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Grim Tales - A Princely Favor - Champion of Fenrir Book IV - Chapter 2
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Grim Tales - A Princely Favor - Champion of Fenrir Book IV - Chapter 2
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39 comments
I've always liked your take on Hircine. Interesting that he presents a different appearance to Elrindir than to Grim and Erik; I imagine an enormous Nord looks more intimidating to Elrindir than a tall, sexy elf would.
And I remember well when Despair visited Avrein earlier. Hircine is right to warn them about her! I also remember Elrindir's encounter with that "dark, brooding mercenary".
Still curious about Aela, but I'm sure I'll find out in time.
Anyway, well done, both pics and story! The Savior's Hide suits Hircine well in that Nord form, though his usual humanoid form seems more fitting overall. I like Hircine's black outfit, too.
Now on to the next...
What is happening to Aela is still a mystery as of chapter 5 but my next chapter, which I just finished all the images for last night, will finally reveal that mystery plus a few others.
Hircine was trying to "fit-in" more with mortals which is why he used that form. His normal avatar, with the pure black ebony eyes that can swallow a persons soul type look, doesn't go over as well nor the heavy thick ridges on his forhead or some of the other odd aspects. Still it is passable as long as not just hanging out in a tavern trying to slum around.
But as Grim noted his "new" form wasn't much better as it was still to large and imposing not to mention the armor stuck out like a sore thumb in a city - but that was all on purpose. He may be a bit more refined next time
I was mainly just experimenting a little with some ideas
The more I think about it, they will make a very effective team if they can get along together.
But enough to defeat Despair? I wonder...
I see the next part is already up! Off to enjoy!
Great work Wolf!!
As for Grim and her ... well he became friends with a Thalmor ... or ex-Thalmor. Course it took some work on Avriens part to convince Grim and Erik, with Erik being the most reluctant.
The opposite now as Erik is more receptive to Serana. Still Grim will try to keep a moderately open mind. Will they be enough for Despair? That remains to be seen. However they are planning for the worst and I think Hircine finally convinced Grim to not underestimate the Daedra!
Thanks for the comment!
As you know we have a very different vision of the Daedras, in my eyes is that Hircine and Sanguine, are represented so too sweetened and domesticated.
Sanguine, is the patron of the transgression and sin is has many similarities with the greek god Dionysus called Bacchus by the Romans. sanguine is not a god so emotional, as is the god of inebriation, of nefarious parties, brothels but especially the god of experience outside of the moral order. Paradoxically, however, Sanguine allows the continuation of the moral order and social. Sanguine is a violator only in appearance, as the violation becomes the exception, the escape valve that allows the tensions, repression of instincts not to let off steam in a destructive way. His feast is Saturalia, as in our world is the carnival, celebration that for one or more days subverts the social and moral order, to close a cycle and restart it.
No coincidence that the brothel is not subversion of the family, but rather the internal structure of the society that makes its continuation, as it allows the spouse to transgress, but avoid the betrayal that transcends from the sexual to sentimental much more dangerous. So Sanguine is a daedra enemy appearance of sentimental love, instrumental purposes, as it is not really an unconventional, but rather an instrument of conservative power.
Hircine instead embodies what Freud called "The Civilization and its Discontents ", that is, the appearance and instinctual animal that human society must repress, but always smoldering under the ashes like a fire always ready to ignite the world again. When Sanguine and its practices transgressive are not satisfactorily then the beast emerges with all its fury lunatic.
Hircine govern the natural order of the relationship between prey and predator, who escapes by nature human consciousness. as noted by the philosopher Hobbes, man is wolf man, not as it is also animal, but because he is human. is the human conscience that escapes the relationship between predator and prey, which leads her to his transgression because human consciousness tends to the divine. The divine transcends the order of the prey and the predator.
Hircine unlike how you represent it does not have a face, but a mask, behind the mask there is nothing, the nature behind the mask of its manifestations has no face. Give him a face is humanize it and tame it. The Gods represent the immense power of the unconscious, this power acts but can not be entirely incorporated by consciousness, you can not put him on the same level of men and reducing them to them. This is the essence immortal myth but also why in certain cultures like the Islamic iconography is banned. The difference between man and god is abysmal, some it is between consciousness and the unconscious. The divine is manifested in changing forms, sometimes it's just a voice, but above all as enigmatic symbols. A symbol is a generator of interpretations, but no interpretation never exhausted the power of the symbol. In your stories there is not an error narrative, but theoretical. You should not need to explain that to the end between deadra and man there is a difference, is the narrative that should by its function, reveal it. the problem that the narrative does not assume, and you finally have to say this, because in the narrative this difference has been lost. This is by me a very harsh criticism, but it is the risk of any iconographic representation. In the end the image becomes what it stands for, killing what it represents.
Of course this does not detract from the value of your stories, that I appreciate and admire and I always enjoy reading and are always a source of inspiration. This is a theoretical and philosophical problem in which even I tend to fall. for example, I enjoyed your interpretation of Hermaeus Mora, that I was rather too mollified. The chapters of the last book were simply magnificent.
Sorry for the criticism, I'm a pain in the ass, I know.
I do want to say that to me this wasn't harsh at all. I think the harshest criticism from you were the ones on the scientific terms I used in one story to describe disease and health issues as well as one where I didn't refer to the Altmer home land correctly. The reason being that those were things I totally screwed up on, in my mind, so was rather embarrassed with myself. But also why I appreciate the feedback as it helps keep me on track!
You may wonder, then, why I do not see this as harsh ... even when I think you are 100% correct - especially on Hircine. In fact everything you wrote about him (and Sanguine as well although not as much as Hircine) I agree with and kept nodding my head as I read it. While I never looked as deeply into him as you have here I do see him as our animal side, the predator and prey, and all the other things you described. So I can't take any objection to what you wrote about either of them as I agree.
So, of course, why do I not write them that way? Well that answer is why I do not find the criticism as harsh - it is because we are looking at them completely different. On a divine level, in human terms, is where I agree with your explanation (as well as other theories and ideas I have read about the nature of the divine from other philosophers besides the ones you mention - there are many views but I admit the unconscious aspects are among my favorite although I tend to prefer Carl Jung over Freud).
From a fantasy world and story perspective, however, I am looking at them very differently. I want to personalize them, bring them down to human terms. I enjoy viewing them as the ancient humans did their gods. Think of how personalized the ancient gods of mythology are - Norse, Greek, Roman, Celtic - they are filled with human emotions and petty actions. TES lore also shows the Princes in this sense - they have love, anger, hate, etc. They also mingle with the humans a lot - always meddling.
It isn't that I dismiss their divinity (and I am not even sure TES considers them divine - its vague - as much as just very powerful entities) its that I am showing them from the human side of things - the "mask" they wear when dealing with humans. Behind that tiny fraction is the immense aspect of their otherworldly nature. Although again I am not seeing them as you do in your stories. They are not merely constructs made out of the human psyche. These are actual entities that exist completely independent of humans or mer. They are powerful supernatural entities just like the Aedra are. They are not meant to represent the purely symbolic and unknowable human concept of a "God" here on earth.
Granted I break this a little when I write from their perspective, versus how Grim or other humans might see them. Humans will always project their own view onto any entity to try and make sense of it. They humanize things. But when thinking as Sanguine or Hircine to give them any human context is not ideal.
Yet I do so for the story aspect. As I said it is my goal, and very much on purpose, to humanize and personalize them to some degree as, for me, it makes the story more interesting. I am not seeking to explore philosophy or understand the nature of human existence and reality (something you do so very well in your own stories and something I simply lack the ability, and granted desire, to attempt myself). I merely seek to entertain and create an escape from the every day by writing high fantasy.
To reiterate - I really enjoy your comments and views and only wish I had your intellect and education to be able to write a bit deeper. Not for Nexus, but for a book - as then I would want to get a bit deeper into the philosophical nature of the divine even if still wrapping them into a fantasy context. I have a read some very good fantasy stories where the author did a much better job that I have here in making the gods both "human" as far as interaction while at the same time keeping them every inch the divine in scope and depth.
I think the best example was when a divine being explained to his champion that he existed on many planes of reality in many worlds and it would be impossible for the champion to ever even come close to understanding his actual nature. So instead he restricts his interaction with him to a level the champion can understand and deal with (to prevent frying his mind basically). Likewise must the author do this to some degree so the reader can relate as well (keeping in mind the entertainment context versus a text book context).
Thus Hircine relates to Grim and Erik on a casual human level as that is all they can understand (roughly speaking). I also portray him in writing that way to make it easier for the reader. Yet in the background is the knowledge that he (and all the Daedra) are something far, far more.
PS - I want to say again how much I love you explanation on Hircine as it fits so well. Humans are animals but it is our conscience that breaks away from the animal to the divine. It is what makes us say nature is cruel. It is what removes us from pure animal instinct and survival. It is what gives us morals, ethics, values. To give Hircine this aspect removes him from his role as the beast inside all of us. Yet, for me, in my writing, he is still this to some degree - but I personalize it for the reasons I explained. Of course giving him any sense of conscience at all defeats the purpose entirely - but again this is a mix of just personalizing for story telling purposes (even TES does not show him as raw animalistic force) and him interacting with humans in a way for them to understand. I don't think it means his true nature has to change - we are only seeing a small tiny fraction of who he is. I also tend to focus on those aspects of pack animals who can be protective and show some human emotions ... as recent studies on animal behavior have shown. Humans are actually not the only animals to have evidence of a conscience or emotion).
The gods do not represent the unconscious, but the unconscious represent the gods (or their symbols).
Wolfgrimdark, I must rebuke you for making excuses for the level of writing aptitude you possess. No great writer had always been great. I have written more than 60 books and articles, gaining over 250,000 reads/views online, and I have not received any profit from them because I did it for free. Does that. make me a great writer? I cannot say, because the answer is a relative one.
Every writer has his own style, and should not follow the style of another writer, at least not for the most part. When you go to a restaurant, do you assume that the enchiladas there should taste the same as they had somewhere else? Of course not.
So let your writing evolve over time. Go back again and again to be your best critic. Why? Because if you write the way the critcs want, you will begin to write like them. Observe what they say, however, but keep writing as yourself.
True inspiration is from the gods, and to them every true writer is connected, ) a paint brush connected to hand of an artist through which the universe is painted.
(Nice video. I think you will like MDB Beautiful Voices 019. I dare you to find it. )
I am speechless... You put so MUCH work into your stories and collections, I must say Jonathan, really nice work there
PS.: I love the surprised derp face of Elrindir
I had some fun with Elrindir as you can see - I happen to like his character a lot so wanted to give him some more depth.
Elrindir was probably very glad that Grim interrupted Hircine, drawing him away to speak to him and Erik, though he still seemed quite fearful. Was amusing how Grim teased Hircine about his illusions, saying that Sam could give him a few pointers on finding a form that fit in better among mortals, of course it was not too wise with Hircine's reaction, sending grim tumbling next to an amused Wolfgar.
It is good that Hircine advised caution in dealing with Despair, she is quite a different foe than what they have faced. I like how Hircine stopped the argument between Grim and Erik, telling Erik that he needed much more than bravery to face Molag's servant with her aura and telling Grim that he had to treat Erik like a fellow member of the pack, that he can have his role in covering his back, some wise words for both. Grim is going to have to look beyond his dislike for the undead in this task, Erik seeing what she could bring to the task at hand, speaking of the trust Dannee has for Serana. At least the challenge of the task brightened Grim's mood a little, it is good that he is fond of planning to face such a task. A wonderfully done chapter, Jonathan
I think Elrindir was just a distraction for the Prince as he has other things on his mind, like what is Molag up to. He is concerned for Aela but the bigger picture is what is Molag planning. So I think he enjoyed playing a little bit with Elrindir. I enjoyed it myself. I like the idea of of having someone meet their "deity" in the flesh so to speak.
Grim and Erik were both a little drunk which is why I had them acting a little more foolishly with their emotions - it was partially fueled by lack of sleep and alcohol. I expect they will be pretty worn out when they arrive at Solitude. Wonder if Grim will have any patience by then for Serana!
Glad you enjoyed the chapter and hopefully things will start to pick soon now that I have laid down the foundation for the story!
I admit, I do enjoy the chapters filled with dialogues more then action scenes, since i love to see how hero's characters are flashed out. Hircine's appereance in in was really epic, Sam would probably say that his older brother larger than life attitude could give a big clue that something is off with tall Nord man, who acts like he owns the place.
The dialogue between Hircine and Elrindil was very amusing! I remember how in Jess tale the Bosmer was very shady character and in Dannee's tale he was shown as cowardly, weak man who can be easily manipulated since even Sofie and Runa fooled him when they were looking for Thalmor spy in Whiterun. But given his not very brave nature, no wonder that Elrindil fainted from too much information from Hircine! I always enjoy to see such interaction between mortal and Daedra and it is common fact that hunters often asks Hircine for a luck in hunt, especially in such circumstances as Elrindil had faced when he was fourteen. poor man would probably need a vacation after such encounter!
Also it was very fascinating to see lads and Huntsman interaction. Grim was on a roll with his notions about Despair and Serana! it was priceless, when he was referring to first as overly depressed Daedra and to Serana as blood sucking cranky bitch. Sam would sure applauded Grim for such opinion of Serana since he has the same one! Interesting how unlike Sam who allows his buddies a familiarity, Hircine had none of that, so Grim was punished for his humorous notion about Hircine problem of fitting in... although Huntsman was not very serious about it, it was more done for amusement then as a result of his real anger.
Poor Grim, he is to be faced with opportunity to work with undead that he hates in face of Serana! Hircine certainly was amused by his reaction, while Erik seemed to have greater patience for Serana, since he is intrigued about her. I bet that given both Grim and Serana attitude that would be a long a hell of a road trip! However with Avrein grim proved that he can see beyond the person's past, so maybe he might admit that Serana is an oddity, a unique creature of her kind who preserved her humanity.
I will be looking forward for continuation and thank you very much for sharing your awesome work! Also thank you for the mentions of Danne, Sam and Sofie!
I think Sam might suggest that Hircine tone down the outfit to be less intense and more something your average hunter might wear. Also maybe reduce his height and statue but a good 30%. Not sure he can do anything about his attitude. He is predator and prince after all. Glad you enjoyed his interaction with Elrindril. I just wanted to give a nod that many people, through out time, worship/follow Prince Hircine and this was a chance to show his impact a little. I personalized it of course. One could consider that his followers simply draw on his general power (like getting a blessing at a shrine) when they say a prayer for a good shot - in the sense that he is the living embodiment of the hunt. Yet it is fun sometimes to have a direct interaction with said embodiment and I very much enjoyed writing Hircine among the mortals when normally he is very distant and aloof. Based on the in-game lore I think this is reasonable. He is actually almost chatty with you in the quest with Sinding and it is clear he can enjoy being amused and entertained by even a simple mortal (he even says so). So I think my story was very much inline with that.
Aye - I think it was only once that Hircine got really angry with Grim and that was during the Wild Hunt when he refused to kill an innocent bystander that Hircine said should die. They had an argument and Grim gave Hircine a mental punch o the face as it were. Hircine sulked for a bit after that. He also got his revenge outside the DB. Still Hircine is tolerant to a point - like a wolf parent will tolerate a pup biting at their tail or wanting to play. When they get annoyed, however, they show it - but it is only meant to teach the pup some boundaries.
You are right that Grim did see past the Thalmor for Avrein. Fenrir, his father, was chained for hundreds of years and tortured by the Thalmor. Grim himself was almost killed by them later. Yet Avrein forsaked the Thalmor and was forgiven by Grim and Fenrir. I think the question with Serana is the same one Dannee sees - Serana could forsake her association with being undead if she found a cure ... yet will she? So it is a tricky situation. Still Grim does not know about the cure or any of Serana's issues at all.
He knows a little about what she did in the past, her role with Harkon and Dannee, and that she has been accepted by Dannee and some other mortals. Consequently he is willing to give her some benefit of the doubt. But it is worse since he is also a follower of Arkay and Meridias Champion (yes he has a few roles as champion) so working with the Undead makes him nervous. Of course it is not all undead. Like Garm, Grim likes to help and bring peace to troubled spirits and even the Daugr. It is necromancers he hates the most and Molag for creating the vampires to begin with.
Thanks again for the comment and glad I was able to work with you on these stories. Starting chapter 3 tonight and may finish it if we do not loose power during the blizzard.