Seems weird for the chill and, relatively, laid back Kaidan to even behave like this - Ash - yes - all she does is *censored* about everything EVERYONE does xD
But Kaidan ... ... ... even accusing Shepard of this is not only unfair when HE LEFT HER if she asks him to STAY in ME2 :P - but it's a bit of a stretch for the guy who'd been an outcast and alone and 'judged' his whole life because of his modifications to try and accuse Shepard of anything (never mind abandoning her in ME2 in the first place...) when he's, generally, one of the more understanding and reasonable characters in the game
But he's not that chill... or laid back? He chews out Shepard on Horizon, sends her a letter full of angst and regret, goes super-suspicious mode on Mars, points a gun at her on the Citadel, then accuses her of cheating (which seems perfectly in character for him). It's totally understandable for someone too be suspicious of Shepard regarding her death and involvement with Cerberus, but Kaidan clearly tends to twist the narrative to suit his world (universe?) view. Seems like people are ok with it because he's sort of chill, some of the time? Honestly I highly recommend re-evaluating Kaidan, take everything he says and does and determine if you'd be ok with it IRL.
That's... quite the interpretation. Kaidan does have every reason to be pissed at Shepard. He didn't have all the details on Horizon and was only told it was assumed Shepard had been alive and working with Cerberus for two years. The they indeed show up with Cerberus. How is he supposed to act when they ask him to join their little terrorist group? Even asking him to go AWOL should have been the renegade option. Even so, he straight up owns that he overreacted and tells you to stay safe. His suspicions in ME3 are also warranted, up to and including pointing a gun at Shepard (he has 3 guns pointed at him, btw). He chooses to trust them anyway, unless they spent the game enforcing his suspicions instead of allowing him to see he was wrong.
It's obvious you dislike him and that's cool, but the narrative you're painting seems to be tainted by that fact.
To come around to the point of the mod though. All the cheating accusations are crap. Kaidan and Ash's against Shep and FShep's against Jacob. They could have had actual adult conversations about recommitment and relationships under duress, but no... It had to boil down to, "We didn't officially break up, so you can never move on."
I love how everyone is constantly pissed off at Ashley for absolutely no reason, but Kaiden literally does the same things in ME2 and ME3. Seems incredibly hypocritical to me, not to mention the weird excuses people come up with to justify cheating.
He's chill and laid back... compared to ashley, racist, sexist, judgmental ashley and that's intentional. So, it's totally understandable for someone to be suspicious of shepard but somehow kaidan is still twisting the narrative when he is.
No, he didn't have a reason to be pissed at shepard on horizon for the reason you mentioned, he doesn't have all the details but instead of assuming them, maybe... I don't know... he could have asked? Literally, everyone else in the game understands (even if they don't agree) why shepard would work with cerberus to stop the collectors, except him. Both anderson and hackett knew about and enabled it plus the council knowing that will reinstate her. Even ashley is more reasonable about it.
And his suspicions about her in ME3 aren't warranted either. After stopping the collectors , she comes back to the alliance with the ship and stays under house arrest, and he's still the only one suspicious. Even after being reinstated by Anderson, fighting cerberus on mars, hearing the conversation with the illusive man, leading the fight against the reapers, etc he still doesn't trust her unless she makes the effort to patch things up with him, which shouldn't be her job.
I don't think that ashley actually uses the word 'cheating' just takes shots at whoever he romanced in ME2, which is mature. And another small detail everyone's missing... they weren't together at the end of ME1. Remember rules against fraternization. If they were together, he'd get transferred off the ship and he didn't want that to happen.
Jacob is a different case, while you don't know how they left things at the end of ME2, he does tell her he loves her but then doesn't want to wait six months while she is sorting out things with the alliance, and by the time they meet up again he is already in a relationship with someone else. I guess she should have sat on the beach with him instead of preparing for the reapers. shep obviously thinks they are still together, and so does brynn, and so does jacob. If you slap him, he says he deserved that. So if the person admits it, they probably did. Not sure how an 'adult' conversation about that would go.
People have lots of reasons to be pissed at ashley but you have somehow missed the point in that people are pissed at kaidan but aren't allowed to express that in game and that no one is justifying cheating but that cheating didn't occur. To cheat you have to be and know you are in a relationship with someone which didn't happen here.
To be fair, Shepard can turn Kaidan renegade in just one conversation, complete with astonishingly racist lines in ME1. I actually like the conflict he creates with Shepard in ME2 and 3. I just don't get dismissing those parts of his character without fully addressing it. Shepard has to do all the work in validating him, when she literally died, spent two years on an operating table, turns herself in after having to make the choice to kill hundreds of thousands of colonists, AND is continuously responsible for saving the galaxy. It comes off as her needing to baby him until he can forgive her for all her terrible deeds. It's just way too one-sided and an incredibly unhealthy way to establish a relationship. BUT that's why it's lovely that mods like this one can be made so Shep can stand up for herself.
To be fair, I also think they screwed up Ash's character in ME3 as well on the subject of if Shep was with someone else. Her being ok with Shep being with Tali and not Miranda or Jack is very out of character IMO. It isn't until the end of ME1 do you begin to get her to get off the racism thing, so her calling Tali like a sister is very weird. It is only a few months after the end of ME1 before the Normandy is destroyed and Tali goes back to the Fleet, so it really seems off for her to suddenly bond with Tali so fast, especially considering Ash's nastiness toward Liara if Shep flirts with her. While she may not like Miranda's need to show off her body or Jack's wild past, they are human and that would be more in character than the Tali is my sister thing. I think Ash does mature a lot through the games and on a whole like her better by the time 3 rolls around, but this is one spot I think they screwed up.
I accidentally found the make Kaidan more anti-alien conversation in ME1 while it is an odd side of him, he still isn't as racist as Ash is. Sure Ash has a lot of reasons why considering what happened to her Grandfather and she was probably raised with that kind of hate, but at the same time Kaidan should be after BAaT and yet even he can reason it was one Turian vs all of them. So I could understand if Ash hated Turians, but she doesn't, she hates anyone not human.
In the end, we all have our reasons for who we love and hate and how we interrupt the characters. Everyone has their favorite LI, favorite squadmates, and so forth. The great thing about mods like this is that it helps people who love a certain character to have a fix for a problem that breaks their immersion in their cannon view.
Cheers to this mod! Finally going to use in the next scene! Fingers crossed! Is there any options for a future mod that also address the *Kaiden, Im so sorry blah,blah,blah* scene in the hospital when Fem Shep first visits him! Seriously, he dissed her, dismissed her, dumped her and all in front of the crew! And then sends her an e-mail saying he's been seeing someone else!!! What??? Anywho, love your mod work, so awesome!!
Just a heads up, the mod went seamlessly except for the part where Femshep was supposed to say something where the branch lets her either point out Horizon or the email that said he was dating. The bottom option works fine, but the upper one has a repeat of Kaidan's line saying, "Yeah, I guess you're right". I don't need a fix as I'm already more than satisfied with the options, but I wasn't sure if others had a similar experience.
Hi there! Yes, this is a known bug and something I am working on a fix for. It was very goofy of me and involves just having entered a number wrong somewhere. I haven't had a chance to fix it just yet, but one is coming, and just so everyone else who sees this knows -- I know, and I'm on it! :D
Sorry about that then! The work you've already done is staggering so don't feel you have to rush on my account! Love what you're doing with the Joker mod and definitely looking forward to what you have planned!
It bothered me that we could not reply to Kaidan in ME2. Then I found the the special voiced e-mail that Raphael Sbarge recorded and it was great, I wished they had included it in the game. (10) Kaidan's Letter to Shepard - Raphael Sbarge - YouTube Kimberly Brooks also did one for Ashley.
I "got" it when Kaidan said all the stuff about the Cerberus, I agreed with him, and it was nice to have someone not saying oh, it must be ok, Shepard is doing it. But I really would have liked to talk more and the recording RS did hit the right tone and I still have it. :)
An awesome mod! Thank you for making these scenes with Kaiden better than the *You cheated on me after I dumped you* vibe the Bio writers gave us!! (Must have been a bunch of dudes without a clue)! It's why the Kaiden character gets such bum rap in this game!! I love character, he's the one for my femshep, but there is no sense of pining for a guy that just kicked you to the curb. Joker, Garrus, the Scottish guy in engineering or Vega (if he wasn't so much work for a one night stand) are defiantly great options until the Kaiden character straitens up and acts like a man instead of a sulky teen!
Okay, before I put in my 2 cents, I have a question:
I would really like to play this mod, but does it end the relationship? I don't want to speak the words and then find out hours of gameplay later that he got his little feelings hurt and cut me off (*cough* original game *cough**hack*GRRRRRRR).
I agree with all those that said there should have been an option to remind him that the breakup was his decision. Shame on Bioware for making Femsheps feel like they were wrong to go with someone else in ME2...because they weren't. He dumped her (against her wishes, if asking him to stay) and walked away. There was no relationship to consider. And even when he finally reached out (in a letter...not even a call), he wasn't sure he wanted to get back together. There was absolutely no reason for Femshep to think that Kaidan was even her friend at that point, much less that they were still in a relationship.
The other thing I hold against Bioware is not being able to tell off Kaidan after he more or less calls Femshep a Cerberus robot (on Mars, I think). Seriously, Kaidan wasn't a fragile flower, he should have been able to take Femshep being angry at such hurtful words without him cutting off the relationship at her reaction. But if you actually act like a human being with feelings yourself, Bioware terminates any romance with him. What a crock. It would have been really nice to be able to slap his face for it and then have him realize what a hurtful, total jerk thing he had just said to someone he had once loved. But let's face it, though Bioware is one of the best at making us love our companions, they've always struggled with the love/hate friend/enemy system. Their games always made me cringe at how you had to dance around your companions to make them like you. People have feelings. They should be able to express them to their friends and especially to their LIs. That said, Bioware is starting to do much better with the approval system as they produce more games.
Anywho, thanks for the mod...well, provided I can tell him off and he acts like a grown man that doesn't pout and write me off for being human, too. :P
This is one of the best sliced audio I've heard in mods so far. Love it!
I did encounter a glitch/bug though. After I chose "Your e-mail said you were dating, too!" followed by "And I don't hold it against you." instead of that line Shepard says "Yeah, I suppose I did...", basically repeating Kaidan's previous line in Kaidan's voice with Shep lipsyncing (if that makes sense).
I am so excited for this mod! I only wish I'd seen it before I just completed my LE playthrough. But, I am definitely adding it for my next one :D I fully dumped Kaiden after that line in the original and finished the game single haha.
Give Feedback
67 comments
But Kaidan ... ... ... even accusing Shepard of this is not only unfair when HE LEFT HER if she asks him to STAY in ME2 :P - but it's a bit of a stretch for the guy who'd been an outcast and alone and 'judged' his whole life because of his modifications to try and accuse Shepard of anything (never mind abandoning her in ME2 in the first place...) when he's, generally, one of the more understanding and reasonable characters in the game
It's obvious you dislike him and that's cool, but the narrative you're painting seems to be tainted by that fact.
To come around to the point of the mod though. All the cheating accusations are crap. Kaidan and Ash's against Shep and FShep's against Jacob. They could have had actual adult conversations about recommitment and relationships under duress, but no... It had to boil down to, "We didn't officially break up, so you can never move on."
No, he didn't have a reason to be pissed at shepard on horizon for the reason you mentioned, he doesn't have all the details but instead of assuming them, maybe... I don't know... he could have asked? Literally, everyone else in the game understands (even if they don't agree) why shepard would work with cerberus to stop the collectors, except him. Both anderson and hackett knew about and enabled it plus the council knowing that will reinstate her. Even ashley is more reasonable about it.
And his suspicions about her in ME3 aren't warranted either. After stopping the collectors , she comes back to the alliance with the ship and stays under house arrest, and he's still the only one suspicious. Even after being reinstated by Anderson, fighting cerberus on mars, hearing the conversation with the illusive man, leading the fight against the reapers, etc he still doesn't trust her unless she makes the effort to patch things up with him, which shouldn't be her job.
I don't think that ashley actually uses the word 'cheating' just takes shots at whoever he romanced in ME2, which is mature. And another small detail everyone's missing... they weren't together at the end of ME1. Remember rules against fraternization. If they were together, he'd get transferred off the ship and he didn't want that to happen.
Jacob is a different case, while you don't know how they left things at the end of ME2, he does tell her he loves her but then doesn't want to wait six months while she is sorting out things with the alliance, and by the time they meet up again he is already in a relationship with someone else. I guess she should have sat on the beach with him instead of preparing for the reapers. shep obviously thinks they are still together, and so does brynn, and so does jacob. If you slap him, he says he deserved that. So if the person admits it, they probably did. Not sure how an 'adult' conversation about that would go.
People have lots of reasons to be pissed at ashley but you have somehow missed the point in that people are pissed at kaidan but aren't allowed to express that in game and that no one is justifying cheating but that cheating didn't occur. To cheat you have to be and know you are in a relationship with someone which didn't happen here.
I accidentally found the make Kaidan more anti-alien conversation in ME1 while it is an odd side of him, he still isn't as racist as Ash is. Sure Ash has a lot of reasons why considering what happened to her Grandfather and she was probably raised with that kind of hate, but at the same time Kaidan should be after BAaT and yet even he can reason it was one Turian vs all of them. So I could understand if Ash hated Turians, but she doesn't, she hates anyone not human.
In the end, we all have our reasons for who we love and hate and how we interrupt the characters. Everyone has their favorite LI, favorite squadmates, and so forth. The great thing about mods like this is that it helps people who love a certain character to have a fix for a problem that breaks their immersion in their cannon view.
It is? Thank God you're here, nobody else knew that.
Being mean doesn't really interest me - I think these options work well enough, haha.
Yes, this is a known bug and something I am working on a fix for. It was very goofy of me and involves just having entered a number wrong somewhere.
I haven't had a chance to fix it just yet, but one is coming, and just so everyone else who sees this knows -- I know, and I'm on it! :D
It bothered me that we could not reply to Kaidan in ME2. Then I found the the special voiced e-mail that Raphael Sbarge recorded and it was great, I wished they had included it in the game. (10) Kaidan's Letter to Shepard - Raphael Sbarge - YouTube Kimberly Brooks also did one for Ashley.
I "got" it when Kaidan said all the stuff about the Cerberus, I agreed with him, and it was nice to have someone not saying oh, it must be ok, Shepard is doing it. But I really would have liked to talk more and the recording RS did hit the right tone and I still have it. :)
I would really like to play this mod, but does it end the relationship? I don't want to speak the words and then find out hours of gameplay later that he got his little feelings hurt and cut me off (*cough* original game *cough**hack*GRRRRRRR).
I agree with all those that said there should have been an option to remind him that the breakup was his decision. Shame on Bioware for making Femsheps feel like they were wrong to go with someone else in ME2...because they weren't. He dumped her (against her wishes, if asking him to stay) and walked away. There was no relationship to consider. And even when he finally reached out (in a letter...not even a call), he wasn't sure he wanted to get back together. There was absolutely no reason for Femshep to think that Kaidan was even her friend at that point, much less that they were still in a relationship.
The other thing I hold against Bioware is not being able to tell off Kaidan after he more or less calls Femshep a Cerberus robot (on Mars, I think). Seriously, Kaidan wasn't a fragile flower, he should have been able to take Femshep being angry at such hurtful words without him cutting off the relationship at her reaction. But if you actually act like a human being with feelings yourself, Bioware terminates any romance with him. What a crock. It would have been really nice to be able to slap his face for it and then have him realize what a hurtful, total jerk thing he had just said to someone he had once loved. But let's face it, though Bioware is one of the best at making us love our companions, they've always struggled with the love/hate friend/enemy system. Their games always made me cringe at how you had to dance around your companions to make them like you. People have feelings. They should be able to express them to their friends and especially to their LIs. That said, Bioware is starting to do much better with the approval system as they produce more games.
Anywho, thanks for the mod...well, provided I can tell him off and he acts like a grown man that doesn't pout and write me off for being human, too. :P
I did encounter a glitch/bug though. After I chose "Your e-mail said you were dating, too!" followed by "And I don't hold it against you." instead of that line Shepard says "Yeah, I suppose I did...", basically repeating Kaidan's previous line in Kaidan's voice with Shep lipsyncing (if that makes sense).