of games to mess around with in the meantime.
well, the solaris stuff is that the arena battles just ahve the mechs tandign there. The campaign itself, I haven't tested, but if the standard arena is anything to go by, it will probably be the same due to enemy detection range.
Sorry to hear you being unwell. First of all get well soon. And I hope your personal life gets sorted. Now to be a needy-me-me bastard like everyone else : Your mod rocks and even with the flaws it introduces it's still worth it (infiltration and arena being weird is what I mean). That being said ... if you can find the motivation and the drive ... There are people interested in your work. Obviously. And thankful for your efforts. So ... Gold plated "Please" with a cherry on top ..?
sorry to hear Oraeon, health and family is #1 take your time! Your mod has made the game so much better for me and so many others too. Thank you, get well soon.
Is there any hope to fixing allied merc drops from just constantly following you? I came back after a long break and i absolutely cannot stand just being surrounded by group of mechs just following me around endlessly
One thing I'd like to see is another role option for Melee. Juggernaut comes close, but even then they don't utterly try to smack the enemy up close except in specific 'Mechs.
Juggernaut is the closest you'll get. Oraeon has outlined it before in discussions, but he can't just force mechs to always try to melee, because that logic will override weapon usage and maneuvering logic entirely and melee mechs will just run around blindly trying to chase down enemies. If you want more details on it all, it wasn't that far back when discussions were last had. TL;DR, it's a limit in the PGI based systems Oraeon is forced to work around.
That said, here are some tips and tricks I've found to encourage more melee use in mechs:
Spoiler:
Show
1. If using YAML, try to make sure you're using mechs with either "melee specialization" or "battlefist" quirks, as those mechs are automatically more prone to trying to melee. If not, there's a list in the description that shows what mechs have that quirk by default, which Oraeon used to add additional melee weighting in those chassis' AI patterns.
2. Don't use stream fire or very short cooldown weapons on your mech. You can't melee while firing, so if the AI mech is spamming MGs or Flamers, or constantly has something like AC/2s or SLs off cooldown, then they're not going to swing their axe/fist/etc..
3. Make sure your melee mech is fast enough to close with targets. Melee logic requires the mech believe it can close with the enemy to try to get in a swing. The faster it is relative to the target, the further away (up to whatever the limit is, I think it's something like 150m) it will try to close the gap and use a melee strike on the enemy.
4. Try to make sure your melee mechs can jump, if possible. Having extra jump jets will give them a strong distance-closing option, and if they're close enough to an enemy, they'll try to use their JJ to quickly move in for a strike (and then move away, if applicable to AI type). This ties well with Juggernaut, Ambusher, and Striker AI.
Odd question- how would I go about opening these modified behavior trees in Unreal Engine? I would love to study them as practical examples of AI design within UE.
Something very strange happened when i downloaded this mod. after adding it all enemies just started running in circles. I have coyotes and i didnt read that they weren't compatible so i removed TTRULEZ AI, but all enemies still drove in circles only.
I've done a complete re-install of the game and enemies still run in circles without any mods added. Its so bizzare! Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas on fixing this behaviour, I cant even get the enemy AI to go back to vanilla.
Yes, and yes. Most of it worked fine, but it broke Infiltration missions pretty badly. Not sure if that's specifically an interaction with DLC 6 though, as I'd only found and installed this about a day before it came out and hadn't yet happened to have done an infiltration mission.
It seems to work ok from what little I've had a chance to play, but the free-for-all Solaris DLC mission I played had all the mechs just stand around doing nothing until I disabled the mod and restarted the mission
Might be a different mod causing the issue. I never had an issue with Infiltration with TTRulez on. One 'Mech, stealth on, and can pull the mission off easy. Only occasionally get enemies coming out to see what the weird shape on their screen was, since they get no signature. Also tried with a standard, and as long as I keep out of the AI's Eyeballs mk 1, I can usually pull it off easy.
From my own testing, if you have AI Accuracy Recurve alongside TTRulez, it breaks Infiltration hard. Enemies will just come chasing. Ai Accuracy Recurve breaks infiltration on its own, worse with TTRulez.
the mod breaks the infiltration missions, because even if the alert is not triggered, all the enemies as soon as they see you from afar, come closer and attack you
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They never take cover, they run to the middle of the enemies and lost components or gets destroyed extremely frequently.
Second, as recommended in some of the AI types (Sniper, Missileboat, and a couple of others) are better used in Focus Fire mode instead of Engage At Will. With Focus Fire mode they'll try to operate in conjunction with the commander (you) to perform their role of providing fire support, flanking, etc., according to their role. However, in Engage At Will they become more autonomous, and aren't as prone to using the commander (you) as a basis for where they should position or how to engage.
Also, don't swap around lancemates in mission unless you absolutely must (like a lancemate getting stuck in terrain), because that also makes AI go wonky (in both TTAI and vanilla). Just an FYI in case it could be a factor.
Outside of that, consider waiting patiently for an update. Sorry I cannot offer more, but I'm also not the author.
Or is this due to me not giving them back-up weapons? I.E. should I still have some lasers on a Catapult or Longbow, or does that force them to try and engage up close regardless of what role you set?
The only way I've been able to keep an LRM 'Mech at long range consistently has been to use a "move to location" command, but this comes apart if I give an order to attack a specific target.
Well, personal recommendation, I always make sure to have backup weapons on LRM mechs. All it takes is one pesky little light mech inside minimum range to wreck that LRM mech's day, if it doesn't have backups. Also enemy AI isn't THAT dumb . . . if they know the mech can't shoot them at all within 180m, guess where they want to be. VTOLS and tanks can't really abuse that weakness, but enemy mechs absolutely can.
It also depends on enemy AI in general. Some mechs, like scouts, strikers, and ambushers, want to hunt down big slow missile boats and wolfpack them. It might not be that your missile boat is running in, but that sometimes enemies are running up on your missile boat. I will certainly say that, with the last major update, Oraeon made the enemy AI far more competent then vanilla, by a longshot. Some AI types are very particular about singling out certain targets if they have the opportunity to.
Touching on the "big slow missile boats" again . . . speed is a big factor. If your missile boat is just that much slower than everyone, aforementioned enemy AI types WILL single them out. Also, once they're in the furball it makes it very hard for them to get out, which can make repositioning nigh impossible.
There is a reason missile boats are either really agile, like a Catapult, really tanky, like an Archer, or have absurd all-ranges firepower, like a Stalker.
Outside of that, the only other recommendations I can give are to make sure your missile boats have the best sensor package you can offer, and be wary of positioning.
If mechs are in a formation focus-fire mode, they'll reposition to a reasonable extent, but they're not going to run 800m away from you (or the fight in general) to lob LRMs at their enemy from maximum possible distance. When ordered to attack a specific mech they'll try to optimize their positioning and range, but they're still trying to stay within reasonable unit cohesion (so you can cover each others' backs). I think Oraeon had at one point mentioned that they try to stay within a couple hundred meters (maybe 500 max).
Also, unless they have some sort of probe or C3 connection, they still require LOS to get a lock and attack; and even with such sensors, that non-LOS range/reliability is dependent on the system giving them that ability, which in turn has an affect on their engagement capabilities (i.e. constantly swapping targets while your missile boat is reliant on you for C3 locks means they can't reliably keep a target lock long enough to lob missiles and have them reach the target accurately). If you're that reliant on LRM fire support, consider a NARC or TAG if you have them available. Missile boat AI will prioritize a target hit with a constant TAG beam or pegged with a NARC beacon. NARC has the bigger tonnage investment, but is far better at painting targets for LRM support.
If the map gives you advantageous positioning, sometimes it may behoove you to just order your missile boat to hold the high ground, put them on engage at will, maybe give them a second lancemate whose orders are to defend the missile boat, and you take the rest of the lance into the fray while keeping them in focus-fire mode. Then you just let the AI do its thing, only giving direct orders if you really need to.
Hopefully that's all helpful to some extent or another.
No worries on the issues. Take your time and I'm sure we'll wait patiently until things can be updated. Plenty of games to mess around with in the meantime.
Your mod rocks and even with the flaws it introduces it's still worth it (infiltration and arena being weird is what I mean). That being said ... if you can find the motivation and the drive ... There are people interested in your work. Obviously. And thankful for your efforts. So ... Gold plated "Please" with a cherry on top ..?
Your mod has made the game so much better for me and so many others too.
Thank you, get well soon.
That said, here are some tips and tricks I've found to encourage more melee use in mechs:
1. If using YAML, try to make sure you're using mechs with either "melee specialization" or "battlefist" quirks, as those mechs are automatically more prone to trying to melee. If not, there's a list in the description that shows what mechs have that quirk by default, which Oraeon used to add additional melee weighting in those chassis' AI patterns.
2. Don't use stream fire or very short cooldown weapons on your mech. You can't melee while firing, so if the AI mech is spamming MGs or Flamers, or constantly has something like AC/2s or SLs off cooldown, then they're not going to swing their axe/fist/etc..
3. Make sure your melee mech is fast enough to close with targets. Melee logic requires the mech believe it can close with the enemy to try to get in a swing. The faster it is relative to the target, the further away (up to whatever the limit is, I think it's something like 150m) it will try to close the gap and use a melee strike on the enemy.
4. Try to make sure your melee mechs can jump, if possible. Having extra jump jets will give them a strong distance-closing option, and if they're close enough to an enemy, they'll try to use their JJ to quickly move in for a strike (and then move away, if applicable to AI type). This ties well with Juggernaut, Ambusher, and Striker AI.
I've done a complete re-install of the game and enemies still run in circles without any mods added. Its so bizzare! Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas on fixing this behaviour, I cant even get the enemy AI to go back to vanilla.
How's going with new version?
From my own testing, if you have AI Accuracy Recurve alongside TTRulez, it breaks Infiltration hard. Enemies will just come chasing. Ai Accuracy Recurve breaks infiltration on its own, worse with TTRulez.