Everyone, I've decided to pause development on this for awhile, as I've seen a lot of other great vocation balance mods, and I currently am focusing much more on the NGP encounters and other parts of the package.
Might open this up again in the future if needed, but for now, you can of course continue to use it, but I would also recommend looking at the other vocation balance options available here as alternatives. :)
Some of these buffs and nerfs seem very questionable. I see a lot of the values seem to be more or less based on or happen to be equal to Daikin's Balanced Combat adjustment, but a few really miss the mark or are lacking.
-Knockdown timer's just as brutally long in this one as vanilla... Maybe you could change up the knockdown time for players/pawns/NPCs so less of combat is spent on the ground?
-I think Daikin's parry values are good, and the ones here are occasionally overly generous. Hindsight Sweep in particular may be overbuffed? Perfect parries being 20f also seems a bit too high compared to a more balanced 15f.
-Aimed Shot really seems to need a bit of a nerf, because it's often just kind of better than using any skills. Especially if you're using the Medusan Spellbow. -Manifold Shot hitting that many times has the downside of locking you in place significantly longer - might be a better idea to have a shorter volley with more damage per arrow. -Heavenly Shot needs a bit more work - the issue with it is largely because whiffing makes you do so little damage it isn't worth it. Ideally the 'off target' multiplier would be a little bit higher, and the 'on target' one slightly higher than vanilla but not straight up doubled. That and maybe reduce the stamina drain or cost a bit, because its damage downscales heavily the lower your stamina leftover is and that's what really nerfs its damage, alongside the brutally low multiplier for a whiff.
-Mage charge time multipliers seem a little strange. You cast... faster while walking? Am I reading that right? -Flagration could use less 'locked-in' time after cast, as can Levin. Maybe Levin follow-ups could get a slight increase? -Status factor nerfs for Thief and Archer seem slightly excessive. 0.2x seems brutally low in particular, and while 1.5x is probably too much given Spiral Shot exists, maybe 1.2 or something might be better for Archer?
-Cutting Wind could use more damage to keep up as a crowd-killing tool. It is a good traversal option, at least. -Skullsplitter nerf seems excessive. Either reduce the stamina bump or reduce the nerf to its spin speed? Max speed getting cut down in particular seems pretty harsh, seeing as you'd need to be pretty high up to hit it anyway. It's also Thief's only consistent DPS option. In vanilla it's kinda busted, but 60% across the board for more stamina is overkill. -Concussive Leap could use a bit of a buff to its stagger value. Currently it's kind of just a buff to Skullsplitter/traversal tool. -I think Daikin's buff to plunder rarity is a good one that's unfortunately missing from this rebalance. Keeps items relevant into NG+, where these changes are intended to be placed. -Bump and Lift could get a proc chance increase - it's absurdly rare even with increased health bars off Combat Tweaks. -Formless Feint being so expensive actually kind of kills the one reliable way to use Blades of the Pyre... Could lower it JUST a tiny bit so that there's enough time to get off a couple pyre blasts? That, and/or make the animation locks on it or Pyre shorter instead while keeping the cost.
-Tidal Wrath parry frames are definitely too high. I think the other mod's approach of cutting the duration and reducing animation lockout is better than giving this one, what, two whole seconds at the game's default target of 30fps? -Arc of Might guaranteeing winded state is still what holds that one back; changing it to 80 or 90% stamina would help a lot with QoL.
-Bursting Bolt needs a bit more oomph and/or a bit faster charge time. -Thundermine and Hagol could use more damage, Thundermine more so. Even Salamander could use a bit of a bump, considering it's ground-bound. Or maybe a bit higher collision for Salamander, and more range/duration on the other two, if you aren't changing damage. -Augural Flare being 15s is excessive - practically guts the spell and makes a lot of hired pawns just break. I think just nerfing its total damage output or something would be better. And/or, nerf it more moderately like ~9-10s? Also, consider making its delay before vanishing or detonating longer - that would actually nerf how quick it is to deliver its damage, while making it easier to hit before it abruptly disappears. -Meteoron and Maelstrom's nerfs are kind of excessive. I don't think they need incant time increases - rather, I think other spells in the sorc kit need buffs to their damage or usability to help them keep up with the two nukes. In particular, Maelstrom being significantly slower than Meteoron makes little sense to me.
-Winding Cut might be a little too easy to input now - even Daikin's 5 inputs in 1 sec tends to get me locked into it too quickly, let alone 4/sec. Could be something like 4/0.8 or so. -Forbeding Bolt's second charge is still way too slow to be practical for anything - could be shortened, and while Forbeding is generally very powerful (especially against small mobs), that kind of seems like it's warranted with how much stronger your NG+ mods make enemies. -Magike Speregonne's biggest issue is actually the wild camera shake; reducing it by a bit would help it out way more. -Mirour Shelde duration cut could be a bit less aggressive. Especially with enemies tuned to be harder by default with True Difficulty. -Wild Furie could use more damage or a bit faster cast.
-Normal volley on Magick Archer will look a little... wrong with the shot count increased, since the reticle's designed for 8. Could just increase damage a bit, or reduce the time to full lock? -Pinpoint in general needs to lock on faster - Rivet Shot in vanilla always outclasses it. -Frosthunter's triple lock time is brutal, seeing as it was already one of the slowest to lock on. Seems like that actually makes it too slow to be practical. Ideally revert this one, or even make it faster for less damage? -Ricochet being doubled in charge time also seems excessive, even 1.5 or just lowering its damage would be more reasonable. Same thing goes for Recovery Arrow and Fortalice having 2x charge time and 0.5x duration respectively - if they must be nerfed, half that would be plenty. I don't think any of them need nerfs to charge time at all if this is meant to be used with True Difficulty though. -It's kind of insane that, amid all the nerfs, Martyr of all things got buffed. It's literally the most broken damage skill in the game. If it of all things warrants a buff, then the nerfs to the other skills seem excessive.
-Trickster suggestions: Increase the speed of censer swings; let the incense effigy cast a bit faster, have more health, not decay when changing weapons (to make Trickfarer viable), and increase the max distance before it despawns. Espial could be faster, Dragon's Delusion SLIGHTLY faster and better at 'parrying' super moves.
-Warfarer suggestions: Could use slightly better stats, and no stamina cost by default on Rearmament. Allowing Maister skills could be warranted, although True Warfarer has that covered for those who use it.
Sorry for all the comparisons to the other balance mod, but both have a lot of overlaps, while each one has different changes that I find better in one over the other (like the brilliant changes to Shadow Cloak here). I just think it would be great to get the best of both. Some nerfs like gutting a bunch of MA skills just don't seem justified, especially since they're supposed to be accounting for tougher enemies.
Skiedragoun’s Feste dive speed 0.35 to 0.8, height to 6
The height increase actually prevents (at least a lot of times) you from doing the skill followed by Forbeding Bolt while mid air (via Skiedragoun's Feste mid air cancel) because it doesn't detect enemies underneath you to track with the forbeding bolt.
For this reason only i'm uninstalling the mod, a lot of my combos require me to hit the enemies right underneath me with forbeding bolt/scattering bolt.
Thanks for the mod! Just a suggestion, you may want to package any stat changes separately from the skill changes. If I'm not mistaken, any stat changes on pawns will invalidate them for online for anyone not using the same mods. By packaging the stat changes separately it would allow people to still use your skill changes without invalidating their pawns.
The stat changes shouldn't apply outside of your local game though? I mean, the stats from the class are different due to the mod pak but it shouldn't apply to anyone else's game due to being re-calculated there?
My limited understanding of how the pawn system works is that it saves a snapshot of your pawn, stats and all, and throws it out into the network. Then each player's game is what validates whether the pawn is valid or not, not any code on the network. So if you've got a mod that gives your pawn extra stats like you've done with the vocation stats here, and that snapshot is what's up on the network, anyone without the mod will not see your pawn because it doesn't have correct stats according to their game. Supposedly anyone with identical stat change mods would be able to see the pawn though.
I can say that as of last night I did a fresh playthrough with this mod on and my pawn was hired like 10 times by the time I had my first rest in the city. I didn't have any of the other mods on, but can at least confirm that this particular one doesn't soft-lock your pawns out of being hired.
Used the latest version tonight and my rest just now as I closed the game had my pawn return (and I had like 5 or 6 others tonight before that), so it is still working in that regard.
Since Warfarer hasn't been touched as of yet, do they simply just inherit the skill changes or do they just use the vanilla skill's stats for casting them as a Warfarer?
I have to say it seems VERY bias that both Soc and Thief got hit with a major debuff, being both of them classes are one trick poney in this game. I see the usefulness of this Mod, but I can't use it because of the majority of them two hard nerfs.
As someone who played Sorcerer for an ENTIRE playthrough, the changes to them seem honestly very reasonable.
Meteor and Maelstrom are SO INCREDIBLY strong it inadvertently makes the Vocation boring. Never have to touch any other spells when dropping rocks on the enemy does the trick quicker and better, the raised chant times are more than reasonable for making those spells harder to perform in combat WHILE still retaining their firepower.
Can't speak on Thief as I haven't tried him extensively.
Unless Draw and Quarter is doing really big damage then I can't see how thief is competitive with the only skill that did substantial damage getting a 60% damage nerf and also a 50% increase in stamina cost.
I hate Skull Splitter in Vanilla (and Formless Feint) but I don't see any reason to take a thief if Draw and Quarter isn't going to do big damage (I rarely used it in Vanilla but I'm fairly sure you get one use per climb since you disengage after using it), and even if it does I feel like all that has happened is Thief is a one trick pony with a different, but less OP trick, which is a shame (not because the one trick isn't OP, but because basically it seems like the only way you'll do any notable damage is if you climb and use Draw and Quarter, which is very limited in application and puts it far behind the other classes in overall damage output and utility, since nearly all the other melee classes have far more in their kit from a utility perspective as well).
I'm not sure whether you nerfed or buffed Heavenward Sunder (it's hard to tell), but for the record, it was already the best Warrior ability due to its ability to hit the same (large) target up to 3 times. If anything it either needed a nerf, or just buffs to the other abilities instead.
With regards to Mystical Spearhand, Redoubted Bolt, when charged, is quite OP. It is just a free finisher which you can freely do back-to-back, effectively trivialising anything but bosses. I seriously recommend you look into nerfing it somehow, even making it only apply a slow effect, without opening enemies to finishers.
It would be more suitable to make it only opening enemies to finishers but not slowing them down. It's the slowdown that's OP. You can perma slow bosses at no cost...
The slowdown on bosses also needs to be toned down. When it comes to mobs it's the opening to finishers which is more OP, since an enemy in a finisher animation is not a threat to you anyway.
For Mystic Spearhand, I think you might be modifying Devout Offerage and Unto Heven wrong. Unto Heven has the vanilla stat of 0.7 and is known as "FarThrow" in the pak files and Devout Offerage is "PsychoShoot". Especially since Unto Heven shouldn't have a range modifier and only have a power modifier. The other balance mod on this site was also doing this until I pointed it out so I thought I'd bring it up here.
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The author has locked this comment topic for the time beingMight open this up again in the future if needed, but for now, you can of course continue to use it, but I would also recommend looking at the other vocation balance options available here as alternatives. :)
-Knockdown timer's just as brutally long in this one as vanilla... Maybe you could change up the knockdown time for players/pawns/NPCs so less of combat is spent on the ground?
-I think Daikin's parry values are good, and the ones here are occasionally overly generous. Hindsight Sweep in particular may be overbuffed? Perfect parries being 20f also seems a bit too high compared to a more balanced 15f.
-Aimed Shot really seems to need a bit of a nerf, because it's often just kind of better than using any skills. Especially if you're using the Medusan Spellbow.
-Manifold Shot hitting that many times has the downside of locking you in place significantly longer - might be a better idea to have a shorter volley with more damage per arrow.
-Heavenly Shot needs a bit more work - the issue with it is largely because whiffing makes you do so little damage it isn't worth it. Ideally the 'off target' multiplier would be a little bit higher, and the 'on target' one slightly higher than vanilla but not straight up doubled. That and maybe reduce the stamina drain or cost a bit, because its damage downscales heavily the lower your stamina leftover is and that's what really nerfs its damage, alongside the brutally low multiplier for a whiff.
-Mage charge time multipliers seem a little strange. You cast... faster while walking? Am I reading that right?
-Flagration could use less 'locked-in' time after cast, as can Levin. Maybe Levin follow-ups could get a slight increase?
-Status factor nerfs for Thief and Archer seem slightly excessive. 0.2x seems brutally low in particular, and while 1.5x is probably too much given Spiral Shot exists, maybe 1.2 or something might be better for Archer?
-Cutting Wind could use more damage to keep up as a crowd-killing tool. It is a good traversal option, at least.
-Skullsplitter nerf seems excessive. Either reduce the stamina bump or reduce the nerf to its spin speed? Max speed getting cut down in particular seems pretty harsh, seeing as you'd need to be pretty high up to hit it anyway. It's also Thief's only consistent DPS option. In vanilla it's kinda busted, but 60% across the board for more stamina is overkill.
-Concussive Leap could use a bit of a buff to its stagger value. Currently it's kind of just a buff to Skullsplitter/traversal tool.
-I think Daikin's buff to plunder rarity is a good one that's unfortunately missing from this rebalance. Keeps items relevant into NG+, where these changes are intended to be placed.
-Bump and Lift could get a proc chance increase - it's absurdly rare even with increased health bars off Combat Tweaks.
-Formless Feint being so expensive actually kind of kills the one reliable way to use Blades of the Pyre... Could lower it JUST a tiny bit so that there's enough time to get off a couple pyre blasts? That, and/or make the animation locks on it or Pyre shorter instead while keeping the cost.
-Tidal Wrath parry frames are definitely too high. I think the other mod's approach of cutting the duration and reducing animation lockout is better than giving this one, what, two whole seconds at the game's default target of 30fps?
-Arc of Might guaranteeing winded state is still what holds that one back; changing it to 80 or 90% stamina would help a lot with QoL.
-Bursting Bolt needs a bit more oomph and/or a bit faster charge time.
-Thundermine and Hagol could use more damage, Thundermine more so. Even Salamander could use a bit of a bump, considering it's ground-bound. Or maybe a bit higher collision for Salamander, and more range/duration on the other two, if you aren't changing damage.
-Augural Flare being 15s is excessive - practically guts the spell and makes a lot of hired pawns just break. I think just nerfing its total damage output or something would be better. And/or, nerf it more moderately like ~9-10s? Also, consider making its delay before vanishing or detonating longer - that would actually nerf how quick it is to deliver its damage, while making it easier to hit before it abruptly disappears.
-Meteoron and Maelstrom's nerfs are kind of excessive. I don't think they need incant time increases - rather, I think other spells in the sorc kit need buffs to their damage or usability to help them keep up with the two nukes. In particular, Maelstrom being significantly slower than Meteoron makes little sense to me.
-Winding Cut might be a little too easy to input now - even Daikin's 5 inputs in 1 sec tends to get me locked into it too quickly, let alone 4/sec. Could be something like 4/0.8 or so.
-Forbeding Bolt's second charge is still way too slow to be practical for anything - could be shortened, and while Forbeding is generally very powerful (especially against small mobs), that kind of seems like it's warranted with how much stronger your NG+ mods make enemies.
-Magike Speregonne's biggest issue is actually the wild camera shake; reducing it by a bit would help it out way more.
-Mirour Shelde duration cut could be a bit less aggressive. Especially with enemies tuned to be harder by default with True Difficulty.
-Wild Furie could use more damage or a bit faster cast.
-Normal volley on Magick Archer will look a little... wrong with the shot count increased, since the reticle's designed for 8. Could just increase damage a bit, or reduce the time to full lock?
-Pinpoint in general needs to lock on faster - Rivet Shot in vanilla always outclasses it.
-Frosthunter's triple lock time is brutal, seeing as it was already one of the slowest to lock on. Seems like that actually makes it too slow to be practical. Ideally revert this one, or even make it faster for less damage?
-Ricochet being doubled in charge time also seems excessive, even 1.5 or just lowering its damage would be more reasonable. Same thing goes for Recovery Arrow and Fortalice having 2x charge time and 0.5x duration respectively - if they must be nerfed, half that would be plenty. I don't think any of them need nerfs to charge time at all if this is meant to be used with True Difficulty though.
-It's kind of insane that, amid all the nerfs, Martyr of all things got buffed. It's literally the most broken damage skill in the game. If it of all things warrants a buff, then the nerfs to the other skills seem excessive.
-Trickster suggestions: Increase the speed of censer swings; let the incense effigy cast a bit faster, have more health, not decay when changing weapons (to make Trickfarer viable), and increase the max distance before it despawns. Espial could be faster, Dragon's Delusion SLIGHTLY faster and better at 'parrying' super moves.
-Warfarer suggestions: Could use slightly better stats, and no stamina cost by default on Rearmament. Allowing Maister skills could be warranted, although True Warfarer has that covered for those who use it.
Sorry for all the comparisons to the other balance mod, but both have a lot of overlaps, while each one has different changes that I find better in one over the other (like the brilliant changes to Shadow Cloak here). I just think it would be great to get the best of both. Some nerfs like gutting a bunch of MA skills just don't seem justified, especially since they're supposed to be accounting for tougher enemies.
The height increase actually prevents (at least a lot of times) you from doing the skill followed by Forbeding Bolt while mid air (via Skiedragoun's Feste mid air cancel) because it doesn't detect enemies underneath you to track with the forbeding bolt.
For this reason only i'm uninstalling the mod, a lot of my combos require me to hit the enemies right underneath me with forbeding bolt/scattering bolt.
Just a suggestion, you may want to package any stat changes separately from the skill changes. If I'm not mistaken, any stat changes on pawns will invalidate them for online for anyone not using the same mods. By packaging the stat changes separately it would allow people to still use your skill changes without invalidating their pawns.
Still good job with this mod :D
Meteor and Maelstrom are SO INCREDIBLY strong it inadvertently makes the Vocation boring. Never have to touch any other spells when dropping rocks on the enemy does the trick quicker and better, the raised chant times are more than reasonable for making those spells harder to perform in combat WHILE still retaining their firepower.
Can't speak on Thief as I haven't tried him extensively.
I hate Skull Splitter in Vanilla (and Formless Feint) but I don't see any reason to take a thief if Draw and Quarter isn't going to do big damage (I rarely used it in Vanilla but I'm fairly sure you get one use per climb since you disengage after using it), and even if it does I feel like all that has happened is Thief is a one trick pony with a different, but less OP trick, which is a shame (not because the one trick isn't OP, but because basically it seems like the only way you'll do any notable damage is if you climb and use Draw and Quarter, which is very limited in application and puts it far behind the other classes in overall damage output and utility, since nearly all the other melee classes have far more in their kit from a utility perspective as well).
With regards to Mystical Spearhand, Redoubted Bolt, when charged, is quite OP. It is just a free finisher which you can freely do back-to-back, effectively trivialising anything but bosses. I seriously recommend you look into nerfing it somehow, even making it only apply a slow effect, without opening enemies to finishers.