we say this isn't in the game from the start, but when I start a new game, I always see one of the houses having a same-sex couple. like to the right next door I see two wonderful ladies. wish they survived
@ Duck1987 Not really, same reason why the Witcher didn't include racial diversity because it didn't fit with slavic folk lore. Has absolutely nothing to do with prejudice but everything to do with creating a believable environment. When does the 1950's conjure images of civil partners with adopted/donor babies. There's nothing wrong with using the mod, but to say it should be included in the base game undermines the creative vision of the of the devs, it just wouldn't make thematic sense.
@Shaggywan Thank you! The mod sparked mild curiosity for me but the fact that people are throwing hissy fits about same-sex marriage not being assumed in the game clearly set in a 1950s-style era bugged the crap out of me. No, that doesn't fit with the theme and maybe not everyone is being "included" when it comes to the time you have with your wife/husband, but same-sex relationships are STILL an option. If anything, it goes to show that there is a clear gap between the time of the Great War and the time that you play. It shows that things have changed in a FICTIONAL UNIVERSE. Jesus. The level of entitlement here is crazy. Do what you want with your money, but it's still stupid to boycott something like this that ultimately doesn't end up mattering.
@Shaggywan When does the 50's conjure images of artificially intelligent robot housekeepers? Clearly things are a little different this time around and it would have taken practically no effort for even a mediocre writer to work same-sex inclusion into the narrative.
Come to think of it, they wouldn't have had to change anything at all. If my character was simply interacting with another woman throughout the entire intro and none of the NPC's brought it up everything would proceed exactly the same and it would have felt entirely natural. The Fallout universe is already a weird amalgamation of time periods, cultures, and sensibilities. After all the freedom of character creation and same-sex accessibility in previous Fallout games would you honestly have even questioned it? I doubt it.
Would have made a lot of fans happy too, I'm just sayin'...
@Shaggywan You can't really say it shouldn't be in the game because being gay in the 50's isn't in line with the cultural values. If we're going so far to say the cultural values of the 50's should match the game, it shouldn't allow having interracial marriages and there should be Whites Only vaults.
You should also keep in mind that the timeline isn't actually set in the 50's. Its set over half a century into the future and onward from our current time. The 50's theme is only 50's cultural appearance not 50's values.
Why does EVERYONE who uses the 50's argument conveniently forget that interracial marriage was against the sensibilities of the 1950's too? Even for decades after that such couples were openly sneered at. And yet, it's possible here.
That is because this world is 2077 as envisioned by 50's futurists, NOT by 50's culturalists.
I actually agree with some of what's being said, I actually do think inter racial marriage would be out of place and it kind of is... also I know it's not actually set in the 50's and is a reflection of the 50's, my point was more against shoe horning content to appease everyone at the cost of story telling, but the point about human advancement etc is addressed in the very first cut scene. Whites only vaults, homosexuals etc would of been interesting issues in context to the narrative if they were explored, sort of like the persecution of ghouls. In any case I'd prefer some sort of back story to how Social Politics would of developed in a heavily 50's inspired 2077 rather than having to imagine it is all.
But as nickblames said "The Fallout universe is already a weird amalgamation of time periods, cultures, and sensibilities. After all the freedom of character creation and same-sex accessibility in previous Fallout games would you honestly have even questioned it? I doubt it." I suppose I've just been spoiled by the advancement of story telling in games and am being pinnikity.
Tell that to the 2 Lesbians living next door...... The "look" of the game is a take on the 50's culture, not the anti everyone who isn't a Caucasian, Christian, Heterosexual Male hypocritical morals of that time.
@cjqnsnyc Well the intro kind of gives me an impression of 50's suburbia permeated with nuclear energy, I guess that's why it impresses 50's cultural norms upon me, warts and all.
The entire premise of the Fallout universe is that it's a 50s future without the societal flaws, aside from the red scare, over-consumption and war because those are part of the theme. You won't find a single instance of a whites only zone or women being shamed for taking a job and not being a home maker, so why would they still have an anti-gay prejudice?
Yeah perhaps post apocalypse societal laws are all but gone, pre-apocalypse isn't really expanded on, besides Bethesda included same sex relationships anyway what does it hurt to think of the intro spouse as a beard, seems to suit the general aesthetic more imo.
The architectural/fashion and designs of the setting are futuristic retro... it doesn't mean that society discarded a hundred years of progress in favour of the 1950s social mores. The "but it's a 50's setting" arguement doesn't hold water, if you don't like the mod don't use it, it's that simple.
Your argument is nonsense. In the 50s were also interracial marriages/relationships a big taboo. But still you can play as a black man with a white wife. It is a fact that the lack of a homosexual family option is a big flaw in the game story and it is also a big inteference of Bethesda in in your personal experience of the game. They force important characteristics upon your character which should be define just by you. Bethesda should never change the course in matters of character development freedom.
As it is now you only have the choice between bein bisexual and heterosexual. And that is a big flaw in the regular game design of Bethesda
Interracial marriage was also banned and looked down upon in the 50s but you see interracial couples at the start of the game, including a lesbian couple. Women couldn't fight in the army in the 50s and yet women fraught in Anchorage in pre-war fallout. So obviously it doesn't copy ALL aspects of the 50s. The main thing that diverges from our real life timeline is the failure to develop smaller electronics, thus they consume more resources and in turn cause all the issues that led to the great war. All indications in the lore suggest that the civil rights battles throughout history, which presumably would include LGBT rights activism, still happened. Then by 2077 I can't imagine anyone would care.
You only really see homophobia in the post-war world where certain people revert to a more archaic mindset.
Gay marriage fits into the retro-future 50s theme as well as interracial marriage, the complete lack of racial segregation, women in the workforce, the actual openly-gay couple visible in the opening sequence of the game, etc. This is a non-argument.
The 50's argument is plain silly... there were TONS of gays then, and ever era, it just wasnt made-for-tv-radio propaganda like what most people were enslaved by back then... worship government, "god", and CONSUME & COMPLY etc....no era has been perfect, romanticizing the past loses out on the lessons learn thru it... Ive heard many stories from older gays about that era, and have looked at enough historical reflections to see the delusions people hold up about the 50's are inane at best, indoctrinated & delusional at worst.
The real reason this argument doesnt hold up is because the fallout series doesnt show or hint to thinks like racism, sexism, or homophobia in it's pre-world. The game leaves those prejudeces out of the game, so it doesnt make sense why it can't exist from a lore perspective. You're just being homophobic and came to this mod to spread that.
Love this mod. Standing there listening to my "wife" tell me how I asked her out, what she loves about me, and other things along those lines....just NO!!!! I kept saying to her..PLEASE SHUT UP!!! I even head cannoned her into my character's best friend that he married as a convenient arrangement. Why Bethesda didn't include this in a game where Todd said you could be "any kind of character you want to be" is beyond me.
To all the people going on about 1950's values and gay relationships, explain the CLEARLY LESBIAN couple living next door embracing there on the street for all to see in a not so sisterly manner? Right.
Once we have the CK, I'm looking forward to an expanded version of mods such as this.
You can be a gay or lesbian in the game and romance another character of the same gender. They didn't start you out as a child, so they had to give it some backstory, and they went with the way that lets you be either a man or a woman.
No, it DOES matter. Would you say the same if they FORCED you to start off as a gay male or female? Imagine the horror of heterosexuals if they had to endure a person of the same sex telling them how they met, all the things that turn them on about you, etc? To them, THAT would certainly matter. Even if you get to play it "straight" later on, the character's preset origin would be a problem.
As a gay man I can tell there is too much whine. ahhaha I like the idea that your wife was the last woman you've ever loved. The main isnt really even straight as much as bi since you can romance any gender I take it as they are both bi sexual. lol
looks like the ppl with insecurities are not always the one we think... i mean come one you can imagine a ton of reasons as to why you are with a woman in the 20 min opening... but anyway, its modded now so its all good for everyone. personnally i never found that as a problem as i'm bi i consider the MC to be bi too (wich is true as he have no problem flirting with anyone XD)
You make a simple statement and someone will always have something to say about YOU rather than the actual statement. Typical.
I'm not insecure, I'm not bi either. I'm gay and that means no wife or any "last" women to have loved! Period. That's more or less all I said while thanking the mod creator for his/her work. If people want to take issue with that, knock yourselves out.
It's really limiting when it comes to the background of your character. The fallout games have always been very vague about the details of their protagonists and that's always been a huge plus in my book. You can make up all these details about your character in you head and the official story won't contradict that. This is gone now. Bethesda instead made you into this specific married heterosexual (or bisexual, I suppose) person with a much more detailed backstory. And for what? The story? It really isn't that good of a story and certainly not worth the deviation from the fallout model.
And I'm not even gay or bisexual. I just don't want a character who has been married at all. That whole domestic thing is just boring to me.
While I agree on the topic of it being limiting to the potential backgrounds of your character, and I wouldn't have been opposed to more options, it makes sense within the story. When you consider how much voice acting costs, how much time it takes to develop all the different options that you could choose from the beginning, and the fact that Bethesda does allow gay/lesbian/polyamorous relationships later on anway, despite not needing to, I really don't see why they should have to cater to every possibility. And no, I wouldn't mind playing a game where I'm forced to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender. I don't 'tolerate' non-straight sexualities because they don't affect me, I wholeheartedly believe they should have every right that a straight couple has, and also don't feel they should get anything extra. We're all human, we all love who we love. If Bethesda ever makes a game with a bisexual transgender character with seven husbands/wives, I'll be the first to buy it. But don't think being gay means you should immediately get special treatment, and the entire game should be rewritten to accommodate your preference.
Thank you! I felt just the same. I was expecting more from Bethesda than starting with a heterosexual marriage. I cannot get this mod to work for me and it frustrates me because the heterosexuality is so obnoxiously obvious. The first thing I was confronted with is my 'husband' telling me how beautiful I am and how 'our' baby has my smile while creating my character. It's not that we cannot get over ourselves or that we aren't used to the lack of representation (unlike straights that 'wouldn't mind not being represented for a change', of course it's not the same). Bethesda gave us representation with the possibility of same sex marriage in Skyrim, we are a bit disappointed that it is back to straight marriage with fallout 4. Thankfully there is this mod. Only if it worked for me... It's easier to get into the game if one of the biggest aspects of your life is an option.
Agreed, anyone who thinks there would not have been a tremendous furore amongst hetero people if they had been forced to start the game in a gay relationship is kidding the hell out of themselves.
I have placed it in the correct location saves, then run f4se, with mods enabled and it CTDs and i really do want to play as a Trans-Gendered character
Though it's great having the two girls, there are a few emersion breakers,, like Sir,, male,, sir,, Daddy,, then the Kellog shoots partner (Male with male voice) then the male in the Cryo when you get free. Maybe one day a mod may do this..
113 comments
Get over your insecurities.
Not really, same reason why the Witcher didn't include racial diversity because it didn't fit with slavic folk lore. Has absolutely nothing to do with prejudice but everything to do with creating a believable environment. When does the 1950's conjure images of civil partners with adopted/donor babies. There's nothing wrong with using the mod, but to say it should be included in the base game undermines the creative vision of the of the devs, it just wouldn't make thematic sense.
Come to think of it, they wouldn't have had to change anything at all. If my character was simply interacting with another woman throughout the entire intro and none of the NPC's brought it up everything would proceed exactly the same and it would have felt entirely natural. The Fallout universe is already a weird amalgamation of time periods, cultures, and sensibilities. After all the freedom of character creation and same-sex accessibility in previous Fallout games would you honestly have even questioned it? I doubt it.
Would have made a lot of fans happy too, I'm just sayin'...
You should also keep in mind that the timeline isn't actually set in the 50's. Its set over half a century into the future and onward from our current time. The 50's theme is only 50's cultural appearance not 50's values.
And yet, it's possible here.
That is because this world is 2077 as envisioned by 50's futurists, NOT by 50's culturalists.
But as nickblames said "The Fallout universe is already a weird amalgamation of time periods, cultures, and sensibilities.
After all the freedom of character creation and same-sex accessibility in previous Fallout games would you honestly have even questioned it? I doubt it." I suppose I've just been spoiled by the advancement of story telling in games and am being pinnikity.
You won't find a single instance of a whites only zone or women being shamed for taking a job and not being a home maker, so why would they still have an anti-gay prejudice?
As it is now you only have the choice between bein bisexual and heterosexual. And that is a big flaw in the regular game design of Bethesda
You only really see homophobia in the post-war world where certain people revert to a more archaic mindset.
To all the people going on about 1950's values and gay relationships, explain the CLEARLY LESBIAN couple living next door embracing there on the street for all to see in a not so sisterly manner? Right.
Once we have the CK, I'm looking forward to an expanded version of mods such as this.
Thanks again!
You can be a gay or lesbian in the game and romance another character of the same gender. They didn't start you out as a child, so they had to give it some backstory, and they went with the way that lets you be either a man or a woman.
Without a doubt!
I'm not insecure, I'm not bi either. I'm gay and that means no wife or any "last" women to have loved! Period. That's more or less all I said while thanking the mod creator for his/her work. If people want to take issue with that, knock yourselves out.
It's really limiting when it comes to the background of your character. The fallout games have always been very vague about the details of their protagonists and that's always been a huge plus in my book. You can make up all these details about your character in you head and the official story won't contradict that. This is gone now. Bethesda instead made you into this specific married heterosexual (or bisexual, I suppose) person with a much more detailed backstory. And for what? The story? It really isn't that good of a story and certainly not worth the deviation from the fallout model.
And I'm not even gay or bisexual. I just don't want a character who has been married at all. That whole domestic thing is just boring to me.
It's not that we cannot get over ourselves or that we aren't used to the lack of representation (unlike straights that 'wouldn't mind not being represented for a change', of course it's not the same). Bethesda gave us representation with the possibility of same sex marriage in Skyrim, we are a bit disappointed that it is back to straight marriage with fallout 4. Thankfully there is this mod. Only if it worked for me...
It's easier to get into the game if one of the biggest aspects of your life is an option.
Ban me, tolerant fools
Your wish has been granted.
-LM