Dragon Age 2

The future of Vortex and the Nexus Mods app

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Back in October 2022, we announced the arrival of Tim (Halgari) to the Nexus Mods team. We touched briefly on the future of Vortex and potential 2.0 updates. Things went a bit ‘stealth mode’ after that, so now it’s time to give more of an update on how the team has developed and how we see the next generation of mod management. This is going to be a long one, so buckle up!


A brief history of Vortex

Development of Vortex first began all the way back in 2016. At the time our team at Nexus Mods consisted of Tannin (Seb) as the sole developer of the mod manager, several backend developers who were primarily focused on running and maintaining the Nexus Mods website, and a couple of Community Managers. Since then, we've expanded our team and resources dramatically, including founding entire departments that didn't exist before, specifically Front End, Design and Product. While we are incredibly proud of Vortex - a staggeringly versatile mod manager and an undeniable successor to Nexus Mods Manager - it is a product of its time. With our new teams in place, we believe that we can do even better (more on that later in this post).

It is with a touch of sadness that we formally announce Seb's departure. He left Nexus Mods on amicable terms approximately two months ago. We want to extend our heartfelt gratitude for his unwavering dedication, hard work and professionalism, and wish him the best in his future endeavours.

Seb's journey in creating Vortex was not undertaken alone. In 2018, Nagev (Adrian) joined the team and played a pivotal role in developing several impressive extensions and frameworks for the application. Unfortunately, Adrian had to leave abruptly in 2022 due to health concerns and is also sorely missed.

With the departure of the original Vortex developers, we close one chapter and begin another. Our mod management application is of such significant importance and it has taken some time to find the right talent to take it forward. For over a year, we've been steadily assembling a new team to take our app development to the next level.





The future of Vortex

We recruited Insomnious (Simon) back in February to collaborate with Tannin and continue work on Vortex. If you follow the GitHub activity, changelogs, or have spent some time in the Vortex forums you might've seen him around already. Simon has a background in creating modding tools for Unity games.

Simon's work on Vortex can be seen in the last few releases and include better support for Markdown in collection instructions, error-handling improvements and enhancements to how Vortex displays and detects changes to Premium membership. The most significant change he has authored so far is the shift to using OAuth for Vortex login, aligning it with other apps. 

When asked about Vortex's current state, Insomnious praised its power and modular design but acknowledges the challenges of catering to a diverse user base. Users range from casual gamers to dedicated modders, and the goal is to make modding more inclusive while accommodating experts. Community feedback varies, with some wanting more upfront information and others seeking a gentler learning curve.

Future plans for Vortex include improved communication of updates, error-handling enhancements, and expanded game support. The most exciting update is a new default theme that aligns Vortex's interface with the Nexus Mods website. Dashboard updates are planned to ease the new user experience. Behind the scenes, efforts are focused on optimizing development pipelines and documentation.

Vortex will continue to be our primary, supported mod manager for the foreseeable future and will be the application that we provide to support modding for upcoming titles such as Starfield.





The Nexus Mods App

Alongside the continued development of Vortex, Tim (Halgari) has put together a new team of experienced developers from the community to begin work on our next generation of mod management software - dubbed the "Nexus Mods App". The app team combines the skills of developers who have worked on Vortex, Mod Organizer 2, Wabbajack and several other modding tools. 

The Nexus Mods App will be a ground-up reimagining of what we (and you) want our mod manager to be, building on the lessons learnt from Vortex and NMM before that. 

Mat (Demorphic) caught up with Tim about the new project and his new team to answer what we're sure are some of your burning questions.


Halgari, how has it been since joining Nexus Mods, did a specific vision exist for our mod manager, or was this something you had quite a lot of freedom with?

It’s been great, I think it’s a dream for many software engineers to turn their hobby into a full-time job. So being able to work on modding tools, and mod managers has in many ways been a life goal fulfilled.

As far as the vision for the app goes, I have been given a lot of trust and freedom. Being told to “go build the right thing, we trust you” is both empowering and daunting.

I have a strong background in software engineering, and I've spent ~20 years working on large computing systems. I also spent well over a decade writing code in a programming language called Clojure

Something that was pushed heavily in the Clojure community was the concept of “rethinking your designs in the context of new advancements in technology”. For example, these days most computers have SSDs and multi-core processors, we should leverage this as the “new norm” especially when considering how the environment will change by the time we end up launching an application. 

So after joining Nexus Mods, I spent a good 2-3 months researching existing mod managers, writing prototypes, and figuring out how I could apply lessons I’ve learned in my career to mod managers. I also spent time nailing down the technology I wanted to use for this work. Every programming language has its good and bad sides, and so I spent some time writing these all up in a matrix of the requirements our project had, and the benefits of each language. In the end, I landed on C# and Avalonia as a great middle-ground of excellent productivity, extremely performant code, and cross-platform support. 


It looks like instead of building a “Vortex 2” or iterating our current mod manager, you want to go back and build mod management from the ground up, why is that?

In many ways, this is a “Vortex 2” just under a different name. The name change from “Vortex” to “The Nexus Mods App” is a marketing decision more than anything. We realised that a lot of new users didn’t know why a thing called “Vortex” should be central to their modding workflow. In addition, even the term “mod manager” is foreign to a lot of users, we were getting feedback along the lines of “I don’t make mods, why do I need a manager for them, I just want to install mods?”. So while “the App” is a rather sterile and boring title it instantly conveys what the app does. If you want to run Discord on your desktop you download the “Discord App”, if you want to install mods from Nexus Mods, download the “Nexus Mods App”. 


Can you talk a bit about your thought process when deciding whether to keep adding functionality to Vortex or take a different approach?

Certainly. First of all decisions like this are always hard to make, and should never be taken lightly. My main approach in analysing what to do with a project like this is to look at the existing app, and the issues with it, identify why things were designed the way they are, and figure out if those requirements and rationales still stand, or if new technologies render some of these requirements moot.

Vortex was designed to be maintained mostly by one person, acting as the community coordinator. It was designed to be a shell into which a lot of extensions could be injected. In addition, it was developed in Node.js, primarily with Windows in mind. 

But the world has shifted a bit in several regards. Nexus Mods now has funds available to operate a small team of developers to focus specifically on our app (we currently have 5 programmers, a UI designer and a project manager), so this means we can take on more work. Relying primarily on volunteer work means that when something goes wrong with the support for some game, we have to kindly ask people to spend their unpaid free time fixing a bug. If we have more people on the project and work in a more centralised, but open community, we can fix these bugs ourselves and keep a higher level of quality control on the project. 

In addition, while Node.JS was probably a good choice when Vortex was created, in the meantime other technologies have come out that allow for much greater performance, flexibility and simplicity in app design. Specifically, we’re basing the app on .NET and Avalonia. These tools are cross-platform and are performant enough that we don’t need to write submodules in C or other languages. 

So to summarise, in order to get Vortex to the place we wanted it to be, we would have had to rewrite large portions of the application and at that point, we might as well rewrite it in a platform more closely aligned with our long-term goals. 


It looks like you have pulled together a very talented team to help you out, who are these guys?

We’ve been looking for the right people to support the development of the Nexus Mods App. We now have the team assembled.

Simon (Insomnious) has been a Unity developer for some time and has quickly picked up the ins and outs of Vortex, so he’s heading up Vortex (as mentioned above).

Florian (erri120) and I have worked together for quite some time on Wabbajack, and he also has been heavily involved with Mutagen (patching library for Bethesda games) and has written the Game finder library we use in the app. 

Seweryn (Sewer56) has built several modding frameworks and brings with him a lot of experience with micro-optimization, reverse engineering, and low-level knowledge, as well as experience with some of the more arcane parts of .NET like native interop, function hooking, etc. 

Gabriel (AL12), most people know from his work as a lead developer on the Mod Organizer 2 project. It’s great to have someone on the team with a wealth of experience in mod management, game modding and open-source development.



Thanks, it’s good to get that additional insight. Your philosophy on development appears to be very open and collaborative. Are you keen on involving the modding community in Nexus Mods App development?

Absolutely, I’ve been a big proponent of open-source software development almost since I started programming in the early 90s. As a manager told me years ago: “Lock a developer in a room for two weeks and they’ll come out convinced the code they wrote is the best thing ever designed by humankind”. In other words, being open to input and suggestions from the community is a great way to get a new perspective on your work, and to find out what’s working for people and what needs to be improved. 

While we anticipate doing the majority of the work on the app ourselves, we would love to get more people involved in the project. The code is open source (GPL3), and the toolchain is quite easy to set up, just install your C# IDE of choice, hit “build” and you’re good to go. 


Nexus Mods App will be open source. Why do you feel open source is the way forward, regardless of the risks?

Open-source development is critical to the success of almost any modding application. First of all, open-source code is free for anyone to read, and audit. This means it’s much harder for bad actors to develop code that has ulterior motives.

Now obviously, Nexus Mods has to make money, but we do so via visitors to the site and premium subscriptions. This means that success for a mod manager is encouraging more modding, which aligns well with the goals of the users. Users want to mod games, we want to write tools that make it easier for them to mod games. 

Open source is really the only way to build a project like this, because otherwise the financial incentives are all off, if a modding app is paid or closed source, it only makes the users want to use the application less. Likewise, if we made the mod manager a premium-only feature, we would be discouraging new users from trying the app on a whim. So while like any for-profit company, the goal of the app is to drive increased engagement and subscription, the best way to do this is to encourage more modding via a completely free, 100% open-source application.




What's the current status of the app?

The Nexus Mods App is considered pre-alpha which means it's not suitable for use by the general public. We are open to community developers trying it out if you're interested in collaborating or sharing feedback with our team on it, but you should not attempt to use any build of the app as a daily driver for modding yet as this can (and at this point, will) break your modding setup. 

We are building the app to milestones, so you can track the progress towards each major goal by checking out the GitHub page. No timelines will be provided for these milestones as we're working towards a level of quality rather than a set date. 


I want to know more. How do I get involved?

If you're fluent in C# and would like to learn more about the Nexus Mods app, you can visit the GitHub repository here. There you can read about the technical decisions driving the fundamental design of the app, see open tasks/milestones for planned features and download preview builds. It's worth noting that 80% of the work so far has been on the "back end" of the project and the current UI is not an accurate representation of what we've done so far. 

We're not looking for user feedback quite yet, but we'll be sure to make it hard to miss once we do get to that stage! 

In the meantime, you can continue to vote on your favourite suggestions for Vortex on our feedback board. Vortex will remain our primary, supported mod manager for the foreseeable future but we'll keep you updated on the progress of the Nexus Mods App through our site news and forums. 

423 comments

  1. Grandsome
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    Just call it Nexus Maelstrom App, if the thing is good enough, people will know what's it for; case and point: "Google".
  2. Zanderat
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    I would love to know who they polled to come to the conclusion that the term “mod manager” is confusing.  It’s been used since at least Oblivion and across multiple games besides Bethesda games, such as TW3, Dragon Age, etc. 
    1. CoffeeSorcerer69
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      Whoever thought that is genuinely cringe, and probably wears jorts.
    2. Wolfpack49
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      Have to agree. These 3 active names will create confusion:

      Nexus Mod Manager
      Vortex
      Nexus Mods App

      There is already confusion between NMM and Vortex. I’d suggest a riff off Vortex to build continuity and brand recognition. People know after 7 years that Vortex is the mod manager sponsored by Nexus. 

      Vortex 2.0
      Vortex Next
      Vortex NG

      And although there may be some resistance to “Vortex” it has started to gain traction and good reputation with users despite MO2 fans attempts to smear it. Just make it Vortex but better. 
    3. Zanderat
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      Vortex 2.0 works for me.  Continuity is good.
    4. AugustaCalidia
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      Vortex 2.0 sounds good to me as well.

    5. NeoNord
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      Amen
    6. halgari
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      The answer to that question is: it's me. I had the final say on the name of the project, although I did talk with a lot of people ahead of time. I get that names are important to people, and people love to workshop (or bikeshed) them, but it's pretty set in stone at this point. If we do our job well, how "boring" or "cringe" or "corporate" or "market-y" the name is won't matter. In the end what matters is how well the application works. 
    7. Zanderat
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      From the article
      we were getting feedback along the lines of “I don’t make mods, why do I need a manager for them, I just want to install mods?.... If you want to run Discord on your desktop you download the “Discord App””
      So the question was actually, feedback from whom?  Who did you poll to determine that the term "mod manager" was confusing?  So judging by your answer, you polled yourself?  Statistically speaking, that's a pretty small sample size. 

      Btw, no one says "discord app".
    8. Wunderhund
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      I Am all for naming it Bob.
    9. Wolfpack49
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      Just be prepared for churn and moderator frustration as users ask for help but get the NMM vs Vortex vs NMA acronym wrong. They already do it today with NMM and Vortex so add another level of confusion to that. 

      This isn’t about trendiness vs corporate vs markety, it’s about clarity and continuity for everyone. Just witness the AE vs SE churn and confusion. 
    10. DarkDominion
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      @Wolfpack49 
      " I’d suggest a riff off Vortex to build continuity and brand recognition. People know after 7 years that Vortex is the mod manager sponsored by Nexus " 
      This ^^^

      (and good to see you too )

      @Zanderat agreed
    11. rizlakingsize
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      There is unfortunately nothing the devs can do about people with the literacy of a 1st grader Wolfpack. Those people should not be using mods. 
    12. YourDeathWillCome
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      Probably the same person who came up with this: "Mod authors work tirelessly and without financial gain to share their creations with you free of charge on Nexus Mods."

      Modding is a hobby, one the mod-maker is not obliged to do and can stop at any time. I collect stamps, I don't pretend that makes me special.
    13. Gyzzidonth
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      halgari
      23 August 2023, 4:14PM The answer to that question is: it's me. I had the final say on the name of the project, although I did talk with a lot of people ahead of time. I get that names are important to people, and people love to workshop (or bikeshed) them, but it's pretty set in stone at this point. If we do our job well, how "boring" or "cringe" or "corporate" or "market-y" the name is won't matter. In the end what matters is how well the application works. 


      So.... you do wear jorts then?
    14. DragonAvatar
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      Exactly.
      If you want to download Discord...you call it...wait for it.... DISCORD..
      If you want to use Discord...you dont say: "oh im gonna load up the Discord app" you just call it Discord.
      Not Discord communications manager and also not Discord app..

      Whoever calls it so, is very detached from reality and if he wants to call Vortex 2 the "Nexus Mods app" because he likes it..
      then this is a very bad descision, based on the opinion of 1 person alone that apparently needs to add "app" to everything...
      as if it adds to its importance...because it doesnt add to clarify what it is or does and just sounds abhorrently stupid, just some word salad.

      This crappy naming has to be revoked and put up for vote by the community.

      Vortex has had a hard time establishing itself, but it managed to do so and gained recognition as a good reliable tool, far exceeding NMM and pretty much trading blows with MO2 and its userbase, which is something crappy old NMM wouldnt even dare to dream about...

      And now some dude wants to throw that over board and crap on continuity and well established branding.
      Just because he likes it, you cant make that s#*! up, sounds like something the new "manager", and it sounds like one with all the senseless marketing blabla, would do in a company to throw his weight around and make everyone and everything miserable with it.

      Pro tip:
      r/slash malicious compliance is full with stories about such individuals...maybe read them or listen to them on YT or so and learn a thing or two...
      otherwise we might hear some story later on r/slash am i the butthole?...

      /rant off.
    15. ladyaurora
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      Wunderhund
      23 August 2023, 4:50PM
      I Am all for naming it Bob.

      Great minds
    16. Wolfpack49
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      ok, ok don’t want to get TOO mad over it, just saying you’ve worked hard to establish a brand name and even getting it just about feature even with MO2. Strongly advise you BUILD on that name recognition rather than start over on a new name. 

      It’s more than enough your are building from the ground up, which is great news!
    17. tylanol86
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      i also would love to know who the heck was polled. i didn't get an email so it wasn't us users
    18. Zanderat
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      @halgari has not really answered the question.  It may seem trivial, but literally no one is confused about what a mod manager does.  And the fact that it is presented as a big huge stumbling block to most people is disingenuous at best. 
    19. 1ae0bfb8
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      the name is the first thing people see and the first thing they react to. way before they get to even use it.

      "nexus mods app".

      i bet that took so much brainstorming and angst before you came up with the final decision to go with that. i dont envy you the sleepless nights before you made that decision.
    20. staberind
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      -ahem-
      "Jortex"

      *Makes sure the lights are reflecting off my glasses just so*
      "Get in the Jortex, Shinji"
    21. Xaliber13
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      @halgari
      The answer to that question is: it's me. I had the final say on the name of the project, although I did talk with a lot of people ahead of time. I get that names are important to people, and people love to workshop (or bikeshed) them, but it's pretty set in stone at this point. If we do our job well, how "boring" or "cringe" or "corporate" or "market-y" the name is won't matter. In the end what matters is how well the application works.

      With much respect, troubleshooting should be also a part of the equation.

      I have to help users troubleshoot Vortex in a regular basis, and I can tell you people confuse Vortex with NMM all the time. Renaming it to Vortex Mod App will only add to the confusion.

      Of course my evidence is also anecdotal, but as the product lead you should have a stronger evidence to make a case. 

      Please do share how and who you surveyed.

      Again, this is NOT about the name being cringe or whatever, it's about how people like me have to deal with confused users.
    22. 1ae0bfb8
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      Btw, no one says "discord app"

      i had never seen those two words in the same sentence until this news item, nor have i ever heard anyone call it that live.
      I should point out that in order to remain consistent with this design reason, nexusmods need to update their website so that everywhere it mentions "discord" it is altered to "discord app", because it just rolls off the tongue and marries into the new strategy seamlessly.
    23. Wolfpack49
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      With much respect, troubleshooting should be also a part of the equation.

      I have to help users troubleshoot Vortex in a regular basis, and I can tell you people confuse Vortex with NMM all the time. Renaming it to Vortex Mod App will only add to the confusion.

      Again, this is NOT about the name being cringe or whatever, it's about how people like me have to deal with confused users.
      THIS. 
    24. aboomer420
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      but it's pretty set in stone at this point

      What point, pre-alpha? Work this out guys. Don't make it more confusing. Vortex is good - it makes contextual sense with Nexus and they both have that -ex sound. Whatever the reason, you guys really need to reconsider. Marketing people are almost always out of touch.

      Honestly, as a Nexus user since 2008 I have to say having it not called a Mod Manager will be confusing and strange.
    25. Zanderat
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      It’s amazing to me how tone deaf both the proposed new name is and more importantly, just how arrogant and (again) tone deaf @halgari’s response was.

      BTW, still waiting on how it was determined that the term “mod manager” was sooooooo confusing…………..
    26. Graybark
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      The only tone-deaf responses are coming from your direction, Zanderat. They're announcing major changes in their app development, and you're fucking complaining about the name.
    27. halgari
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      Let me address this head-on then: I consider the name to be a non-issue. I hear your feedback and will take it under consideration, but at this point we have no plans to change the name. As far as whom we asked, we've had several usability polls and questionares we've sent out over the past years and this has been a common enough feedback item that it has caused us to decide to make this change. 

      I know this is something that many people have differering opinions on, but in the end a decision has to be made, and after seeking input from a lot of people at the Nexus and reviewing our options this naming is the decision I came to. 

      Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy a few more pairs of jorts. 
    28. Zanderat
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      @Graybark. No.  There is a larger point here.  Yes, the name is dumb.  But pushing the narrative that most modders are confused by the term “mod manager” without citing any actual stats or research results seems off.  I simply don’t believe anyone is confused by such a common term used across multiple platforms and games.

      edit:  @halgari response above posted while I typing this out.  So no point in beating a dead jorts wearing horse anymore.
    29. 4estGimp
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      @Wolfpack49

      Have to agree. These 3 active names will create confusion:


      3 Names?  That's actually 4 names because there is the old Nexus Mod Manager and the new Github Nexus Mod Manager.   The users rarely distinguish between the two and just say they use NMM.  So that makes it even worse.
    30. zclayton
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      I see Mod App and I wonder what it does.  it is not intuitive, it is confusing with NMM,  At least Vortex is different enough to not get it confused unless you shouldn't be let out on your own.   Oh, and it is not "set in stone" until it is either released to the public, or the developer is just to enamored with it to accept voluminous feedback.  Consider GMs name flop with the Chevy Nova, they didn't consider that a signigficant portion of their market spoke Spanish and didn't want a car  named "no go".  Mod App strikes me the same way.
    31. AugustaCalidia
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      Given this nomenclature brouhaha, may I propose a compromise?

      Program Name: Vortex 2.0

      Program Description: a Nexus Mods app for organizing and managing your downloaded mods

      Keeping the name "Vortex" would preserve the brand and make excellent marketing sense, in my opinion.   Using the phrase "Nexus Mods app" in the program description would inform the user that Vortex is a Nexus Mods tool designed for mod management.

      As it stands, the currently proposed program name "Nexus Mods app" may very well generate more and not less confusion. 
    32. lefttounge
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      Vortex isn't bad, it's just that Vortex forces LOOT. LOOT is never something that should be forced on a user, especially if you already have like over 200 mods.
      I can't tell you how many times I used Vortex with an existing playthrough, only for it to immediately force LOOT without telling me, and completely destroy my entire game, it's done that with both Skyrim playthroughs, and Fallout 4. LOOT will do insane things like take esms and place them all the way at the bottom, or place JK Skyrim and place them all the way at the top. 
      This no doubt will cause instant crash every time. 
      If Vortex can just not force LOOT, then I wouldn't mind using it. I also found it saves things in funny places, why does it have it's own folder system, when it really should just save right in the Skyrim's data folder system? that always boggled the mind.
      I've been using Nexus mod manager, and even after using Mod Organizer, I see higher hopes in nmm.
      Please don't remove nmm, as that's been a modding staple, at least for me
    33. JuiceSymbiote
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      Vortex sounds good imo. Vortex 2.0 better.
    34. 1ae0bfb8
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      so you'll consider the feedback, but the name's not changing.
      great, thanks for the insight and the opportunity to liaise with you on such a non-issue.

      i can see that feedback that doesn't fit your perview isn't welcome. nice to get that out in the open early doors.
    35. 1ae0bfb8
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      vortex doesn't "force" anything. if you don't want to use loot you can disable that feature with a single click.
      but you know this already.
    36. Wolfpack49
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      All you have to do to disable loot is turn off Autosort. 
    37. halgari
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      Project design and management is a complicated topic, but I would like to address something here since it's been brought up. Open source works best when there are open contribution processes, and codebases, but firm leadership. Projects that are ruled by public opinion, majority votes, or the like tend to suffer from lack of cohesive vision. There needs to be someone who says, (as the old saying goes) "the buck stops here". That means when there are several valid approaches to a problem, someone needs to be the one who makes the final decision. In this case, that person is me. I was hired to make those decisions, and to bear the consequences of them. 

      These are not decisions that I take lightly. As mentioned in the article, many of the decisions on this project took me weeks or months to come to a concensous on, and I only did so after talking with many people, getting advice from leaders in the community and pulling from my existing experience in modding, software engineering, and project management. So to say I don't value feedback simply because I don't agree with you on this specific topic, is a bit reductive. Any given design question has many facets to it, pros, cons, etc. All of those facets have to be weighted by complexity and risk. And when that information has been gathered a decision has to be made. The name of the project is a decision that was made months ago, and there's little reason to reconsider it at this point. If there does come a time when I need to reconsider the naming of the project I'll certainly take what you've said into account. But to continue to re-evaluate every decision everytime someone asks is unproductive. 

      Hopefully that clears it up a bit.
    38. 1ae0bfb8
      1ae0bfb8
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      why do you feel the need to bulk out your reply with your cv?
    39. Rdowney0802
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      I see people on Facebook who are super confused often. I guess you just don't go to the same.places I do. I imagine they have gotten similar feedback.
    40. Zanderat
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      I still see no point in catering to those who can’t be bothered to even learn what a mod manager is.
    41. dalantoc
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      I'd vote for Bob.

      That, or "Torvex 77".
    42. TheHorizonfall
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      I think I get the idea. You want to cater to a very clueless demographic. It someone who doesn't even know what a "mod manager" is can use the "NMA", then mission accomplished? That would greatly popularize modding and the site. The idea is great, but I wonder if it'll be viable for active game development/mod development? Modders generally work separately, so even if one day NMA puts together a modlist for Clueless User 1, some time will pass and then one mod updates with a incompatibility, whether with another mod, previous version, game update, etc, etc, it'll be hard for create a seamless enough environment to get Clueless User 1 through it. Good luck.
    43. lefttounge
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      @Wolfpack49 
      Well it feels like Vortex forces LOOT. It's good to know I can switch that thing off, I did already know that I could do it, but I struggle to actually tell 'where' to find the off button for that
      I still prefer Nexus Mod Manager as my first choice, even over Mod organizer. Mod organizer would be my second choice. But with Nexus mod manager, it's interface is easy, short simple and to the point. It puts things where they should go, and easy for me to use. Maybe it just soothes my ADHD driven eyes, but that's just me.
    44. FireOogle
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      I'm not really bothered what its called but Halgari says it doesn't matter what its called, its how well it works, but how will people find out how well it works if they don't know what it does, and nexus mod app doesn't tell me what it does. 
    45. Wookie120
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      Sounds to me like some Second Lieutenant has had his authority questioned and is trying to show what a big bad person he is by pulling rank.  Saw it a lot in The Army, used to crack me up how they would crap themselves that a mere enlisted man disagreed with his/her flawed theory.  Word of advice from a veteran, listen to those old NCO's, there purpose is to train 2nd Loots so they survive their first battle, and do not get fragged by their own troopers! In case you are confused on who the Old NCO's are, those would be the people who have been bringing us, the gamers, the great mods that you see on the Nexus website.  Thank you very much!  Oh, for your lack of knowledge an NCO is a Non Commissioned Officer, also know as the backbone of The Army.
    46. showler
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      More like the General (Project Manager) is getting "arm-chair quarterbacked" by a bunch of civilians who lack any of the information said General is basing their decision on.
    47. DarkDominion
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      @1ae0bfb8,
       i can see that feedback that doesn't fit your perview isn't welcome. nice to get that out in the open early doors.
      Can't blame halgari for that, he's just an employee. It's how the company works.

      @halgari,
      Open source works best when there are open contribution processes, and codebases, but firm leadership.
      +
      ' . . . after talking with many people, getting advice from leaders in the community
      I actually doubt that, but I'll meet you half way if you drop that "firm" in there, because just leadership in an Open Source Project will suffice.

      Back on the naming scheme : when was this an " open contribution processes " and who were these "many people"  because some of us seem to have missed that memo ?
      And who are these " leaders in the community "?
      Since when does our modding community have a, or multiple, leader(s) and who are they according to you ?

      Projects that are ruled by public opinion, majority votes, or the like tend to suffer from lack of cohesive vision. There needs to be someone who says, (as the old saying goes) "the buck stops here".
      " . . .  and there it is friends! the ugly truth ! " ~~ Heimskr

      Third sentence in and democracy is already down the drain. What happened to the Nexus being a modding community that is (like they always say)  "for the people, by the people" and it being open for ideas and suggestions ?

      " .... tend suffer from lack of cohesive vision ". . .
      That one really hurts man, you know ? Really....
      What is implied about this community, is that they will never be able to get projects and ideas off the ground because they are not able to form a cohesive vision on how/when/why a project or idea will be successful. Last I looked this was still a community of modders. How are they unable to form a realistic and shared vision on a project ? Isn't that what they do when they create or use mods ? I do not understand this at all.

      " Over and over again, studies show that creating a cohesive vision is all about listening to others' perspectives. The only way to make a vision stick long-term is to make sure it is truly shared. That means it has to speak to the goals and aspirations of more than just one person. " (or some leaders)
      Just something I learned back in my days as a manager.

      I was hired to make those decisions, and to bear the consequences of them.
      The consequence right now is democracy being skipped,  a real public opinion on this matter was never apprehended and pushing this makes it look like the future of the Nexus depends on it.

      And I think more people fear for all the other ideas that are yet to be conceived. Will they be handled in the same matter ? Because that really is the underlying thought here. I think most of us would like to have a good working product rather than a shiny name. The final product matters most.
      But if that final product lacks the shared vision of the people that use that product, said product will be used far less frequently if it is being used at all. So yeah, for now it's just a name for a mod manager... What else will be decided about this and future products ?

      We just want to know why it was decided like this and what was done in the process to come to this "final" conclusion ?  I think that these are the questions that people would like to get answered if you can ?
      And yes, the name will also be final. We all know that the name will not be changed in the future.

      Cheers
      -=DD=-
    48. Wolfpack49
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      Maj. Eaton: We have top men working on it now. 
      Indiana: Who?
      Maj. Eaton: Top... men.
    49. WinglessFlight
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      im just hoping you guys make a better app then Vortex
    50. Kuroth
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      They likely added the 'app' to apeal to investor's lack of tech knowledge, as this mod manager is more about finding better ways to monetize Nexus and the mods placed here by mod authors. 
    51. PuterPro
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      @halgari - 
      To start - PLEASE understand the following is totally "Tough Love" in nature.

      After reading and re-reading carefully all the comments here, I must absolutely agree with @Wookie120 :
      "Sounds to me like some Second Lieutenant has had his authority questioned and is trying to show what a big bad person he is by pulling rank.  Saw it a lot in The Army".
      I saw the same in the Navy. You're coming across as "I'm smart, I'm in charge, and you people have no idea of how difficult this is but I've made my decision, get lost!" I think the words I'm looking for are Arrogant and Entitled.

      I've been in the Electronics & Computer industry since we programmed by hand, throwing switches for each command. I've seen, and done, a lot more than 90% of the people here (yes, including You, my Friend), but I would NEVER take the tone you've taken. Never.

      Names matter. Confusion for those new to Modding matter. Heck even experienced people will be confused by the name you're insisting on, there's no continuity. Now it's a THIRD name?? No. Doesn't work. Also - dropping an 'App' on the end doesn't make it cool or differentiate it, it just sounds affected, a 'putting on of airs' if you will.
      In 2017, OK. Now ... not so much.
      Of COURSE it's an app. It's like calling a new car the KIA Elegance Car. As they said in the 80's - Well Duh.

      Managers succeed when they listen to others, and don't fall into the common trap of ripping down what was done by the previous management in a forced "show of power" to convince all that they have this under control. 

      In no way am I denying that you are smart, dedicated, or offering any other derogatory slur. I am, however telling you you need to listen to the large number of people who think your name choice isn't optimal. A name must be instantly identifiable. Your choice isn't, plain and simple.

      Look, I'm sure you are a wonderful person but you must learn to be more open to ideas other than your own if you expect to succeed. Without feeling you've lost part of yourself. That's not easily learned. ;)

      Thanks for your hard work here, it's appreciated! 
    52. Stormcryi
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      Why another manager?
      I'm starting to think you don't know what you're doing. I wonder why Seb left all of a sudden.
      Changing to Vortex was a major deal for me. Now we have to get ready for yet another manager?
      Hundreds and hundreds of mods installed and for what? To be forced to do all the work again?
      What comes after that? Another type of manager? Way to build confidence with your customers.
    53. SpecGaming
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      stop calling it an "app" when it's a program, and all joking aside with you swinging your third leg around like a lasso(for some reason), the name "nexus mod app" sounds like something a kid would come up with who uses their phone to much, and worse, as everyone else has already stated, it's going to add even more confusion onto the already dumpster fire of people who confuse Nexus Mod Manager and Vortex. like christ man, get off your high horse for one second.
    54. dacush
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      Hooooly sh**.  Did there really become this serious and long of an argument over.......the name?  The name is fine.  Nexus Mods App is a MUCH better name than Vortex.  It's all about marketing the app with the company.  It may confuse a few people coming back to mod again, but all futgure modders will have much less confusion.  Maybe I like Nexus Mod Manager better than Nexus Mods App, but who cares.  I can also see this sowing a ton of confusion with the current NMM.  Last point against the name NMM is that it implies it won't be anything but a mod manager.  Maybe there's future prospects of extending the app and integrating some of the site's functionality.  Maybe they'd prefer keeping that option open?

      Oh, and I wanted to respond to some ugly responses:

      @DarkDominion
      @1ae0bfb8,
       i can see that feedback that doesn't fit your perview isn't welcome. nice to get that out in the open early doors.
      Can't blame halgari for that, he's just an employee. It's how the company works.

      Both of these responses are baffling to me.  First off, it's just the damn name.  He responded saying that the name will most likely stay the same but they will keep your suggestions in mind in case things change.  You really expected them to just choose everything the small vocal community here decided to bike shed over and disregard their own opinions?  Secondly, yes you can blame halgari for that.  He specifically said that the name came down to him.  Not to mention they specifically mentioned above that they were (and are) given almost absolute freedom on the development of the app.  I honestly don't see anything wrong with his responses that have you all riled up.  Seemed like you were sugar coating by trying to point the finger at someone else.

      @DarkDominion

      @halgari,
      Open source works best when there are open contribution processes, and codebases, but firm leadership.
      +
      ' . . . after talking with many people, getting advice from leaders in the community " 
      I actually doubt that, but I'll meet you half way if you drop that "firm" in there, because just leadership in an Open Source Project will suffice.

      Back on the naming scheme : when was this an " open contribution processes " and who were these "many people"  because some of us seem to have missed that memo ?
      And who are these " leaders in the community "?
      Since when does our modding community have a, or multiple, leader(s) and who are they according to you?

      No offense, but you don't seem to be that informed on the management of open source repositories nor involved in the open source community based on this response and others.  "Open contribution process" is simply the allowance to open a discussion topic on an issue/bug/feature request and get approval from the maintainers to implement it and create a pull request when you're ready to submit your changes for review.  If you wanted an open contribution process for the name, it looks like you got one here.

      @DarkDominion

      Projects that are ruled by public opinion, majority votes, or the like tend to suffer from lack of cohesive vision. There needs to be someone who says, (as the old saying goes) "the buck stops here".
      " . . .  and there it is friends! the ugly truth ! " ~~ Heimskr

      Third sentence in and democracy is already down the drain. What happened to the Nexus being a modding community that is (like they always say)  "for the people, by the people" and it being open for ideas and suggestions ?

      Seems to me you're shoving words in his mouth.  Nowhere did he say the project wasn't open for ideas and suggestions.  I'm pretty sure he encouraged them.  But the team gets the final say, not the community.  Otherwise, what's the fuc*ing point of Nexus hiring and paying for a team that they specifically sought out for their experience and specializations?  Hate to break it to you but the "vocal minority" are not the majority.  They tend to be the community that are more involved in modding actively as a hobby rather than a quick solution, have issues they wish to voice (angry customers voice their criticisms vastly more than happy customers speak out with a positive review), and on common occasion they tend to have an arrogance they sway around with strong opinions that they believe is best for the modding community. I've been a part of the silent majority for a very long time, but the arrogance and pettiness in this thread finally got me to poke my head in.


      @DarkDominion

      " .... tend suffer from lack of cohesive vision ". . .
      That one really hurts man, you know ? Really....
      What is implied about this community, is that they will never be able to get projects and ideas off the ground because they are not able to form a cohesive vision on how/when/why a project or idea will be successful. Last I looked this was still a community of modders. How are they unable to form a realistic and shared vision on a project ? Isn't that what they do when they create or use mods ? I do not understand this at all.

      Over and over again, studies show that creating a cohesive vision is all about listening to others' perspectives. The only way to make a vision stick long-term is to make sure it is truly shared. That means it has to speak to the goals and aspirations of more than just one person. " (or some leaders)
      Just something I learned back in my days as a manager.

      Twisting his words to look like an insult to the modding community?  Really?  However, if you want to go that route I'll oblige you.  First and foremost, 99% of mods are made by a single mod author.  99% of mods are not discussed and collaborated between authors to form some sort of large vision.  Honestly, not sure what you're trying to say there.  Even patches for mod compatibility are requested to be pointed at the conflicting mod in question for them to resolve most times.  The only times I've seen more than one person work together on a mod is when a mod author "hires" a voice actor to come in "afterwards" and add voice lines.  SKSE is another example of a couple devs working together (except they kinda worked for Bethesda together anyways).  I've got two big home runs for you though. 

      1. 99% of mods aren't worked on as open source repositories with contributions.  They are worked on by a single person with their own single vision.  They may accept community feedback in discussion but the decision is their own. 

      2. Now I'll mention a mod that was and still is being worked on by a team of people (although not currently open source, assets and code are given to volunteers).  Skyblivion.  Truly ambitious project that always gets everyone excited when news comes out.  However, it's had a rocky history on getting things done, what tasks were prioritized, lack of interest over time, etc etc.  It's been under development since 2012 for a reason.  Scope creep, in game graphic asset priority over game and quest logic, assigned volunteer contributors taking long absences or leaving the team.  I'd say there was a lack of cohesive vision with firm leadership.  As the years passed and there was a spark of passion to work on the project again here and there, game assets had to be remade in order to keep up with the times on more than one occasion.  Side note here: This isn't a dig on Skyblivion, they've come so far and it looks incredible.  I'll be excited to play when they release.  

      @DarkDominion

      I was hired to make those decisions, and to bear the consequences of them.
      The consequence right now is democracy being skipped,  a real public opinion on this matter was never apprehended and pushing this makes it look like the future of the Nexus depends on it.

      And I think more people fear for all the other ideas that are yet to be conceived. Will they be handled in the same matter ? Because that really is the underlying thought here. I think most of us would like to have a good working product rather than a shiny name. The final product matters most.
      But if that final product lacks the shared vision of the people that use that product, said product will be used far less frequently if it is being used at all. So yeah, for now it's just a name for a mod manager... What else will be decided about this and future products ?

      We just want to know why it was decided like this and what was done in the process to come to this "final" conclusion ?  I think that these are the questions that people would like to get answered if you can ?
      And yes, the name will also be final. We all know that the name will not be changed in the future.

      Cheers
      -=DD=-

      The future of the Nexus does not depend on it.  They are doing just fine and have Vortex to fall back on.  The problem with Vortex was most likely taking too many opinions and implementing too many things that everyone cried out for (as well as a lack of good UX with so many options while also trying to make it simple).  I wouldn't expect any community polls that decide features.  I'm sure the team has made a lot of decisions already and know where they want to go.  I'd expect them to poll the community on aspects they are unsure on, or that are wishing to gauge community reaction.  I really don't understand all the misgivings unless it's all stemmed from......the simple name.  Be thankful.  They are open sourcing the application code with a good open source license and no charge.  That's huge and will help out future mod managing applications with the sharing of ideas.

      /rant
  3. SoulFlower776
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    For whatever it's worth: thank you to the modders and developers of Vortex for making my game experience (with mods) really a streamlined experience. I think this counts for more people than just me perhaps even those who may never endorse a mod or even those who to make a comment is a secondary or perhaps even tertiary concern i.e. those who never speak out but do use Vortex (or an other mod manager with no offense) and love their gaming experience.

    I came to Vortex, went away from it, came back and just noticed when I returned how functional and easy and convenient, streamlined and in essence: essential it is, once you get the hang of it. I must say that I've been using MO2 ever since I initially departed from Vortex but that hasn't always been a great experience in terms of the results, hence why I chose to return to Vortex and after using it I must say that I really have grown to respect, to appreciate and borderline to love it in essence and this is why I want to express my gratitude towards all people involved now and those from before. It is truly a special experience being a part, admittedly as a gamer on my side, but non the less being a part of this experience.

    Thank you for being a hub for all things mod related and for hosting the files for the games we love and making it easy for us to enjoy perhaps depth of games and in gaming that otherwise wouldn't ever be possible in this scope available now and hopefully in the future, know that your hard work is truly appreciated, developers and as well as modders, and ones who contribute to keep things running.
  4. Spawnandjesus
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    I must admit, it sounds straight forward, but it's a little unnerving to think of Vortex transforming into something else. It seems like we've only just gotten Vortex to the place and position it was originally intended to be in, and it's in a polished state. I still remember all the drama when everything was changing from NMM to Vortex, and now we're looking at potentially undergoing it again. Nexus has weathered its share of controversies, and some has been positive, some of it has not. My main concern would be the typical direction that nearly all companies go when they want to destroy themselves and turn their flagship tool into a flaming pile of garbage. I really hope I'm thinking too far into it. On the other hand, I'm amazed that my Lifetime Subscription has been honored... THUS far.

    I'm all for the idea of a redesign if it helps the company, I'm just hoping nothing affects functionality and implementation.
    1. NBKRedSpy
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      IMHO, It’s great that they are working on a new mod manager. 

      Here was my experience with vortex:
      installed, didn’t understand the whole game context functionality. Tried to install an extension for a game. The install failed, but was hidden with 5 other “info” messages in a drop down. 

      A modder had to write a Vortex BepinEx extension specifically for the game.  The most common modding tool for unity games… and it had to be written and approved.  

      At one point, the installs were not working. Uninstalled, re installed. It was still not working. Had to manually delete the user data. Reinstalled. Got it working. Still saw a bunch of blue messages,  at least it worked eventually. 

      I’m a modder and a professional programmer and it was still a difficult process. 

      So yeah, I’m all for a clean slate version. ;)
    2. thekissfan
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      Agreed.  Vortex never worked well for me.  Still using NMM after trying to move to Vortex multiple times.
    3. zoobxms
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      I have a tonne of games/profiles in Vortex, cloning them and hopping between them, it works good.
    4. zoobxms
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      sorry, i mean it's buggy and it explodes every now and then, but after 5 years of stockholm system IT WORKS REAL GOOD. *grins wildly* *tries not to cry*
    5. buggy364
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      So far Vortex has been great for me.
    6. Red2005dragon
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      I have heard about so many horror stories with people using Vortex(including people replying to this comment) but I have reached modlists in the 500+ range(specifically on Skyrim) and never had any issues with Vortex.
    7. 1ae0bfb8
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      amazing that all these people who had "problems" with vortex app have never, not once, not ever, sought help via the vortex app support forums.
      you'd think, if they were trying to get it to work and not succeeding, they'd ask for help, but, apparently not.
      weird.
      i hope the new nexus mods app works out better for you all, and i'm sure there'll be a support app available for you to ask for help, in addition to the discord channel on the discord app.
    8. SpecGaming
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      THIS, a thousand times this, NMM is simple yet it knows what you want it to do and it does that. no need for all of the fluffed up UI that vortex has baked in.
    9. SpecGaming
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      well most of us, who have tried to get vortex to work were hoping it would be like a "newer" version of NMM, meaning it's simple, lets you do what you want, when you want, and it just works. but instead you are berated by pop up messages when one file is slightly out of order even though it doesn't matter in the slightest. whereas NMM doesn't have that problem, and i've never had to google how to do something in NMM, it's always been very good at laying things out in a manner that tells you what everything does.

      And yet vortex has WALKTHROUGH tutorials when you first install and launch it, that's the first sign that a mod manager is far more complicated and over-designed than what it needs to be. anybody with half a brain cell can tell when a mod is out of order in NMM because you get a simple message saying (this mod is out of order, do you wish to launch the game anyway) and it lets you use YOUR reasoning to either fix it if it's obviously not going to work or just go ahead with the game anyway if you know that it won't cause any issues.
  5. davidcheatwood1
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    Why bother asking anybodys opinion if it doesn't matter and your going to do what you want anyway ?
    1. showler
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      The only thing that they seem to be firm on is the name.
    2. sopmac45
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      Correct .... unless you are a real programmer, whatever you or me or anybody say, has no meaning at all. 

      I personally do not give a damn what name they give to the next one. I just want to download my mods and play. Make it simple and automatic. I do not need to go back to NMM when I had to break my head thinking about which mod goes first and which goes later ... Vortex tells me when there is a conflict and I just need to trust its suggestion and it never failed me so I do not know what else do we need to make it run better but again, I am not a programmer so whatever they come up with, I just need it to be better than Vortex but again, I could live with Vortex forever and I will be more than fine cause I never had any problem with it. 
    3. SpecGaming
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      the community kept versions of NMM have no issues like that, it's quick and simple to use, and if you have something out of order and can't figure it out then all you have to do is export your mod list to loot and then export from loot back to NMM, although i've never actually had any issues with mods being out of order in NMM, every mod goes where it needs to in the load order and then you just run the game from NMM and you're good to go. works like a charm. unlike vortex who's UI is like someone looks at a pile of code scraps on the floor and said "yeah we'll use that instead".
  6. SpecGaming
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    I still personally prefer Nexus Mod Manager, it's just simpler and easier for ME to see what's going on. I've tried switching to vortex but it's UI and error windows when the slightest thing isn't EXACTLY as vortex expects, just completely pushes me away from it.

    I'm sure if I really took the time to learn every single inch of vortex then it would be serviceable, but for me, I just don't see myself ever using it. A simple ui that doesn't try to baby and coddle every step of the way is more to my taste, much like the community kept NMM, it's simple, but it also allows you to do exactly what you want without screaming at you that ONE file is in a slightly wrong place, it hints to you what's wrong and that's all I really need.

    and before all of the vortex "holier than thou" people come in and say "NMM is so outdated, it causes nothing but issues, blah, blah, blah" well just know that I, meaning myself, me personally, have had no issues that weren't the fault of me being either far too tired, or just having a brain fart when it comes to NMM, it's simplicity is what makes it great.
  7. avpn
    avpn
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    Hopefully this be closer to MO2 than Vortex?

    Yes, MO2 is a bit complex when starting but when you learn it, its great. Vortex was supposed to be MO on steroids as far as I remember the approach used to put it out. I tried to learn Vortex at the time but it was so frustrating I dropped it and never looked back. It may be better now, but the first impression killed it for me.

    Just make it efficient like MO2 is and not ugly fancy like Vortex is and its a good start. Really, Vortex UI is what probably breaks the experience for most of the users (it did it for me). Also, don't lock it down behind user accounts or even premium paid functions and don't put useless ads in it.

    Just my two cents.
    1. AugustaCalidia
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      Vortex has never been locked behind anything, and neither will its successor, as stated in the article.

      "Useless" ads are necessary to help Nexus Mods pay its bills and keep the lights on.

      You could eliminate these "useless" ads for yourself and simultaneously help Nexus Mods financially by adding a bit more to your two cents and buying a premium membership. 
    2. zalama317
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      That's almost exactly what I was thinking. Complaining about how you get a free service when the paid service is so cheap is ridiculous.
  8. lostintime
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    To be honest, naming your Vortex successor the "Nexus Mods App" makes Nexus Mods come off as very cold and corporate. IMO

    Is forced LOOT sorting (with the option to add manual rules) still a thing in Vortex? Haven't used Vortex in a few years and that was my main issue with it compared to MO2.
    1. AugustaCalidia
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      LOOT sorting was never forced in Vortex, because you could simply turn it off.  Your load order sorting options in that case were (and still are) setting rules via menu and/or a Vortex version of drag/drop and via group assignment.
    2. lostintime
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      Perhaps I am completely misremembering this. But from what I remember Vortex would not allow me to manually rearrange the load order of esps/esms but instead I had to set rules of what should load before/after others. Maybe I just did not understand how it worked, maybe it has changed since I last used it.

      Have nothing against Vortex, I just am sticking to the setup that is working for me right now (MO2).
  9. mudkipastaken
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    So Vortex support is stopped and we need to install vortex 2?
    1. Zanderat
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      Vortex 2 (or whatever they will call the new mod manager) isn't out yet. 
  10. DiealteEiche
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    Ergo, goodbye Mod Manager 2, goodbye all you better managers than Vortex.